Biden taking Pelosi, N.M. governor to papal inauguration

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BigBlueCane said:
Not true.
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From Catechism:

*The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation: *
*"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child’s rights."81 *

Exactly how does this teaching square with pro-choice not = pro-abortion?
 
BigBlueCane said:
Thats a disgrace because pro choice does not equate pro abortion. It is a perfectly reasonable stance to believe that it be legal but also desire it to be a rarely used procedure.
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It is not a perfectly reasonable Catholic stance, though.
 
Lucky7 said:
Exactly how does this teaching square with pro-choice not = pro-abortion?
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Because this is a legal argument in favor of citizenship for unborn fetuses which the government of the united states does not recognize. This argument is based on the fact that the church believes that a person is thus from the moment of conception. American law does not recognize that nor do they have the ability to answer that. That is how Roe v. Wade came into being. Those who are pro-choice recognize that while they may believe in Catholic teaching of the personhood of a fetus, those kinds of religious determinations cannot be forced upon the government and the entire society until the issue of “when does a person become a person” is medically and legally determined.

As a result, many catholics PERSONALLY oppose abortion. As a result of also being an American who would rather have a less intrusive government into private and religious matters, pro choice is the preferrable political stance.
 
Wedgewood said:
For some reason God is bringing this to the forefront immediately in Pope Francis’ rein.
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and hopefully to discipline them. I understand they are there to “represent the US” but I am sure the Obama likewise picked them because they are “Catholic” (CINO)
 
BigBlueCane said:
Because this is a legal argument in favor of citizenship for unborn fetuses which the government of the united states does not recognize. This argument is based on the fact that the church believes that a person is thus from the moment of conception. American law does not recognize that nor do they have the ability to answer that. That is how Roe v. Wade came into being. Those who are pro-choice recognize that while they may believe in Catholic teaching of the personhood of a fetus, those kinds of religious determinations cannot be forced upon the government and the entire society until the issue of “when does a person become a person” is medically and legally determined.

As a result, many catholics PERSONALLY oppose abortion. As a result of also being an American who would rather have a less intrusive government into private and religious matters, pro choice is the preferrable political stance.
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so murder which is what abortion is is OK? what a bunch of malarky
 
robwar said:
so murder which is what abortion is is OK? what a bunch of malarky
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For me it isnt. Hell neither is capital punishment. But the law of the US doesn’t recognize a fetus as a person and in many places around the country people can be legally killed.
 
BigBlueCane said:
For me it isnt. Hell neither is capital punishment. But the law of the US doesn’t recognize a fetus as a person and in many places around the country people can be legally killed.
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The law of the USA matters none in the least. You are Catholic and thus required to defend life. There is no choice; to be faithful to the Catholic Church and thus faithful to God you must educate yourself in the teachings, which you obviously are ignorant of, and follow them,

There is no option for pluralism for Catholics, there is only one truth.

Since you mentioned Hell, do you this hell is real? By the way, your Church deems capital punishment as not necessary in our society and therefore immoral; not on the same level as abortion but not an acceptable choice.
 
BigBlueCane said:
For me it isnt. Hell neither is capital punishment. But the law of the US doesn’t recognize a fetus as a person and in many places around the country people can be legally killed.
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Your post is confusing. In some states one can be prosecuted for killing an unborn child even inadvertently. So sometimes he or she IS recognized as a person. However the law does allow the DELIBERATE killing of an unborn child. How ironic!

That the US laws do allow abortion is not relevant to this thread OR to being a faithful Catholic. I don’t expect Mrs Pelois or Mr Biden to BREAK laws regarding abortion. But they do not have to so publically PROMOTE them. Further Mrs Pelosi either lied or is incredibly ill informed as I recall her saying that doctrine regarding abortion “wasn’t really established” and that there was room for different interpretations :eek:

As we discussed ad infinitum during the election a pro abortion candidate cannot be supported with your vote even if what they support is perfectly legal. Thus boh Mrs Pelosi and Mr Biden are totally inappropriate to send to the Pope’s inaugural Mass. If they were not Catholic and were pro abortion, it wouldn’t be nearly so disgraceful. In that they would simply be political figures representing the United States and as non-Catholics would not be taking Communion. In selected two VOCAL pro aborts who are “Catholic” to represent our country, it is a slap in the face both to Pope Francis and to all of the many faithful Catholics who should be better represented at such a important event.

Lisa
 
BigBlueCane said:
For me it isnt. Hell neither is capital punishment. But the law of the US doesn’t recognize a fetus as a person and in many places around the country people can be legally killed.
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Catholic doctrine teaches that if a secular law is immoral -we are not to follow that law.

You do believe in the Church laws over all other laws, don’t you?
 
BigBlueCane said:
For me it isnt. Hell neither is capital punishment. But the law of the US doesn’t recognize a fetus as a person and in many places around the country people can be legally killed.
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correction, there were laws in a number of states that outlawed abortion, it was the suprime court that did this. but then again the supreme court in the Drew scott ruling didn’t recognize blacks either so I guess that was ok too?
 
robwar said:
correction, there were laws in a number of states that outlawed abortion, it was the suprime court that did this. but then again the supreme court in the Drew scott ruling didn’t recognize blacks either so I guess that was ok too?
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Also the Supreme Court ruled that segregated schools were just fine…separate but equal…:eek:

Let’s just say they are not infalible.
Lisa
 
Cojuanco said:
I wouldn’t paint so broad a brush. Martinez, after all, doesn’t appear to have dissented. Perfect? Of course not. But she doesn’t appear to have caused scandal among the nations…
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Are you being sarcastic?
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
It is not a perfectly reasonable Catholic stance, though.
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Aren’t imposing restrictions seen as a good thing, though? Many posters (including me) rejoice when we hear that certain states are doing it. Just saying.
 
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