Bikinis are immodest - why exactly?

[Jennifer_J]

Couple of points…

Just because we discussing modesty on this thread, doesn’t mean those of us who have a stricter sense of modesty than others are somehow “obsessed” with modesty. I do play with my children when we are at the pool, however, I’m embarrassed for my 11 year old son, when the majority of girls and women are hardly clothed and their bikinis leave nothing to the imagination…I make the rules for what is acceptable for my children, I have no control over what anyone else wears, but you better believe that I point out inappropriate clothing on others and ask my daughters if the clothes are appropriate and why or why not…Sometimes I wonder if these girls and women actually look in the mirror? just because you “can” wear a bikini, doesn’t mean you should (if you know what I mean )

Also, those of us with a stricter sense of modesty have come to that conclusion because of Church teaching, just like you say YOU have. So why are we being told how repressive we are? Why are you allowed to call us names? Calling a bikini immodest isn’t calling YOU a name. It’s making a judgement about whether we think something is modest or not. I find it funny that can call a string bikini immodest or topless immodest (I mean, who are YOU to judge, right?) but if I say a bikini immodest, it means I want all women in a burka. Puh-lease!

The OP wanted the reasons some of us see bikinis are immodest. That has been answered. You want to wear a bikini, that’s fine–no explicit rule against it, so you say. But I ask you, if you met Jesus on the beach, would you cover up?

 

[Fran65]

I point out inappropriate clothing on others

Nice, do you point out the specks in their eyes too?? How’s that working for you?

So why are we being told how repressive we are? Why are you allowed to call us names?

I haven’t called anyone a name. I pointed out that telling others what to wear may lead to a totalitarian state - something that Church rejects.

but if I say a bikini immodest, it means I want all women in a burka.

I didn’t say this either!

But I ask you, if you met Jesus on the beach, would you cover up?

That’s up to me. Do I have to cite the CCC on the subject of individual conscience again??

Monica has it right - round and round we go.
You carry on pointing out the errors in other’s ways and I’ll carry on trying to deepen my relationship with God.
Pax
Karen

 

[embwt]

But I ask you, if you met Jesus on the beach, would you cover up?

EXCELLENT point!!!

 

[Litcrit]

But I ask you, if you met Jesus on the beach, would you cover up?

He saw me naked before anyone else, in my mother’s womb. He sees me naked multiple times every day, when I shower and change.

I have often thought about this sort of question, when people on other threads ask them in regards to proper church attire, e.g.: “What you would wear if you were to meet Jesus?”

And I couldn’t help but think I find the most proper… as in honest, humbling, hiding nothing… attire would be naked.

You couldn’t be naked in front of other people, but in a way you’re always naked in front of God.

Should I duck? Will you stone me?

 

[monicatholic]

Anyway, please have a think about the difference between saying that people have the right to make choices and saying that those choices are equal in moral terms. It is really important that you see the distinction otherwise, as I said before, you could end up with a totalitarian state - and it may define itself as ‘Catholic’, but it won’t be.

(Karen, totalitarian state requires power. force of law. a sympathetic military. i’ll let you know when i’ve got those details lined up. i think you’re torpedoing mosquitoes here.)

so you agree that all choices are not morally equal. and i agree that people have the right to make choices. so how does the Catholic exercise their right to make choices while choosing moral rightness? by submitting one self to the teachings of the Church. by forming one’s conscience according to the mind of Christ. CCC 1785 is relevant

please tell how you apply the CCC quotes you posted? your utilitarian approach, taken a few steps further would invest that CCC quote with the power to undo all of the rest of the catechism. your usage seems a misappropriation to me.

as a fan of Aquinas, you’ve surely found his perspective on women and resulting directives a little hard to reconcile with your view, no? ( fan as i am, his practical view of woman is juuuuust almost rescued by his teaching on the philosophy of woman and her perfect nature. i have to remember the historic context.)

in a nutshell, can you tell :
*whether or not your CCC quote abrogates all other teaching?

*if there is a way to convey unpopular teaching that doesn’t attract the usual suspects of charges: dictatorship, totalitarianism, nuts etc?

finally, on a personal note karen, your invitation for me to enjoy my children and to pay better attention at mass conveys a tone that approaches ad hominum attack.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Nice, do you point out the specks in their eyes too?? How’s that working for you?

Wow, I’m not allowed to teach my children modesty using real life examples??? I don’t say it TO the persons face, give me a HUGE break. You are being obtuse and you know it. I can discretely point out someones inappropriate “hoochy” outfit without downgrading the person. Don’t you ever see someone doing something wrong and talk to your children about it—you know, teachable moments

I haven’t called anyone a name. I pointed out that telling others what to wear may lead to a totalitarian state - something that Church rejects.
I didn’t necessarily point out the name callers, that would be rude, huh? In my house I am the totalitarian ruler on clothing, food and whatnot. I can’t tell YOU what to wear. The US doesn’t work that way. I CAN point out what’s acceptable and what’s not in our society.

I didn’t say this either!

didn’t say YOU did
That’s up to me. Do I have to cite the CCC on the subject of individual conscience again?? Individual conscience only goes so far. That conscience has to be formed correctly…

Monica has it right - round and round we go.
You carry on pointing out the errors in other’s ways and I’ll carry on trying to deepen my relationship with God.
quit judging me then…you know nothing about me apart from this focused conversation. You act like because I have a more strict view of modesty that I’m obsessed with it and I’m not beyond teaching my children what modesty is. You know nothing of my walk with GOD do you??? YOU are the one saying you are RIGHT in this conversation and that anyone not agreeing with you want to dictate what others wear. I don’t. I will stand up for modesty, however, because to just let everything be okay, we lead the way to great sins of unchastity, unpurity and so on.
Pax
Karen

God bless you as well. I don’t need to end with a jab at your relationship with God, though…

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Okay I’ll bite.

Men often classify themselves as attracted to legs, breasts, or butt. This refers to which of the body parts commonly associated with sexuality they find most attractive.

Bikinis expose the legs completely, and part of the butt. The tops also tend to expose cleavage. So out of the 3 most lusted after parts, the bikini exposes one completely and two halfway. That’s why they are considered immodest.

 

[SeekerJen]

Okay I’ll bite.

Men often classify themselves as legs, breasts, or butt oriented. This refers to which of the body parts commonly associated with sexuality they find most attractive.

Bikinis expose the legs completely, and part of the butt. The tops also tend to expose cleavage. So out of the 3 most lusted after parts, the bikini exposes one completely and two halfway. That’s why they are considered immodest.

Standard one-piece tank suits reveal most of that as well (if you’re not busty, you might not show cleavage but if you’re over a B-cup, you probably will). So I assume one-piece tank suits are as bad, by your standard.

 

[Jennifer_J]

He saw me naked before anyone else, in my mother’s womb. He sees me naked multiple times every day, when I shower and change.

I have often thought about this sort of question, when people on other threads ask them in regards to proper church attire, e.g.: “What you would wear if you were to meet Jesus?”

And I couldn’t help but think I find the most proper… as in honest, humbling, hiding nothing… attire would be naked.

You couldn’t be naked in front of other people, but in a way you’re always naked in front of God.

Should I duck? Will you stone me?

Litcrit,
No stones, this is a discussion, right? In this fallen world, I think meeting Jesus naked would not be appropriate. Would Jesus care? I think it might depend on why we were naked, huh? There is naked–getting in the shower, getting dressed, engaging in the marital embrace–innocent nakedness. Then (here are my southern roots coming out) there’s “nekkid”–skinny dipping with both genders (unmarried), streaking, non-marital sex, pornography–nakedness that can be sinful. Not all nakedness is equal. Not all clothing is equal in modesty. I don’t think it’s a bad spiritual exercise to think about whether your attire is would be acceptable for Jesus…certainly that’s just my opinon.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Standard one-piece tank suits reveal most of that as well (if you’re not busty, you might not show cleavage but if you’re over a B-cup, you probably will). So I assume one-piece tank suits are as bad, by your standard.

The more skin exposed, the greater the possibility of exciting lust. The fact that 2 piece bikinis resemble underwear doesn’t help either.

This really isn’t an academic enough topic for me to consider setting “standards” and ranking different types of apparel on how “bad” they really are. My advice to any woman is to carefully consider whether they will cause their brothers in faith to sin, and then act on those considerations.

Exposing the body in front of the opposite sex causes lust - I thought this was common sense. This whole “debate” reminds me of the Supreme Court case in which the justices were asked to define obscene material. Is Playboy obscene? Why? Is Maxim a near occasion of sin? Why? It’s just arms, legs, stomach, back, shoulders, etc… but add it together and you get most of the human body. And yes, the body is what men lust after, not just a triangle on the body.

I know immodest when I see it.

 

[SeekerJen]

This really isn’t an academic enough topic for me to consider setting “standards” and ranking different types of apparel on how “bad” they really are. My advice to any woman is to carefully consider whether they will cause their brothers in faith to sin, and then act on those considerations.

So sorry to bore you with matters beneath you (although you did choose to post here). I also wasn’t aware that women could “cause” men to sin- merely that we could present them with temptation to sin or be a near occasion of sin. Regardless of the sin a woman may incur for offering temptation, the choice to act on that temptation lies solely with the man.

 

[Jeanne_dArc]

He saw me naked before anyone else, in my mother’s womb. He sees me naked multiple times every day, when I shower and change.

I have often thought about this sort of question, when people on other threads ask them in regards to proper church attire, e.g.: “What you would wear if you were to meet Jesus?”

And I couldn’t help but think I find the most proper… as in honest, humbling, hiding nothing… attire would be naked.

You couldn’t be naked in front of other people, but in a way you’re always naked in front of God.

Should I duck? Will you stone me?

Do you think Mary would wear a bikini?

 

[Litcrit]

Do you think Mary would wear a bikini?

You are asking me to imagine the Annunciation to happen in the 20th century West? I’m confused. I wouldn’t think it wrong of Her to wear one, but I honestly can’t imagine it, any more than Her using a toilet, a cellphone, or watching TV.

 

[Jeanne_dArc]

Standard one-piece tank suits reveal most of that as well (if you’re not busty, you might not show cleavage but if you’re over a B-cup, you probably will). So I assume one-piece tank suits are as bad, by your standard.

If you get a high cut speedo swimsuit, this is not true. Speedo’s great, they have a lot of swim suits that are cute, and they tend to last a lot longer because they’re more chlorine resistant.

 

[edwest2]

Here’s my two cents:

1. (this is from the Catholic Catechism)

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

2525 Christian purity requires a purification of the social climate. It requires of the communications media that their presentations show concern for respect and restraint. Purity of heart brings freedom from widespread eroticism and avoids entertainment inclined to voyeurism and illusion.

2526 So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. Those in charge of education can reasonably be expected to give young people instruction respectful of the truth, the qualities of the heart, and the moral and spiritual dignity of man.

2527 "The Good News of Christ continually renews the life and culture of fallen man; it combats and removes the error and evil which flow from the ever-present attraction of sin. It never ceases to purify and elevate the morality of peoples. It takes the spiritual qualities and endowments of every age and nation, and with supernatural riches it causes them to blossom, as it were, from within; it fortifies, completes, and restores them in Christ."316
​

1. Also, suggest reading the book on this website colleenhammond.com/index.php. It says something about a study advertising agencies did and what men look at first when they see a woman wearing pants.

Having rationalized things for so long this all was almost a surprise for me…and I stress the word almost.

Thank you, very much, for posting this. The Church has stressed the dignity of the human person over and over. Feminine beauty can and should be appreciated, but a properly formed conscience will tell each individual if the reason they are doing something is right or wrong. This is another type of relativism that teaches people: wrong for you but right for me. From the Catholic perspective, there is modesty and immodesty. As the Church correctly points out, voyeurism or fantasy as portrayed in film and on television takes the humanity out of the person being viewed and turns them into an object. Celebrities and models are just people like you and me, though usually of exceptional good looks.

The current media culture has removed the idea of a glamourous woman and replaced it with the woman who treats sex casually, and is often presented in clothing that is, and I am just being descriptive, more like that of a prostitute. (Britney on the cover of People wearing a gauze see-through mini-dress. This at the checkout at a supermarket.) The media hyper-sexualizes. This is a bad thing.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Miles_Mariae]

So sorry to bore you with matters beneath you (although you did choose to post here). I also wasn’t aware that women could “cause” men to sin- merely that we could present them with temptation to sin or be a near occasion of sin. Regardless of the sin a woman may incur for offering temptation, the choice to act on that temptation lies solely with the man.

Your sarcasm is not necessary - I only said that I don’t think we need to be academic about this, setting “standards” and ranking different clothing in terms of “badness”.

If a woman wears clothing that presents temptation to many others, and does not have serious reason for doing so, then such an action is immodest and is not far from being a cause. I’ve given reasons for why bikinis are immodest and reveal parts of the body that tempt men to lust - that answers the OP, regardless of whether you would like to play word games.

By this point, anyone with common sense can understand why wearing bikinis can present others with temptation, and not further argumentation will do any good. Later.

 

[monicatholic]

would Mary wear a bikini?

you mean that same Mary, who was conceived without sin, who nurtured God within her womb, who prophesied at Fatima (though you’re not required to believe it) that certain fashions would be introduced that would offend Our Lord greatly?

that Mary?

 

[Teakafrog]

would Mary wear a bikini?

you mean that same Mary, who was conceived without sin, who nurtured God within her womb, who prophesied at Fatima (though you’re not required to believe it) that certain fashions would be introduced that would offend Our Lord greatly?

that Mary?

:bowdown: :bowdown2: :bowdown: :bowdown2: :bowdown: :bowdown2: :bowdown: :bowdown2:
What else needs to be said? What Would Mary Do?

 

[Litcrit]

Would Mary go anywhere without covering Her head?

 

[Marco_F]

What an interesting thread . . . probably the most interesting part (to me) is that in 5 pages of posts, it’s been all women posting with one (maybe two?) exceptions. So let me give my two cents worth as a man. I make no judgments on what people choose to wear or why. I just give you my thoughts as a man. Take it for what it’s worth.

I thought it was only men who didn’t understand women. This post has shown me that perhaps I was wrong . . . women also don’t understand men. Do men look at women in bathing suits and it triggers sexual thoughts? Yes. And when I say yes, I mean ABSOLUTELY!!! What a man does with this is up to the man. In my younger years, I searched for more. In my return to the Church and to the confessional, I try to distract myself with anything I can. I try to remind myself that yes, she is beautiful . . . a beautiful child of God.

In trying to follow the teachings of the Church, trips to the beach have become VERY difficult for me. Avoiding the near occasion of sin pretty much means avoiding the beach for me.

Do bikinis attract men’s eyes where they shouldn’t be? YES!!! The tops accentuate and say, “Look at these!!” The bottoms, as someone said in an earlier post, are a triangle. YES! Where does that triangle point?

That’s the nature of the suit. And truth be told, it has more to do with the suit and not the body in it. To you women who think you are not the one being looked at in this way because there are younger women with “better” bodies around, think again. The nature of the suit draws attention from men to where it shouldn’t be, regardless of how “unattractive” you may think you are. Your attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder . . . and I can assure you that EVERY SINGLE ONE of you in these bikinis are being looked at in this manner. Without exception.

Does a one piece bathing suit do this for men? Not nearly to the extent a bikini does. Not even close. I was at the beach last weekend and saw a young woman in a one piece suit. It really caught my eye because she was the only one. And I thought, “wow, this is a beautiful girl yet the one piece suit doesn’t draw the same attention from my eye.” I wish more women would start this trend. (And she happened to be Catholic, because I saw her make the sign of the cross!)

To all of you who will say that this is my/other men’s problem, I understand. I try to stay close to the sacraments, particularly confession, and always remember that Jesus said to look at another woman with lust in your eye is to commit adultery. I will continue to try to avert my eyes at the beach. But how many men at the beach will be going to confession afterwards? What do you think the rest are doing with their thoughts?

Something to think about, ladies, the next time you put on your bikini. I hope I don’t offend anyone, just trying to give some truthful, helpful advice. Take it or leave it. At least you know.

Interesting and well said, on the whole, but…

“But how many men at the beach will be going to confession afterwards? What do you think the rest are doing with their thoughts?”

Well, I go to confession on Sundays, which is normally not after going to the beach, but I never do much with my thoughts. Yes, I get aroused (very mildly - I have seen women wearing bikinis since I was a kid); yes, I had lustful thoughts (along the lines of, she is lovely! or, what a great body!). Then, after maybe a few seconds, I go back to doing what I was doing before, having a swim, reading a book, whatever. Not much of a big deal.

What I am trying to say is that I agree that bikinis arouse me, but not much and only briefly. It never even occurred to me to mention that in confession.