bilingual liturgies

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**I am having a problem here ---- probably my own perceptions but ------!!! I just came from Benediction after our parish day of Eucharistic Adoration (every 2nd Monday of the month). As usual, our pastor does the Benediction liturgy in Spanish. Our parish is about 50/50, but the Anglos have just quit going to Benediction, because it is done in the Hispanic tradition. There is the same problem in the morning Masses ---- half of the liturgy is in Spanish. **
Please give me some advice on how to avoid feeling resentful.
Thanks.
 
How about taking a Spanish class? Learning another language is a good thing. It’s very common in Europe, you know. I took it in high school and never used it, but I’m really trying to get back into it, particularly medical Spanish, since I’m a nurse.

P.S. Maybe someone in the Parish can organize a Spanish class!
 
I have very strong feelings on this. My parish has Mass in 5 different languages: English, Spanish, Italian, Kreyole and Tagalog. The purpose is, of course, to allow each to worship in his own tongue. Additionally, it is to celebrate our multiculturalism.

The end result however, is that we are now segregated based on ethnicity. We rarely have interactions (if any) with people of other backgrounds.

It also fosters resentment among the English speakers because 1) you have to work pretty hard to find a Mass in English and 2) most of the devotions are done in Spanish,i.e., Our Lady of Guadalupe, The Feast of Corpus Christi, etc.

To make matters worse, the church bulletin is 24 pages long because there is a separate translation for each of the five “communities”. What a waste of money.

Newcomers to this country need to learn English in order to assimilate and move up on the economic scale. Although the intent is surely to help, I think that in the long run, it misses a great opportunity to help people learn English.

ps: The Italian, Kreyole and Tagalog oeople all know English.
 
I too attend a fifty/fifty parish. One thing our priest pointed out is that in this era of parishes being closed and combined that we need each other. We have above 900 families. Without either the hispanic and anglo parishoners, there would not be a large enough parish to justify our remaining open. We really do need each other.

I have been attending there for about six years. I felt resentment over too much hispanic cultural influence at first. Time has helped more than anything. I have worked and worshiped side by side with a diverse group of people for these past years and they are my brothers and sisters.
 
What’s the other option? Should the priest double the number of services he has? Should he have an english AND a spanish mass in the morning? He has to make that choice and obviously he feels a greater need to meet the needs of the spanish speaking community. My parish is bilingual and some of our daily masses are in english and some in french but it’s much better than with our last priest who had no daily masses.
 
When this parish was started, in the early 40’s, there was a large Portuguese population. They came to this country, worked on the dairies, and learned English. When the Germans came, they learned English.
Most of the Hispanics attending these liturgies understand and speak English.
And I agree with Condon, who stated that it causes more, not less, divisiveness. The parish is becoming more divided on an ethnic basis.
It also seems to be an assumption that if you have an Hispanic surname, you must be impoverished and in need of assistance. If I were Hispanic, I would find this insulting!
 
Yes, but back in the 40’s the Masses were in Latin. The reality is that Hispanics like their language as much as English speakers and want the Mass in their vernacular. If there are enough of them in a given parish then generally Spanish Masses are provided. Mexicans are mostly Catholic folks, but are being lured away from the Church in droves by Evangelicals, who are friendlier. I think y’all better start learning Spanish. In Europe many people know three languages. It’s a good thing! 🙂
 
While it is true that learning to speak English is an important part of living in America, we have so many new immigrants that having Spanish Masses are advisable. Immigrants may be new and undocumented (i.e.,illeagal) but the Church must reach out to them as much as those of us who have always lived here. English as a Second Language courses are one way, Spanish language liturgies another way, and loving them as brtohers and sisters, the best way.
 
O.K. Point taken. I do try and be more understanding — especially as I am one of the cantors. I understand Spanish, and can sing it well. We do bilingual liturgies, especially for Easter and Christmas. It really is divisive for the parish as a whole. There has to be some way of bringing a parish together, rather than pulling it apart with bilingualism.
Anyway, thanks for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut.

All shall be well, and all shall be well; and all manner of things shall be well. (Julian of Norwich)
 
Bi-Lingual masses usually do not last that long, usually one or another language gropups vacate that mass and go to another parish.

Up till the 80s, there were “ethnic” parishes based on various ethnic groups and non territorial in nature. In many cities, there were Italian, Irish, Polish, Hungarian, Spanish and Portuguese parishes, before Vatican II while the mass wa sin Latin, the Sermon and when they re read the readings for the day in the pulpit, they were in that communities vernacular.
 
This is an interesting thread because I live in an area of my state that is primarily Anglo. But the state itself, both in this diocese and others has a large number of Spanish speaking people.

I personally would like to see all immigrants learning enough English to function as citizens without everything being translated. BUT, that said, the church is not the state, and we Anglo Catholics better either learn Spanish or get used to it because in not that many years the majority of Catholics in this country, I believe, will be Hispanic.

It saddens me to listen to what really is an elitist attitude in the church by many Catholics and most of those consider themselves orthodox Catholics. I had personal experience with that just recently. A family member in another parish and diocese made their First Communion. The communion class was evenly divided, or even possibly more Hispanic than Anglo. The priest (only one in the parish) had two other major functions being held in the church that day also. He chose to have a combined First Communion to bring the parish community together. It was bi-lingual although a little more leaning toward English. He also made a point to deemphasize ‘official’ clothing as knowing some who might not be able to afford what others have (and in the Hispanic culture the Sacraments are celebrated as a major life event), and wanted to emphasize the spiritual.

Well, of course the church was very full to overflowing. It was also louder than normal because of the number of people and especially the number of infants and children. I thought it was a lovely Mass, but evidently there were other, sadly older for the most part , and Anglo members who were irate. They complained about the dress of the Hispanics, about the noise and on and on. One member cornered Fr. in the sacristy right after liturgy and loudly berated him for not sending people out of the church who were dressed more formally and in clothing he didn’t approve of. But he went so far to demand to know why the priest did not stop the liturgy and ‘demand’ that they all be perfectly quiet or! I saw no signs of true disrespect among the people, even though it was obvious that there were people in attendance both Anglo and Hispanic that possibly did not attend church regularly.

I believe those there with First Communicants were happy and joyful to share this time with them. And believe the rest of the congregation should have shared in that joy. If someone felt something was wrong, there is a time and place, but sitting in judgment during the liturgy is not that place. I would question the spirit of those who were so angry and not the ones who were being judged.

Rant over! 🙂
 
I think bi-ligual masses are stupid. We have a universal language we can use: LATIN. This way, everyone can participate no matter where in the world you are.

When we go to Mass, it isn’t about the community, but about worshiping God. The masses primary function is not pedagogic. It is the sacrafice at the altar which is most important.
 
This has been a huge thing in our parish too. We have a large Hispanic population. Personally, I love them and appreciate their culture but I realize some do not. I have no idea what the answer is and I am not sure there is a specific right or wrong - it is determined by how things work in your church. We have 2 English masses, 2 Spanish masses and 1 bilingual, which often if the best attended (I think this is probably attributable to the time - it is the Sunday evening mass and so the choice of those who like to sleep in or who cannot make another mass and it is the one of the only Sunday evening masses for a large area.) Any large celebration we have (Easter Vigil or Midnight Mass) is bilingual. Some people really hate this. From what I understand, it is not only a lot of Anglos who prefer all one language masses, a large part of the Hispanics do too. If you go to bigger cities, like San Antonio, for instance, you see one culture churches - some parishes consist mostly of Polish families, some of Hispanic families, people gravitate toward their comfort zone. I don’t know if this is good or bad. But it would be impossible to have more than one Easter Vigil or Midnight Mass, so it seems that bilingual is only fair. I realize people should learn the language if they move here, but the Church is not the world. It is vastly different to worship in the language of your heart. I just think we have to do the best we can, be loving, and realize nothing is going to be perfect until we get to Heaven.
 
Dolly, there will be no need for Catholics who speak English to learn Spanish, mass and parishes for English speakers will be provided for, and it is a misnomer to think all Hispanics use Spanish as their first language. One parish in a diocese I used to live in was my guess at least 75% Hispanic, but only one of the 9 weekend masses was celebrated in Spanish. Many masses celebrated in English have a mostly Hispanic conregation. I also agree that Latin can be a unifier among the various groups.

Again, attempts at a bi-lingual mass usually fail, and minsitering to different ethnic-language communities in the Catholic church in the US has a long history that dates back to the 1800s.
 
JNB,

I said nothing about all Hispanics using Spanish as their first language. There is a broad range of Hispanics in this country, many having been here and citizens for generations and many, many new immigrants (legal or illegal). Spanish speaking radio and tv is well utilized by the Hispanic community I know. If the parish you specifically mentioned went to 3 out of 4 masses in Spanish because of the percentage in the parish, do you believe there would not be an outcry by most of the Anglo’s? I would suspect there would be and their leaving the parish possibly.

I know this issue cannot be separated from the issue of our country’s primary language. But regardless of what you or I think, the church’s pastors have to make the call that they believe God is desiring at this time, I am assuming. And to me openly fighting those decisions ‘looks like’ (be careful reading what I am saying) racism and a hierarchical system among the laity with Anglos on top, to many (regardless of the fact that our country is primarily English speaking). There can definitely be racism in the other direction also. I have seen that too. But my experience in watching and listening to Anglos, including those I knew to be Catholic, in areas where there is a larger number of Hispanics, there is much demeaning talk that is not directed just to actions, but to who they are.

The church should not be PC, but it is universal, although regional in each area. Latin is well and good for those to whom it is beneficial and is still the official language in the latin rite. But I have not, in all my years since Vat II, heard any Catholics raised prior to that time desire a return to Latin as the full language. I do not believe that will happen. If in fact there was such a desire and need, those who lived through Vat. II would have been the ones who fought the new missal. Only a small, small contingent of Catholics did so, many of them going schismatic. Most of the push now is from those who never lived pre-Vat II. Which is neither here nor there. But just saying over and over that Latin would solve the problem, in my mind is part of the problem.
 
meg said:
**O.K. Point taken. I do try and be more understanding — especially as I am one of the cantors. I understand Spanish, and can sing it well. **
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I too am a cantor/musician and I am jealous. In our bilingual Masses I always let one of the bilingual cantors take the lead.

Our parish has done English, Spanish and bilingual Masses since before I started there (six years). We have grown consistantly every year. I think food has been one of our great unifiers. (enchilada plates versus BBQ plates)
 
LATIN folks, suggest that they do Latin. It is one great way to unify all the diverse backgrounds into one roof.
 
Ideally everyone who lives in the country should speak English only, but that’s only if we live in an ideal world. So realistically we have to accept our differences, which include the languages and the traditions of people who immigrated to this country. As an immigrant catholic, I don’t see why it would be divisive to have masses said in the languages of the different ethnic groups. I truelly believe that only the Anglo catholics feel divisive. I surely don’t feel divisive when I attend my Sunday service in my own language. It is a great joy and a blessing to be able to hear and imbue the words of God. The bigger problem is not the language per se, but the attitude of the Anglo catholics that everyone should speak and think like them. This attitude problem is the same as the Protestants who say that catholics should be like them, eg., don’t drink, don’t curse, don’t party, don’t listen to Rock&Roll, don’t pray to Mary, don’t listen any man Priest, etc. As catholics, we are truelly united in one Faith and Body of Christ. We can be different but not divisive by our languages, customs and traditions.
 
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Iohannes:
LATIN folks, suggest that they do Latin. It is one great way to unify all the diverse backgrounds into one roof.
Click to expand...
A roof under which, almost no one will understand what’s being said. How is that a desirable thing?
 
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