Bill Donohue Must Resign, For The Good of American Catholics

[Soutane]

Mega . Like I said earlier, there’s a lot of confusing the messenger with the message. I find his arguments are quite well thought out and convincing.

I saw your statement earlier about messages and messengers and I liked it so much as a response to the poster who called BD a creep and Catholics potential creeps in the eyes of the world that I STOLE it.I figured you wouldn’t mind.

 

[sedonaman]

Let’s be honest, folks, and call it what it is. The author asks Donohue to resign because he is effective. Period.

 

[Joe_5859]

Wrong.Your personal distaste for the man matters not a whit.What matters is his effectiveness in defending Catholicism.The world thought Christ was a creep and crucified him for it.The world thinks Catholics are creeps anyway-who cares about impressing the world.Our fealty is to Christ and the Truth and to Defend the Body of Christ as stronly as we can and Bill Donafue is one of our most effective non-clerical warriors.Did you even bother to read the posts prior to yours?

ad hominum attacks are juvenile and to be summarily dismissed.I note that your stated faith of etc.has PLENTY of defenders:thumbsup:

In all fairness, I don’t think Phil Stone was lobbing an ad hominem attack. No where did he say that Bill Donahue was a creep, only that he thought he made Catholics look like creeps.

We don’t do the Church any favors by dismissing people’s opinions out of hand simply because they are critical of people we admire. I think it does matter if his presentation turns people off of Catholicism. Now, certain people will be turned off regardless and even innocent and charitable exchanges can be misconstrued by those who are wont to latch onto anything that gives them fodder to reject the Church. But I think it’s good to take stock of the effect of certain methods of defending the Church and whether or not they can be improved upon.

It is important especially to look at how non-Catholics perceive him. If Donahue only succeeds in making orthodox Catholics nod their head in agreement, then is that really a victory? The whole point of defending the Church is not simply to set the public record straight. It is to remove obstacles that prevent people from conversion. It’s not about impressing the world but about evangelization.

As I said before, personally, I respect Bill Donahue and the work that he does. But I’m not so attached to him to believe that there might not be a better way. If people (especially non-Catholics) have a problem with him, I want to know about it. Some people (like the author of the original article) seem to denigrate him due to their own preconceptions. But others (like many of those who have posted) seem to be genuinely turned off by his approach. I think we would do well to consider why that is.

That’s my long-winded two cents on the matter, anyway.

 

[miguel]

St John the Baptist wore animal skins,ate grasshoppers and honey and was probably covered in bee stings .He probably stunk to high heaven too,and probably was considered nuttier than a fruit cake by some of his confreres because of all of his in your face preaching.

St Jerome, renowned Church father, biblical scholar, and doctor of the Church, was also known for his feistiness. So take heart feisty people. Lukewarm? I don’t know.

I could care less about his personality.I tend to defend my faith vociferously and the anti-Catholic or anti-priest joke teller or slanderer at any gathering I attend will be dressed down and publicly embarrassed by yours truly.In addition to being personally devout I wear my Catholicism on my Tshirts and bumperstickers that may be considered tacky by some of my own tribe and seperated brethren,but so what?Jesus Christ was anything but a wimp and I’ve heard Him say some pretty obnoxious things in the Bible and even trash a joint or two.

He is not the only face of Catholicism.I am,and so are all the other Catholics in this world including His Holiness,and there are a lot of us who are obnoxious,irritable,crabby and aggressive,but we will defend Christ,and His Church to the death.What have you done lately to defend Catholicism?Oh,I forgot,you’re not Catholic.

He’s a rough tough two fisted Catholic,the only kind that the world takes notice of today.In you’re opinion he’s too obnoxious but I’ll tell you what,he’s OUR obnoxious Catholic and I and millions of Catholics are grateful to him and his efforts.In fact he reminds me of my late fiercely Irish-Catholic Mother who would brook no criticism of the Faith and who literally threw people from our home for insulting the Church that Christ instituted,sort of like what Jesus did when he saw His father’s house profaned.

The United States has a long sad history of anti-Catholic bigotry and Bill Donahue is but ONE albeit very effective response to it.

He’s a bulldog. I don’t think he cries wolf at all. He thoroughly documents instances of bigotry. Calling him a wolf crier is the same as calling him a liar.

 

[Soutane]

“In all fairness, I don’t think Phil Stone was lobbing an ad hominem attack. No where did he say that Bill Donahue was a creep, only that he thought he made Catholics look like creeps”

In all fairness I ask you to reexamine your assertion.The OP wasn’t saying Donahue is a creep but was making Catholics look like creeps?Your assertion does not compute,Friend.He may have not usedf the words "Bill Donahue is a creep"but what other conclusion can be wrought from the entire statement.I could care less if he thinks Mr Donahue is a creep-that’s his right and its my right to defend a man who has done more than any other non-clerical Catholic in North America to EFFECTIVELY defend the Faith.He just seems to rub some people the wrong way .Too bad,so sad,your,Dad.Would you rather have a tame Catholic,one who would go on the View and get Kumbaya cuddly with those Catholic hating witches or one who won’t put up with their slander and becomes such an irritant that they occasionally tone down the hatred.

We don’t need any more forelock tugging apologetic Catholics who tremble at offending anyone.We have PLENTY of those and they accomplish NOTHING.I listed but a fraction of his accomplishments.This thread is getting juvenile and junior highschoolish-i.e. "so and so’s a creep,I don’t like him,did you hear what he said…"Grow up people he might not be your cup of tea but let’s see your list of accomplishments in defending the Church.He is a household name in the US and he makes people think twice before attacking us or the Church.He deserves a medal.I can remember my Catholic Uncles,Aunts and Mother who would put Donahue in the shade when confronted by anti-Catholicism.That USED to be the norm,but everyone is so PC that wimpiness has become the rule.He’s a real Catholic and a real man.

If you don’t like him, DON"T LIKE HIM!!!But don’t dare denigrate his effectiveness or accomplishments…There are plenty of people I don’t like,some on this board but I RESPECT them,for their accomplishments or articulateness or argumentative skills and you know what ?I’d probably like them if I met them in person.It’s so easy to despise a caricature in your own mind.,

 

[edwest2]

I would like to point out that “Political Correctness” does not exist. There is no “Federal Guide to Political Correctness for All United States Citizens.”

I think the word brainwashing applies. Here is a non-official policy and so many people use it as if its tenets were carved in stone somewhere. Don’t pay it any attention.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Soutane]

I would like to point out that “Political Correctness” does not exist. There is no “Federal Guide to Political Correctness for All United States Citizens.”

I think the word brainwashing applies. Here is a non-official policy and so many people use it as if its tenets were carved in stone somewhere. Don’t pay it any attention.

God bless,
Ed

To the point as usual,Ed:thumbsup:

 

[Contarini]

The bottom line is what he does works.He single handedly through his coordinative efforts made Coors back down from sponsoring the Disgusting Public anti-Catholic Homosexual sex-in in San Franciso.

Sure, he wins some worldly successes through his lobbying methods, but that isn’t going to do any good in terms of the broader cultural climate. Anti-Catholicism only feeds on people like Mr. Donohue, because he confirms everyone’s stereotypes of Catholics as power-hungry people who can’t stand to hear their large, wealthy institution criticized and will use bullying tactics to respond to criticism.

St John the Baptist wore animal skins,ate grasshoppers and honey and was probably covered in bee stings .He probably stunk to high heaven too,and probably was considered nuttier than a fruit cake by some of his confreres because of all of his in your face preaching.

Indeed. But John the Baptist did not make a career out of badgering the Romans to treat the Jews with more respect. He did not yell at the pagans every time they suggested that one of the priests might be corrupt. He went after the evils within his *own *religious tradition. That’s the true prophetic approach. Mr. Donohue is no prophet–he’s just one more obnoxious lobbyist in a culture where making a big stink about being “offended” is the way you exercise power.

I could care less about his personality.I tend to defend my faith vociferously and the anti-Catholic or anti-priest joke teller or slanderer at any gathering I attend will be dressed down and publicly embarrassed by yours truly.

But he’s embarrassing himself, and to some extent Catholicism as well.

What have you done lately to defend Catholicism?

I spend much of my time trying to get Protestant students over their anti-Catholic (and generally anti-tradition and anti-sacramental) prejudices.

Oh,I forgot,you’re not Catholic.

Indeed. A sympathetic outsider may be the kind of voice that partisans like you need to hear.

He’s a rough tough two fisted Catholic,the only kind that the world takes notice of today.

Yes, you know why the world notices such people? Because they confirm their narrative. They don’t challenge anti-Catholicism, they confirm it. I don’t understand why you can’t see that.

You can see it surely in the case of Islam. When Muslims riot and smash things in response to the claim that Islam is violent, the rest of us shake our heads and say, “Wow–there must be some truth to that claim after all.” We aren’t *less *likely to think Islam is violent, though of course some folks are going to be afraid to say so. The more misguided and bigoted Muslims may think they have won a victory when journalists are afraid to print caricatures of Muhammad or whatever, but actually they’ve done serious damage to their cause

Of course I know that there’s a big difference between Mr. Donohue’s tactics and the physically violent ones used by some Muslims (though there are other Muslims who act exactly like Mr. Donohue). But the principle is the same.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Here are a few of the things Mr.Donahue has accomplished or co-ordinated.May we see yours Edwin?

Yes, you may. Here is a student evaluation I received this semester for a course I taught on Eastern Orthodoxy:

I have really enjoyed this class. I came into it having fairly negative views and stereotypes about Catholicism specifically (and this tricked over into my view of orthodoxy). I can now say that I see the high church traditions, as far more valuable. I see that a lot of their traditions aren’t that different from Protestantism. Far too often, we as humans fight each other and stereotype another’s views. I have realized how I have been doing this and it has been truly refreshing.

I have persuaded at least one Protestant to be less prejudiced toward Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Now can you name one anti-Catholic who has been persuaded to think more favorably of Catholicism because of Mr. Donohue’s actions?

Edwin

 

[Moro_Rock]

Bill Donahue must be really getting under the left’s skin when an apologist for the ultra secularist Huffington Post has the audacity to demand his resignation.Seems that they would prefer to deal with “tame” Catholics.Mr. Donahue,said,“no.”

Come on all you Catholics who despise Donahue for his direct,“uncouth” and oh so embarrassing ways-time to jump on the Huffington bandwagon.The most effective non-clericalNorth American Catholic to defend Catholicism

Thank God for Bill Donahue and the Catholic League…

Many Catholics feel Bill Donohue is making an important contribution of defending the Church he loves.
What is it about the Catholic Church which attracts criticism and hatred ?
What was it about Christ which attracted criticism and hatred in His day ?
The Catholic League is prepared to stand up ’ and be counted ’
Many others are lukewarm and spoken of unflatteringly by Christ in Rev. " I will spit them out of my mouth ."
We need a few Bill Donohues here in Britain and Ireland at this time.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

What we need is a hundred more men like Bill Donahue who are on fire with love for Jesus and who are willing to put themselves on the firing line and in the cross-hairs of the enemies of the Church.

We need many more people who can write and organize persuasively for the Church:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=471662

 

[sedonaman]

I would like to point out that “Political Correctness” does not exist. There is no “Federal Guide to Political Correctness for All United States Citizens.”

I think the word brainwashing applies. Here is a non-official policy and so many people use it as if its tenets were carved in stone somewhere. Don’t pay it any attention.

God bless,
Ed

I would like to believe it doesn’t exist, but unfortunately it does. Example: It has been said that racial discrimination is a bad thing, but the Left turns around and does just that by institutionalizing it to achieve “needed diversity” via “affirmative action”, which is itself racial discrimination. But that is OK because in their minds it serves the noble goal of diverse skin colors in the workplace, academia, etc. So while it denies a basic truth, it is “correct” "politically " to do it. The political part comes into play when someone disagrees that diversity of skin color is needed, but diversity of thought instead; he is politically ostracized like the kid who said the emperor was naked. I imagine the “correct” part has something to do with correcting perceived past transgressions by those who are of the skin color that is politically out of favor.

Brainwashing is a necessary means to PC’s end, which is revolution to facilitate the tearing down of the existing order.

Since we must all admire the emperor’s new clothes to be worthy of our office, even though everyone knows he is naked, the best definition of PC I ever heard is, “A crusade to ignorance.”

I hate to disappoint you, but it is something that we must pay attention to or it will destroy us. What will you say when the PC advocates demand you deny truth?

 

[sedonaman]

…
I have persuaded at least one Protestant to be less prejudiced toward Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Now can you name one anti-Catholic who has been persuaded to think more favorably of Catholicism because of Mr. Donohue’s actions?

Edwin

Did your student broadcast it to the world? I kinda doubt it, so I think this is an unfair question because if Mr. Donohue had persuaded someone, probably only he and that person would know.

 

[edwest2]

I would like to believe it doesn’t exist, but unfortunately it does. Example: It has been said that racial discrimination is a bad thing, but the Left turns around and does just that by institutionalizing it to achieve “needed diversity” via “affirmative action”, which is itself racial discrimination. But that is OK because in their minds it serves the noble goal of diverse skin colors in the workplace, academia, etc. So while it denies a basic truth, it is “correct” "politically " to do it. The political part comes into play when someone disagrees that diversity of skin color is needed, but diversity of thought instead; he is politically ostracized like the kid who said the emperor was naked. I imagine the “correct” part has something to do with correcting perceived past transgressions by those who are of the skin color that is politically out of favor.

Brainwashing is a necessary means to PC’s end, which is revolution to facilitate the tearing down of the existing order.

Since we must all admire the emperor’s new clothes to be worthy of our office, even though everyone knows he is naked, the best definition of PC I ever heard is, “A crusade to ignorance.”

I hate to disappoint you, but it is something that we must pay attention to or it will destroy us. What will you say when the PC advocates demand you deny truth?

The Left is closely allied with the International Conspiracy of Relabelers and Sign Makers.

Once the Left gets caught uttering something untrue or distorted by Christian standards, they relabel it. They create dramatic word combinations to catch people’s attention. They want us to adopt their word combinations as our own. And if we don’t comply, we are called insensitive, judgmental, not inclusive and so on. Example: gay marriage is now Marriage Equality.

I’m tired of them telling me which words to use in a particular situation or how to think. It’s not about ignorance, it’s about changing our perceptions so that something bad is relabeled to sound as if it is something good or neutral. Who could possibly be against Marriage or Equality?

I think the definitions are not so obscure that people miss the point. I think people get it.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Soutane]

The Left is closely allied with the International Conspiracy of Relabelers and Sign Makers.

"Once the Left gets caught uttering something untrue or distorted by Christian standards, they relabel it. They create dramatic word combinations to catch people’s attention. They want us to adopt their word combinations as our own. And if we don’t comply, we are called insensitive, judgmental, not inclusive and so on. Example: gay marriage is now Marriage Equality.

I’m tired of them telling me which words to use in a particular situation or how to think. It’s not about ignorance, it’s about changing our perceptions so that something bad is relabeled to sound as if it is something good or neutral. Who could possibly be against Marriage or Equality?

I think the definitions are not so obscure that people miss the point. I think people get it".

If one controls language and especially it’s MEANING one contols everything-it’s like the left read 1984,Animal Farm,Brave New World,Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?and the Road,and took notes and implemented the dysfunctional utopian methods of thought control and manufactured consent.

It is a quite oranized attempt to change the world into their own image because they take the"masses"(another great commie word)for passive ,narcoticised(Television,most media and the Tyranny of Niceness)morons they can manipulate into anything
and to a large degree for 30 years they’ve been quite successful,but now they see the light at the end of the tunnel and are revving up their machinations and in their impatience and overbearingness people are starting to wake up and are saying over YOUR dead body-sorry to be so graphic but there is a cultural war going on in North America that has the potential to devolve into physical conflict and bloodshed as there are two diametrically opposite philosophies or politicism that are so estranged that accomodation and peaceful coexistance will become impossible.

The intolerance and historical penchant for totalitarianism of the left is so apparant that even a blind man can see it.Once they can’t convince you they will simply force you-USSR,CHINA,NORTH KOREA,NAZI GERMANY,CAMBODIA,VIET NAM,ALBANIA,etc,etc,etc.The same thing has the potential of happening here and I’m not referring to collectivism or the end of capitalism.It’s when Christians are muzzled.Or Jews.Or Hindus.Or Moslems.

When our worship and values are changed by sleight of hand into HATE.That is the favourite epithet of the Left when they can’t get their way like in California when so-called same sex "marriage"was defeated in a plebescite.All who voted no became HATERS and people and places were abused and assaulted.

Just look at poor Great Britain where a Preacher was ARRESTED for calling homosexual genital sex sinful.The UK is done like dinner and we can’t let it happen here-I could care less Edwin if someone dislikes me for my Catholicism but they had better respect me if they know what’s good for them.One of your Presidents Teddy Roosevelt said," walk softly and carry a big stick".

I guess Mr Donahue doesn’t walk very softly but he does carry a huge metaphorical stick and he and I could care less who doesn’t like him and because of that he gives the enemies of the Church pause,and makes them think twice about cavalierly and trendily defecating all over us and the Church.

This isn’t a popularity contest-we are being persecuted as Christ was but most serious Catholics are so far beyond caring what the world thinks,because like Poncious Pilate it couldn’t recognise Truth if IT was standing in a puddle of blood in front of it.The world hates the Truth.The world hates the Catholic Church which is the Body of Christ,hence the Truth on earth.

The world simply hates us and it is pointless to try to engage the world without making it wary of reprecussions.I could care less what protestants think-they are PROTESTING simply by existing,I doubt many protestants hate us and its not them that I’m concerned about-between us it’s merely a family squabble.The real danger that Catholics and our seperated Brethren face is the enforced,legal tyranny of the religion of secularism.I have a great deal of respect for you Edwin but I really think you are wrong.You mean well and your heart is in the right place but the time is long past for begging for respect.Now we must simply demand it and if not given demonstrate the consequences to the bullies.Period.

Contrary to popular opinion Christians ARE allowed by God and His Church to defend ourselves as should all people of faith.We can’t hide any longer,we must give our persecutors the biggest,bloodiest nose(metaphorically speaking naturalement)it’s ever experienced.I started a thread adout 5-6 weeks ago called "For God’s Sake Let’s Do Something"Bill Donashue IS.And he should not have to do all the heavy lifting himself.Whoever doesn’t like him well as my 15 year old son would say,“sucks to be them”(no disrespect intended)

 

[edwest2]

I don’t think most people are stupid. I think they understand what’s going on. I also know people who don’t watch television, who understand the manipulations. For Catholics, our only weapons are prayer and a good witness.

Yes, there is a clash of orthodoxies going on, but if God is for us, who can be against us?

As I wrote earlier, the ‘good of american Catholics’ is not the point. The Left denounces those who tell the truth.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I would like to point out that “Political Correctness” does not exist. There is no “Federal Guide to Political Correctness for All United States Citizens.”

I think the word brainwashing applies. Here is a non-official policy and so many people use it as if its tenets were carved in stone somewhere. Don’t pay it any attention.

God bless,
Ed

You’re right.

But, didn’t there used to be a New York Times Style Guide, that told people what words to avoid and etc?

 

[sedonaman]

The Left is closely allied with the International Conspiracy of Relabelers and Sign Makers.

Once the Left gets caught uttering something untrue or distorted by Christian standards, they relabel it. They create dramatic word combinations to catch people’s attention. They want us to adopt their word combinations as our own. And if we don’t comply, we are called insensitive, judgmental, not inclusive and so on. Example: gay marriage is now Marriage Equality.

I’m tired of them telling me which words to use in a particular situation or how to think. It’s not about ignorance, it’s about changing our perceptions so that something bad is relabeled to sound as if it is something good or neutral. Who could possibly be against Marriage or Equality?

I think the definitions are not so obscure that people miss the point. I think people get it.

God bless,
Ed

Orwell called it “Newspeak”. I’m not so sure of your last statement, though. Even among the pro-life movement, we hear the use of the term “fetus” used to refer to a pre-born baby.

How terms get started and perpetuated is a mystery to me. For example, “happening” has now been replaced by “going down”, as in “what’s going down”. Who was the first to use it, and how it entered widespread use by the general population are probably lost to history.

 

[sedonaman]

…
But, didn’t there used to be a New York Times Style Guide, that told people what words to avoid and etc?

Sounds like an internal guide for their reporters.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

How many people here think it would be appropriate for the Pope to threaten physical violence against people, belittle people because of their nationality, and regularly make bigoted statements through the media? If not, why do you approve of Donohue doing it?