Billions of people have HD video cameras in their pockets: why aren't we seeing lots of miracles on video?

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He doesn’t use it, LT, because he, like William Lane Craig, doesn’t believe that God’s existence can be known with 100% certainty.

Just like the Church doesn’t use it.

Do we have certainty?

Absolutely. 🙂

Just not absolute certainty.
Again my friend, your assertion that he doesn’t believe it is without basis. Do you believe that the statement of the exact phrase “100% certain” is the only way to convey its meaning? That isn’t true. I provided ample evidence in my quotation that he indeed does believe it’s given the wording he used on multiple occasions which necessarily implies absolute certitude. And again, we already discussed why the Vatican Council didn’t use it. That was simply not the manner of speaking, particularly in an official document. And again I showed that Pope Pius XII taught it, since he tells us we can know with demonstrative certainty, and then I provided a definition of what demonstrative means in philosophy - a sound demonstration is necessarily perfectly certain. You might also note the very title of the Strange Notions article - “How to Perfectly Know the Existence of God”.
God bless you my friend!
 
For what it’s worth - I remember being taught that St. Thomas held that, if after having explained the proofs thoroughly (and well), one still didn’t believe, it became as pointless as “arguing with a vegetable.”

The key is that it is a SELF-EVIDENT proposition - “God exists.” Once you understand what is meant by “God,” which is “existence in itself,” the issue disappears. It is as obvious as 1 and 1 equal 2.

This does not mean that everyone is on board with understanding the word “God” that way, but it is indeed what the Christian means, as well as the astute Greek.

See the Summa on the topic… see articles 1 and 2:

newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm

And for kicks and giggles, here is Pascendi Dominici Gregis, paragraph 6:

“We begin, then, with the philosopher. Modernists place the foundation of religious philosophy in that doctrine which is usually called Agnosticism. According to this teaching human reason is confined entirely within the field of phenomena, that is to say, to things that are perceptible to the senses, and in the manner in which they are perceptible; it has no right and no power to transgress these limits. Hence it is incapable of lifting itself up to God, and of recognising His existence, even by means of visible things. From this it is inferred that God can never be the direct object of science, and that, as regards history, He must not be considered as an historical subject. Given these premises, all will readily perceive what becomes of Natural Theology, of the motives of credibility, of external revelation. The Modernists simply make away with them altogether; they include them in Intellectualism, which they call a ridiculous and long ago defunct system. Nor does the fact that the Church has formally condemned these portentous errors exercise the slightest restraint upon them. Yet the Vatican Council has defined, “If anyone says that the one true God, our Creator and Lord, cannot be known with certainty by the natural light of human reason by means of the things that are made, let him be anathema” (De Revel., can. I)…”
 
e_c, I thank you for your consistently intelligent and insightful posts.
May God bless you my friend!
 
For the people asking me to specify the various contradictions in Catholicism and Christianity in general: I won’t do that here. I would potentially start a thread about it, but I’m not particularly interested in that subject. Philosophical puzzles and controversies are interesting to me, but the long history of doctrinal confusion and disagreement is not particularly compelling to me anymore. “Let the dead bury their dead” as Jesus says! 👍

If you want to do your own research, check out:
  1. Usury
  2. extra ecclesiam nulla salus, read the Athanasian creed then Lumen Gentium
  3. the Pelagian controversy and the development of Augustinian “original sin”, also the requirement of baptism for salvation and status of children who die prior to baptism
  4. religious freedom and whether the Church teaches that it is laudable
  5. what kind of bread must be used for the Eucharist
  6. the proper baptismal formula and ritual
  7. the Church’s changing attitude toward Jews
  8. whether interior conscience is supreme
Of course, there is a long tradition of casuistry, sloppy history, and (frankly) misrepresentation on the part of apologists who try to harmonize the blatant contradictions arising from these issues. The professionals who draw a salary and devote their lives to the legitimacy of the RCC’s claims will of course argue until they’re red in the face that the Church has never contradicted itself. But, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. And oh boy, the smoke is suffocating…
 
For the people asking me to specify the various contradictions in Catholicism and Christianity in general: I won’t do that here. I would potentially start a thread about it, but I’m not particularly interested in that subject. Philosophical puzzles and controversies are interesting to me, but the long history of doctrinal confusion and disagreement is not particularly compelling to me anymore. “Let the dead bury their dead” as Jesus says! 👍

If you want to do your own research, check out:
  1. Usury
  2. extra ecclesiam nulla salus, read the Athanasian creed then Lumen Gentium
  3. the Pelagian controversy and the development of Augustinian “original sin”, also the requirement of baptism for salvation and status of children who die prior to baptism
  4. religious freedom and whether the Church teaches that it is laudable
  5. what kind of bread must be used for the Eucharist
  6. the proper baptismal formula and ritual
  7. the Church’s changing attitude toward Jews
  8. whether interior conscience is supreme
Of course, there is a long tradition of casuistry, sloppy history, and (frankly) misrepresentation on the part of apologists who try to harmonize the blatant contradictions arising from these issues. The professionals who draw a salary and devote their lives to the legitimacy of the RCC’s claims will of course argue until they’re red in the face that the Church has never contradicted itself. But, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. And oh boy, the smoke is suffocating…
The only mildly threatening claim is, as I’ve said several times, usury. It just requires making the right distinctions and picking up on the subtleties, etc., which in this case takes some care. The rest are pretty ho-hum… they don’t require nearly as much work.

Remember that common opinions in the Church, and even official looking documents, do NOT rise to the level of “de fide.” There are what are called “theological notes.” I bet that is the first time you have ever heard of that expression. That’s a problem for someone making these claims.

I invite you to start threads galore, but be willing to learn.
 
the only mildly threatening claim is, as i’ve said several times, usury. It just requires making a lot of -]distinctions/-] misrepresentations.the rest are pretty ho-hum… They only require a few distinctions.

Feel free to start threads galore, but be willing to learn.
fixed that for you. 😉
 
If I said “goyim,” can you tell me how it relates to usury? Don’t google.

If not, you aren’t hip to some stuff, my friend.
LOL. I know that there are all kinds of laws allowing gentiles to engage in practices not allowable for Jews including lending at interest.

What does Basil have to say about it? Don’t google. 😉
 
LOL. I know that there are all kinds of laws allowing gentiles to engage in practices not allowable for Jews including lending at interest.

What does Basil have to say about it? Don’t google. 😉
Nope, you missed it.

I don’t know what Basil has to say precisely, but the Fathers condemn the same practice which is condemned now, which is a practice that is distinct from the mere collection of interest.
 
And thank you for your consistently charitable and humble posts! That is far more important! Keep it up. 👍
Thank you my friend, I deeply appreciate that. Humility is something I need to work on, so thank you. 🙂
As always, may God bless you abundantly!
 
Nope, you missed it.

I don’t know what Basil has to say precisely, but the Fathers condemn the same practice which is condemned now, which is a practice that is distinct from the mere collection of interest.
Well I’m not going to discuss racist conspiracy theories about Jews and Rothschilds or any of that other nonsense, if that’s what you’re hinting at.

I know that Jewish law discusses the permissible relations between Jews and Gentiles, and I know that many Jewish teachers believed that it was acceptable for Gentiles to engage in all kinds of practices that were not acceptable to Jews, not just financial but dietary, sexual, organizational, etc. I know the Torah itself shows that it is ok for Jews to lend at interest to Gentiles but not to each other. That’s OK, I don’t believe it is God’s infallible word, but rather an ancient culture’s understanding of God.

Why don’t you enlighten me then, about your knowledge of the relation of “goyim” and “usury.”

And you’re right, the Church has always been against usury, that has never changed. They did change the definition of the very word, however, which is functionally the same as changing the teaching.
 
Coincidentally, how many kinds of interest are there? And how has the nature of economic systems changed from the time of the Cappadocian Fathers that would alter the nature of money as related to property?

These aren’t simple things. If you treat a Saturn V like a ball point pen, you will encounter problems.
 
Just ran into this site…

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

Thought it was interesting and appropriate for this thread.

Take care,

mike
Yes, that is an excellent site. Not only does it supply us with detailed information on scientifically proven Eucharistic miracles, but it collects the numerous works of Father John Hardon, a prolific and faithful writer who is being considered for beatification! I certainly hope he is beatified.
God bless you my friend!
 
The literature of the ancient world is full of fantastic miracles. Not only in religious texts, but the foundational narratives of all civilizations contain references to many miraculous and wondrous events. Humans turning into animals, witches, spells, griffins, centaurs, resurrections, healings, angels, giants, trolls, magic, nymphs, and all manner of supernatural and magical creatures and events fill our ancient texts. In various religious traditions we have numerous accounts of miracles attributed to saints, Jesus, Mary, the 12 Imams, various avatars of Krishna, etc.

So…why did all of these fantastic things just…stop? There are billions of people walking around with HD video cameras in their pockets (phones). At any moment, anywhere in the world, there is a high probability that an event can be captured on video and uploaded to the internet within minutes. Not only do billions of people have cameras, but we have cameras orbiting our planet taking pictures of it continuously. Not only that, but there are security cameras all over the developed world.

This has revolutionized criminal justice, international relations, and the entire world economy. If miracles happened at all, it seems likely that at least some would be recorded in real time and uploaded to the internet, doesn’t it?

Imagine if Fatima happened today! If the same events happened today, our satellites could capture it, and the thousands of witnesses would have video from thousands of angles. People across the world would see the video and immediately convert to Catholicism. Imagine if just one person were able to speak “in tongues” on video and everyone in the world understood that person in their native languages simultaneously and miraculously.

So…where are these miracles? Why the total silence?
Oh, so glad you asked!

youtube.com/watch?v=nMEWxRB-1dc

google.com/search?q=our+lady+of+zeitoun+egypt&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=844&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH_tubpsTOAhUB22MKHcv8DIoQsAQIPA&dpr=1
 
There it is.

Yes, the word changed meaning because what it applied to (economics) changed… Quite radically.

Start a new thread if you want. Or read a few articles. There is simply not a contradiction, just a knot to untangle. Here’s a start:

newadvent.org/cathen/08077a.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/15235c.htm
newadvent.org/summa/3078.htm
Incidentally, there is a whole body of Jewish law and Rabbinic opinion concerning Gentiles. Check out amazon.com/Divine-Code-Rabbi-Moshe-Weiner/dp/0981481124

The above book is a good guide to the dialogue on this subject for that tradition.

Look, this thread isn’t the place to debate this particular controversy. You’re right, the rabbit hole on this one is deep and can be technical. I’ve been down this road before and am convinced the Church has contradicted itself by changing the referent of the word “interest.” I will examine new evidence, and I will read those articles.

We wouldn’t even be arguing about these things if the Catholic Church had solid evidence to back up its claim to speak with the voice of God. And so we’re back to the topic: where are the signs and miracles Jesus promised to his followers? There are more Christians and more cameras right now than ever before in history. And not one bona-fide miracle captured on video by now? :hmmm:
 
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