D
Dan_Parker
Guest
I did that here.
You did not reply to my entire post, particularly the part that answers that question. The commission encompasses all his commands. All of them.
Dan
Biblical Scholars: Are there any other examples of the Imperative tense in Greek in Scripture other than the Great Commission at Mt 28:19-20?
- Status
You did not reply to my entire post, particularly the part that answers that question. The commission encompasses all his commands. All of them.
Dan
P
PRmerger
Guest
Ok. First of all–how do you hyperlink a particular post like you did above? The only thing I know how to do is cite the original thread and then refer the reader to the post #. Thanks.
Secondly, I appreciate that you did answer the question. Why did it take a whole different thread and a diversion into this Greek thing for you to do so? I asked you where in Scripture the Great Commission was shown to be a priority way back on page 17 or 18 of the original thread…and you responded with all sorts of non-answers…only to give me the final answer which is: it encompasses all his commands.
Thirdly, if you teach all that God has commanded, then why don’t you teach your folks to start homeless shelters, hospitals, orphanages, etc etc etc? Where are the JW run clinics and shelters?
D
Dan_Parker
Guest
Ok. First of all–how do you hyperlink a particular post like you did above? The only thing I know how to do is cite the original thread and then refer the reader to the post #. Thanks.
**
Dan:**
Copy a URL into your browser. Then highlight a word or phrase in your text. Use the link symbol in the editor menu. The symbol has a chain link in it.
Secondly, I appreciate that you did answer the question. Why did it take a whole different thread and a diversion into this Greek thing for you to do so? I asked you where in Scripture the Great Commission was shown to be a priority way back on page 17 or 18 of the original thread…and you responded with all sorts of non-answers…only to give me the final answer which is: it encompasses all his commands.
**
Dan:**
I felt that what I posted was sufficient to prove the point I was making. It was only your obstinacy that led me to refine my argumentThanks for that!
Thirdly, if you teach all that God has commanded, then why don’t you teach your folks to start homeless shelters, hospitals, orphanages, etc etc etc? Where are the JW run clinics and shelters?
Dan:
I don’t see anything from any of your quotes that specifies that Jesus intended Christians to set up homeless shelters and hospitals, etc. You seem like a smart guy, but also one who likes to argue! I am sure if you put your mind to it you could argue the position that one can feed someone without setting up a homeless shelter. A good example that illustrates a way Jesus could have had in mind was the story of the Good Samaritan.
Dan
P
PRmerger
Guest
Thanks. But I know how to hyperlink/use the chain symbol thing. I just don’t know how to do it so I get a specific post. Every time I hyperlink I have to hyperlink a page (numerous posts show up) and refer the reader to a post #.
How do you get it so just the one post shows up?
D
Dan_Parker
Guest
I place my cursor on the post number (in this case #44) and copy the link (right-click >> copy link location) which is in this example forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5632537&postcount=44
Dan
P
PRmerger
Guest
Obstinancy? Really. I recall asking a question as to why JWs view the Great Commission as a priority and getting all sorts of non-answers–like,“I’ll tell you in the Greek!” (Irrelevant. Our understanding is the same in English), and “it’s a command!” (Irrelevant. We already acknowledged the GC as a command). And “because it talks about heaven and earth!” (So? Why does that give something primacy?) And, “it transcends time!” (So? Why does that give something primacy?")
Now, a completely different thread later it’s, “Because it encompasses all commands.”
Oh. Ok, then. :whacky:
P
PRmerger
Guest
Got it! Thanks, Dan.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Ya know…I feel like we’ve been having a conversation that’s analogous to below:
You: Can’t go to the Zoo today.
Me: Why not?
You: The Zoo is closed on Mondays. (true statement)
Me: Today is Tuesday.
You: Yeah, but the Monkey House is closed when it rains. (another true statement)
Me: I don’t want to see the monkeys. Besides, it’s not raining.
You: The bus workers are on strike so there’s no public transporation. (true)
Me: I wasn’t planning on taking the bus. I have my own car.
You: Yeah, well I was planning to take the bus. So my original statement stands true. I can’t go to the Zoo today.
Me: Why didn’t you just say, “I can’t go to the Zoo today because I have no transportation.” :banghead:
D
Dan_Parker
Guest
Actually the fact that it encompasses all commands was not part of my original argument because I was addressing the question why Jehovah’s Witnesses consider the ministry to be the primary vocation of a Christian. This was necessary because of criticism that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t pursue higher education for the sake of education itself or to advance in secular pursuits for money or prestige.
It was not until I presented this that you interjected that feeding the hungry and clothing the poor were also commands. At this point I brought up the context of Matthew 28:19-20 which shows that this command encompasses all the other commands is presented merely to show that we don’t ignore all the other commands just because we view the commission as our primary vocation.
So it is a bit disingenuous for you to complain that I did not provide all these arguments in my first post because you continued to add further counter arguments and objections which you also did not bring up in your original criticism.
Dan
P
PRmerger
Guest
But I asked another question: where do the JWs get the idea that the Great Commission takes priority. And you responded about the Greek thing. Right?
D
Dan_Parker
Guest
I continued to appeal to the Greek, yes, but the original thread was about why Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t allow secular pursuits to interfere with their ministry. At that point I challenged you to provide counter examples in Scripture and show that they were being presented as equally important to the Great Commission, but you continued to respond with general citations and no real contextual analysis of those passages as I requested.
As of now, I have gotten nothing from you to cause me to reconsider anything I have posted on the subject. If anything, I am even more sure that my position is solid and has had no serious challenge.
Ridicule and criticism, yes. Substantive counter arguments, no.
Dan
P
PRmerger
Guest
Yikes! I never ever ever want to resort to ridicule. If I ridiculed you I sincerely apologize, Dan.
I’m trying to see where you saw the ridicule, and the best I can come up with is the “whacky” icon.
I won’t apologize for putting that up–if I think something is whacky.
But I hope I never ever resort to ridicule.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Yes, but then other questions were proposed. You really ought to acknowledge that all of your answers were really not at all about the OP, Dan. Come on, now.
(Now, the “eye rolling” icon is not about ridicule. It’s expressing a sentiment that I assume is legit to present, otherwise the icon would not be available on this forum. Just like the “whacky” icon.)
We start with Scripture as the Word of God. ALL of Scripture is part of God’s Revelation. When one tradition (JWs) elevates one concept/ideology/verse etc, then it’s up to that tradition to defend its elevation.
I don’t need to show that all of Jesus’ other commands have parity with the Great Commission. The CC starts out with the assumption that ALL of Scripture is important.
Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely.CCC 102
D
Dan_Parker
Guest
In any event, it is good to see you have come around to my way of thinking, even though it took a while and I had to drag you all the wayYes, but then other questions were proposed. You really ought to acknowledge that all of your answers were really not at all about the OP, Dan. Come on, now.
(Now, the “eye rolling” icon is not about ridicule. It’s expressing a sentiment that I assume is legit to present, otherwise the icon would not be available on this forum. Just like the “whacky” icon.)
We start with Scripture as the Word of God. ALL of Scripture is part of God’s Revelation. When one tradition (JWs) elevates one concept/ideology/verse etc, then it’s up to that tradition to defend its elevation.
I don’t need to show that all of Jesus’ other commands have parity with the Great Commission. The CC starts out with the assumption that ALL of Scripture is important.
Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely.CCC 102
Dan
P
PRmerger
Guest
Well, it’s always good when someone agrees with the Catholic Church, imho!In any event, it is good to see you have come around to my way of thinking, even though it took a while and I had to drag you all the way
Dan
And, you ought to say that *you *have come around to the CC’s way of thinking, since we were here first. The JWs started…when? Sometime after the Protestant Reformation maybe? Or even later than that? Did it start in Jerusalem, where Jesus lived and died, or did it start in the US?
D
Dan_Parker
Guest
Actually, it started at least as early as the faithful Israelites:
ASV Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
I believe you have been trumped.
Dan
P
PRmerger
Guest
Do they really teach you to preach that way at the JW hall? It would seem not to be a very good evangelizing method.
I dunno…but I’m guessing when you’re preaching door to door that you get some pretty resistant folks out there…“I believe you have been trumped” is not going to convert anyone, y’think?
Do you have any examples in history of people who held the same beliefs as yours–like, the GC was the priority, that you don’t take blood, you don’t celebrate birthdays/Christmas–in the Middle Ages? What about as late as the 18th century?
Please provide documentation.
(This should be easy, as I didn’t even ask you to go back to the first century Christian–i.e, those who knew Christ and the Apostles, or to ask for anything that the ECFs wrote that’s specifically JW theology as opposed to Catholic.) :shrug:I
D
Dan_Parker
Guest
D
Dan_Parker
Guest
D
dj_dave
Guest
PRmerger; said:
*Please provide documentation. *
END QUOTE
The book Sacred Origins of Profound Things states: “For two centuries after Christ’s birth, no one knew, and few people cared, exactly when he was born.”
The World Book Encyclopedia says, the early Christians “considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”
Many Greeks and Romans of ancient times believed that a spirit attended the birth of each human and protected that one throughout life. “This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born,” says the book The Lore of Birthdays.
Providing interesting insights into this matter, New York Newsday of December 22, 1992, quoted John Mosley, who wrote the book The Christmas Star: “‘The early church leaders didn’t celebrate Christmas in December specifically to celebrate the birth of Christ,’ [Mosley] said. ‘It was their way of dealing with the winter solstice,’ the turning point of winter, when the sun stops its drift to the south and heads north again, bringing new light.
‘CHRISTMAS is outlawed! Anyone celebrating it or even staying home from work on Christmas Day will be subjected to penalties!’
Strange as it may seem, this actually became law back in the 17th century. The Puritans had the celebration banned in England.
Many Pagan traditions had been brought to Britain by the invading Roman soldiers.
*The Church attempted to curb Pagan practices and popular customs were given Christian meaning. Carols that had started as Pagan songs for celebrations such as midsummer and harvest were taken up by the Church. By the late medieval period the singing of Christmas carols had become a tradition.
The Church also injected Christian meaning (see 1 Cor 6:14-19)—into the use of holly, making it a symbol for Jesus’ crown of thorns. According to one legend, the holly’s branches were woven into a painful crown and placed on Christ’s head by Roman soldiers who mocked him, chanting: “Hail King of the Jews.” Holly berries used to be white but Christ’s blood left them with a permanent crimson stain.
The Puritan movement began during the reign of Queen Elizabeth in England (1558-1603). They believed in strict moral codes, plenty of prayer and close following of New Testament scripture.
the Christian Puritans suppressed Christmas celebrations in Europe and America.
As the date of Christ’s birth is not in the Gospels the Puritans thought that Christmas was too strongly linked to the Pagan Roman festival and were opposed to all celebration of it, particularly the lively, boozy celebrations inherited from Saturnalia. In 1644 all Christmas activities were banned in England. This included decorating houses with evergreens and eating mince pies.*
bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/holydays/christmas_3.shtml
The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics admits that most Christmas customs “are not genuine Christian customs, but heathen customs which have been absorbed or tolerated by the Church.” It was apparently felt that simply giving these customs a Christian facade would Christianize those who took part in them.
Some traditions surrounding Father Christmas (Santa) pre-date Christianity.
instead of Christianizing paganism, these customs paganized Christianity. During the 1600’s, the Puritans became so disturbed over the obviously pagan nature of Christmas that the holiday was outlawed in England and in some of the American colonies. Penalties were exacted for celebrating Christmas or just staying home from work on Christmas Day. In New England (U.S.), it was not until 1856 that Christmas was legalized.
Conversion was not to be accomplished by blending pagan and Christian beliefs. Paul, an apostle of Jesus, wrote to Christians living in Corinth: “You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons.” (1*Corinthians 10:21) And in his next letter to them, Paul added: “Don’t link up with unbelievers and try to work with them. … How can there BE harmony between Christ and the devil?”—2 Corinthians 6:14,15, Phillips.
Rom 10:3
NOTICE PLEASE
True Christians have something finer than non- Christian religious celebrations. They have the “fruitage of the spirit,” which is “love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.” (Galatians 5:22, 23) This fruitage produces a generosity that is much more beautiful and genuine than the “Christmas spirit” that blooms just once a year. God’s spirit produces kindness and unselfishness that can plainly be seen every day of the year. This prompts Christians to give, not with the hope of repayment or because they are pressured into it, but out of genuine Christian love.—Luke 6:35, 36; Acts 20:35.
JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES give gifts and have good times together throughout the year(Luke 6:38) Parents do not have to wait for birthdays or for Christmas, but they can bring gifts to their children at various times during the year. **This makes for many happy occasions instead of one or two. Further, the children know that it is their parents who are giving them the gifts, doing so out of love for them. **This helps to cement the bond of love between parents and children. Moreover, children are not encouraged to be unthankful to man or God, because of thinking that they are entitled to receive gifts on certain days.—Colossians 3:14.
Learning the truth about the non- Christian religious origins of popular customs can have a marvelous liberating effect. No longer do we feel obligated to follow practices that have proved to be a burden, financially and otherwise, to people of the world. And, most important, our knowing the truth frees us to pursue the course that is pleasing to Jehovah, so that we may find everlasting life in his righteous new system.—John 8:32; Romans 6:21,22…Why do police say it is probavbly the worst time for spousal abuse reports and suicide.
**
Just do a word search on thoses subects on Google and see for yourself**
- Status