Biden taking Pelosi, N.M. governor to papal inauguration

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By the way, does anyone know who Pelosi and Biden’s Bishops are?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I think that’s why theological debates become heated, and the reason outrages are expressed over other people’s sins, especially those so intrinsically evil. I have had the same reactions; then I remind myself, Christ doesn’t need me to defend Him. He sees all the wrongs, of each of us, public and private. He needs us to remember all the Gospel message and do as He commanded. Justice is His, and not ours. If we stay with what He’s commanded of us, we work according to His will.
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But Jesus needs us each to do our part and give witness to the truth. We have to stand up for what we believe when we see evil being done. I’m not sure who said it but all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing.
 
HansTrappist said:
By the way, does anyone know who Pelosi and Biden’s Bishops are?
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Nancy and I share the same bishop–Archbishop of the Archdiocese of San Francisco, Salvatore Cordileone.

I don’t know who Joe’s bishop is.
 
Sadly, I believe that Pelosi and Biden were selected for a reason…to show that many American Catholics do not follow the teachings of the Magisteruim. I believe that this is just another attempt to divide the Catholics in the US. Yes, as political leaders, these two need to follow the laws of this Country, however, they are called by their Faith to attempt to change the laws that go against the Laws of God and Nature, which they do not do.
 
Another_Mary said:
Nancy and I share the same bishop–Archbishop of the Archdiocese of San Francisco, Salvatore Cordileone.

I don’t know who Joe’s bishop is.
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You have a wonderful Archbishop and just the right choice for SF! If Joe Biden is still considered as a resident of Wilminton Deleware, I think it’s Archbishop Malooly (per my Google search). Hopefully they have had a word or two with their “lost sheep.” Nancy and Joe…time to come Home!

Lisa
 
Many prayers are needed. But, am I incorrect to state that we are also called to remind or bring attention to those who do not follow. In other words, are we not called to prudentially judge and gently repremand those who have gone “astray”? To call them back home?
 
cairo170 said:
Sadly, I believe that Pelosi and Biden were selected for a reason…to show that many American Catholics do not follow the teachings of the Magisteruim. I believe that this is just another attempt to divide the Catholics in the US. Yes, as political leaders, these two need to follow the laws of this Country, however, they are called by their Faith to attempt to change the laws that go against the Laws of God and Nature, which they do not do.
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Much as I wouldn’t put anything past Obama, I think they were chosen because Biden as VP is number 2 in the Executive Branch and Pelosi is the second highest ranking Representative as former Speaker of the House (that memory makes me shudder). Apparently the current Speaker John Boehner was asked but turned down the offer. I’m surprised there weren’t Senators picked as well…guess they finally ran out of Kennedys right?

Quite honestly I would have loved to see Justices Anton Scalia or Clarence Thomas chosen as they are both devout practicing Catholics and a Supreme Court Justice would be a nice touch 🙂 to represent America.

But you are right, regardless of the intent having two high ranking government officials who are not faithful Catholics attending the Pope’s installation Mass is a very divisive act.

Lisa
 
He was left out because he does not support the current administrations policies. Both Biden and Pelosi do. Does the priest have the obligation to deny Communion? I understand that they should not present themselves to receive, but does the priest have any responsibility in this? Please understand that I am new to this site…trying to learn…trying to understand…
 
LisaA said:
You have a wonderful Archbishop and just the right choice for SF!
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Amen to that. I’m sure Nancy knows how he feels and she’s probably been avoiding him. Or perhaps he’s already had a little talk with her? 😃
 
cairo170 said:
Does the priest have the obligation to deny Communion? I understand that they should not present themselves to receive, but does the priest have any responsibility in this? Please understand that I am new to this site…trying to learn…trying to understand…
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That is a good question.

I have heard that we have no way of knowing if they have been to confession or not before receiving. However, being vocal public figures supporting things against church teachings… Do they need to also publicly state a change in attitude?
 
LisaA said:
Much as I wouldn’t put anything past Obama, I think they were chosen because Biden as VP is number 2 in the Executive Branch and Pelosi is the second highest ranking Representative as former Speaker of the House (that memory makes me shudder). Apparently the current Speaker John Boehner was asked but turned down the offer. I’m surprised there weren’t Senators picked as well…guess they finally ran out of Kennedys right?

Quite honestly I would have loved to see Justices Anton Scalia or Clarence Thomas chosen as they are both devout practicing Catholics and a Supreme Court Justice would be a nice touch 🙂 to represent America.

But you are right, regardless of the intent having two high ranking government officials who are not faithful Catholics attending the Pope’s installation Mass is a very divisive act.

Lisa
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Speaks volumes about the current administration. Like many of their other actions in the past five years, it says President Obama wants God to bow down to him. That he values the state more than the Church.

I hope Pope Francis makes it clear, however he does so, that God comes before state. Some of the worst persecutions and disgraces to Western history came from putting state before theology - the persecutions of Christians, Julian the Apostate’s reign, the Inquisitions, the Crusades, the English persecutions, the Thirty Years’ wars, the* three *papacies of Pope Benedict IX, the one of Alexander VI, the Soviet bloc, the indulgence controversy and the Protestant Revolt…

We’ve committed our sins in the past, and I’m not here to condemn Obama. I am saying if these shadows remain unaltered, it’s a very bad sign Obama will continue the ancient pattern of governments misplacing their priorities and leaving well-intentioned chaos in their wakes.
 
cairo170 said:
He was left out because he does not support the current administrations policies. Both Biden and Pelosi do. Does the priest have the obligation to deny Communion? I understand that they should not present themselves to receive, but does the priest have any responsibility in this? Please understand that I am new to this site…trying to learn…trying to understand…
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If the priest KNOWS for sure 100% that the person presenting for Communion is not in a state to receive, then he must refuse them. The problem is that in most situations, the priest cannot possibly know whether the person has just repented, confessed, and received the Sacrament of Reconciliation from another priest. There is an element of the honour code.

The onus is on the person presenting himself/herself, as the Bible says, “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.”
 
GraceSofia said:
If the priest KNOWS for sure 100% that the person presenting for Communion is not in a state to receive, then he must refuse them. The problem is that in most situations, the priest cannot possibly know whether the person has just repented, confessed, and received the Sacrament of Reconciliation from another priest. There is an element of the honour code.

The onus is on the person presenting himself/herself, as the Bible says, “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.”
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This may be true for private sin, but public opposition to Church teaching by a public figure needs public recanting of having done so (ie a public statement that they no longer support or condone legal abortion in this case)
 
livnlern said:
But Jesus needs us each to do our part and give witness to the truth. We have to stand up for what we believe when we see evil being done. I’m not sure who said it but all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing.
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I think I said that and hope it’s not semantics standing in the way. We are to do our part, as He taught and commanded, with love and humility. We are also to pray. That is not standing by and doing nothing.

What appears to happen on these type threads are demands for what amounts to public humiliation. I actually wonder if some would ‘cheer’ at another being refused communion? Finding pleasure in something like that would be wrong on a great level, in my honest opinion.
 
LisaA said:
Much as I wouldn’t put anything past Obama, I think they were chosen because Biden as VP is number 2 in the Executive Branch and Pelosi is the second highest ranking Representative as former Speaker of the House (that memory makes me shudder). Apparently the current Speaker John Boehner was asked but turned down the offer. I’m surprised there weren’t Senators picked as well…guess they finally ran out of Kennedys right?

Quite honestly I would have loved to see Justices Anton Scalia or Clarence Thomas chosen as they are both devout practicing Catholics and a Supreme Court Justice would be a nice touch 🙂 to represent America.

But you are right, regardless of the intent having two high ranking government officials who are not faithful Catholics attending the Pope’s installation Mass is a very divisive act.

Lisa
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I agree. I’m not a fan of Obama but I just think that it just so happens that these two were high ranking officials in our government. I don’t think they were selected to make a point to Pope Francis/the Church. It is unfortunate that two of our highest ranking officials are dissenters of Catholic teaching, but the reality is that they do represent many Catholics in this country …but I don’t think we can pin blame on Obama for this.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I think I said that and hope it’s not semantics standing in the way. We are to do our part, as He taught and commanded, with love and humility. We are also to pray. That is not standing by and doing nothing.

What appears to happen on these type threads are demands for what amounts to public humiliation. I actually wonder if some would ‘cheer’ at another being refused communion? Finding pleasure in something like that would be wrong on a great level, in my honest opinion.
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People have responded numerous times that this is not what it is about but it keeps coming up as “public humiliation”. I think what you are sensing is a number of posters who are frustrated with the fact that these politicians have been allowed to receive well before this event. We shouldn’t even have to have this conversation. I don’t see refusing communion as public humiliation on the part of the priest. I see it as a consequence of refusing to listen to and disobeying the Church on the part of the communicant. If I made a point of publically disobeying Church teaching on receiving communion, I should expect to be refused publically. If I feel humiliated, that is on me, not the priest.
 
Lucky7 said:
I agree. I’m not a fan of Obama but I just think that it just so happens that these two were high ranking officials in our government. I don’t think they were selected to make a point to Pope Francis/the Church. It is unfortunate that two of our highest ranking officials are dissenters of Catholic teaching, but the reality is that they do represent many Catholics in this country …but I don’t think we can pin blame on Obama for this.
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No tempting though it may be :D. It is a sad comment on the state of affairs in this country and dare I say the state of the Democrat party that its most prominent Catholic politicians are so outspoken about supporting abortion. What a change in the last 50 years

The Kennedys made Catholicism acceptable in the highest levels of government. Read books about how Catholicism was seen before John Kennedy’s election and it was seen as a faith for Irish washerwomen and Italian fruit vendors. I don’t think we would have seen pro death veiws from yesterday’s Democrat Catholics and I put the words in that order because they see themselves FIRST as members of a political party. Now one cannot rise in the Democrat party without first putting away their supposedly pro life “personal” views. Worshipping false gods is alive and well in the 21st Century.

Lisa
 
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