Bill Murray ‘misses’ the Latin Mass

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anthonymarie said:
If Hebrew is sacred isn’t that because it was the language of the Jews for so many years? I suppose in and of itself Latin is not sacred but for me it conjures up a sense of continuity with the past and separation from the everyday, i.e. a raising of the heart and mind to God.
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Yes. The language of God’s chosen people for over 5770 years!
 
Possibly Murray’s best religious message since …



Nobody steps on a church in MY town!
 
FYI, here’s an article that actually pulls all of the Catholic-related parts out of the bigger Guardian interview:

Bill Murray On 18th Century Saints, Pope John XXIII, & The Latin Mass

The Catholic Herald article missed a paragraph (and an interesting one at that):

“His parents were Irish Catholics; one of his sisters is a nun. This conspicuous religion adds to his broad church appeal (there’s a citation from the Christian Science Monitor on his golfing memoirs). You don’t need to ask if his faith is important to him. He talks about how 19th-century candidates risk not getting canonised because the church is keen to push ahead with the likes of John Paul II and Mother Teresa. “I think they’re just trying to get current and hot,” he smiles.”
 
Its gone for the forceable future. Our current pope has no great love for latin and I don’t think that there are any traditionalist papabile cardinals left.

I kind of agree with Murray. I feel like the uniqueness of Catholicism has decreased ever since we got rid of latin and dietary rules. By using vernacular we became much more similar to Protestants. Latin had such a rich history its really a shame you can only find it hidden away on the outskirts now.
 
boar2roar said:
Its gone for the forceable future. Our current pope has no great love for latin and I don’t think that there are any traditionalist papabile cardinals left.

I kind of agree with Murray. I feel like the uniqueness of Catholicism has decreased ever since we got rid of latin and dietary rules. By using vernacular we became much more similar to Protestants. Latin had such a rich history its really a shame you can only find it hidden away on the outskirts now.
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Do you think there is any chance of a return to Latin Mass or would there be people who would stop attending because they don’t understand latin?
 
7_Sorrows said:
Do you think there is any chance of a return to Latin Mass or would there be people who would stop attending because they don’t understand latin?
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Unless a traditionalist becomes pope its not going to happen. I don’t think the cardinals will choose a traditionalist which there already is a small amount of so no I don’t think it is possible in the immediate future. I don’t believe latin would chase people away, if anything it would starkly contrast protestant services with catholic ones breaking some of the indifferent and universal church trends.
 
boar2roar said:
Unless a traditionalist becomes pope its not going to happen. I don’t think the cardinals will choose a traditionalist which there already is a small amount of so no I don’t think it is possible in the immediate future. I don’t believe latin would chase people away, if anything it would starkly contrast protestant services with catholic ones breaking some of the indifferent and universal church trends.
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I wouldn’t be so pessimistic. When St John Paul II restored the 62 Missal and asked for wider usage in 1988, Cardinal Bernadin (of all people) ensured that four TLM’s be installed in the Chicago archdiocese.
 
boar2roar said:
Unless a traditionalist becomes pope its not going to happen. I don’t think the cardinals will choose a traditionalist which there already is a small amount of so no I don’t think it is possible in the immediate future. I don’t believe latin would chase people away, if anything it would starkly contrast protestant services with catholic ones breaking some of the indifferent and universal church trends.
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It will never go fully back, but I can see in the next 30 years about 5-10 percent of masses being Latin. After a few generations probably more, but I don’t see it ever being more than 25 percent.

Mind you, I would be VERY happy with those numbers.
 
ProVobis said:
Actually VS was an Apostolic Constitution, the highest level of decree that can be issued by a Pope. Theoretically, it had as much legal force as Missale Romanum (1970), for example, which promulgated the newer Mass. Unfortunately, VS was only translated into English and Spanish later (when it was too late), and even though it was ceremoniously celebrated, it was, as you say, quickly obscured by groups such as the ICEL, who were ready to jump in and translate the Mass, procure the copyrights, and collect royalties on them. These groups completely ignored Veterum Sapientia and Vatican II’s command to preserve Latin in the liturgy.
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Thanks for the above info. I’d never heard of an Apostolic Constitution. I suppose it was promulgated at a bad time, when there was a push to change to the venacular. I wasn’t aware that it was obscured by the ICEL. Do you have more info on this? I could just google it, though. It’s good that the Vll Council commanded that Latin be preserved in the liturgy, which is a good reminder that it’s the language of the Church (western church, anyway). 🙂
 
I love Bill Murray! I actually served him dinner one time about twenty two years ago, when I worked at a fancy restaurant in Monterey, California. He goes down there for the Pebble Beach golfing thing every year. I know a couple of people who know him, as well. Maybe I shouldn’t say this, but whatever: he was deeply involved in the Gurdjieff work for quite a number of years, so he’s very, very definitely a spiritual and thoughtful type of person. I’m curious whether he’s transitioned to Roman Catholicism. I hope so. I’ve known many Fourth Way people who have. Regardless, he’s quite secretive about his spiritual activities, so he probably wouldn’t say one way or the other. I do respect him and his work and his privacy, so I hope I’m not out of line saying this stuff. I’ve always suspected that a good many celebrities are basically skin deep and not particularly bright or interesting in real life, but he definitelyv does not fall into that camp… I’ll just pray that he lives a long time.:gopray:
 
Denise1957 said:
Thanks for the above info. I’d never heard of an Apostolic Constitution. I suppose it was promulgated at a bad time, when there was a push to change to the venacular. I wasn’t aware that it was obscured by the ICEL. Do you have more info on this?
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I read once where the ICEL had lobbied to have the vernacular clause included in the Vatican II documents. That might have been one of the contention points of the documents which Pope John XXIII never signed. There had been a lot of bickering over the matter, that’s for sure. The final form which Pope Paul VI signed off on commanded that Latin be retained in the liturgy but made the vernacular available on a haud raro (not rarely) basis. This, however, was biasly translated as “frequently” and thus work immediately proceeded to translate the Mass however they wanted it. Later attempts by the same Pope to restore Latin through Jubilate Deo at the parish level proved futile.
 
Exiled_Child said:
I love Bill Murray! I actually served him dinner one time about twenty two years ago, when I worked at a fancy restaurant in Monterey, California. He goes down there for the Pebble Beach golfing thing every year. I know a couple of people who know him, as well. Maybe I shouldn’t say this, but whatever: he was deeply involved in the Gurdjieff work for quite a number of years, so he’s very, very definitely a spiritual and thoughtful type of person. I’m curious whether he’s transitioned to Roman Catholicism. I hope so. I’ve known many Fourth Way people who have. Regardless, he’s quite secretive about his spiritual activities, so he probably wouldn’t say one way or the other. I do respect him and his work and his privacy, so I hope I’m not out of line saying this stuff. I’ve always suspected that a good many celebrities are basically skin deep and not particularly bright or interesting in real life, but he definitelyv does not fall into that camp… I’ll just pray that he lives a long time.:gopray:
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😃 I know it was just a silly character he played in Caddyshack … but Murray’s pitchfork wielding tale of caddying for the Dalai Lama on a mythical course on a Himalayan glacier - and the spiritual promise he received … just came to mind. :dancing: ** - fun-ny!**

" … total ***consciousness ***… so I got THAT goin’ for me … which is nice!"

youtube.com/watch?v=8x-nQ-vPw5k
 
7_Sorrows said:
Do you think there is any chance of a return to Latin Mass or would there be people who would stop attending because they don’t understand latin?
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I grew up with the Latin Mass. As a child I didn’t understand any of it. Many protestants saw it as the language of ‘magic’ and therefore of the devil.

Although I had 4 years of Latin in High School and can follow the Latin Mass with no problem, I prefer the Mass in English. The Mass is a dialog between the God and the worshiper. I can relate much better in my own language. I become more involved in the Mass.

I think it is a good idea that the Church uses Latin as it’s formal language because it is a dead language. Concepts written in Latin won’t change in meaning over time. As for making it a universal language so that people can follow along when traveling in other countries, well, the majority of people don’t really travel that much.
 
Exiled_Child said:
I love Bill Murray! I actually served him dinner one time about twenty two years ago, when I worked at a fancy restaurant in Monterey, California. He goes down there for the Pebble Beach golfing thing every year. I know a couple of people who know him, as well. Maybe I shouldn’t say this, but whatever: he was deeply involved in the Gurdjieff work for quite a number of years, so he’s very, very definitely a spiritual and thoughtful type of person. I’m curious whether he’s transitioned to Roman Catholicism. I hope so. I’ve known many Fourth Way people who have. Regardless, he’s quite secretive about his spiritual activities, so he probably wouldn’t say one way or the other. I do respect him and his work and his privacy, so I hope I’m not out of line saying this stuff. I’ve always suspected that a good many celebrities are basically skin deep and not particularly bright or interesting in real life, but he definitelyv does not fall into that camp… I’ll just pray that he lives a long time.:gopray:
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A close friend of mine was the manager of the Tap Room at Pebble Beach Lodge. (We had worked together previously at the Doubletree Inn). Bill Murray came in one evening (also about 20 years ago, or so) and said, “Frank, where is the band?” When Frank explained that they would set up once the tables in front were finished, Murray walked over and started clearing plates - “you’re done.” 😃

Everyone just laughed. Only Bill Murray could get away with that! He has an infectious sense of humor.
 
SWolf said:
It will never go fully back, but I can see in the next 30 years about 5-10 percent of masses being Latin. After a few generations probably more, but I don’t see it ever being more than 25 percent.

Mind you, I would be VERY happy with those numbers.
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When you say “Latin,” do you mean the Extraordinary Form (TLM)? I ask because the “Latin Mass” can actually apply to both forms. The Ordinary Form is a Latin Mass, even though it is usually said in the vernacular.
 
SunnyslopeIII said:
When you say “Latin,” do you mean the Extraordinary Form (TLM)? I ask because the “Latin Mass” can actually apply to both forms. The Ordinary Form is a Latin Mass, even though it is usually said in the vernacular.
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Extraordinary.

I have never heard the Ordinary Form in Latin and would like to though.
 
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