Bin Laden offers Americans truce

[beckers]

english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/593298A0-3C1A-4EB4-B29D-EA1A9678D922.htm

My only problem with this tape is it sounds nothing like his old stuff…a Truce from him??? Seems unbelieveable.

Quotes:

"But what triggered my desire to talk to you is the continuous deliberate misinformation given by your President [George] Bush, when it comes to polls made in your home country which reveal that the majority of your people are willing to withdraw US forces from Iraq.

"We know that the majority of your people want this war to end and opinion polls show the Americans don’t want to fight the Muslims on Muslim land, nor do they want Muslims to fight them on their (US) land.
“We are getting increasingly stronger while your situation is getting from bad to worse,” he told the US, referring to poor US troop morale and the huge economic losses inflicted by the war. (From who’s point of view…Troops or MSM???)

"In response to the substance of the polls in the US, which indicate that Americans do not want to fight Muslims on Muslim land, nor do they want Muslims to fight them on their land, we do not mind offering a long-term truce based on just conditions that we will stick to.

"We are a nation that Allah banned from lying and stabbing others in the back, hence both parties of the truce will enjoy stability and security to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan, which were destroyed by war. (REALLY??? you haven’t shown any proof)

Addressing Americans again, he said: “If your desire for peace, stability and reconciliation was true, here we have given you the answer to your call.” (SO we are suppose to listen to your demands???)
GOD BLESS AMERICA

Beckers

 

[AndyF]

english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/593298A0-3C1A-4EB4-B29D-EA1A9678D922.htm

My only problem with this tape is it sounds nothing like his old stuff…a Truce from him??? Seems unbelieveable.

Quotes:

"But what triggered my desire to talk to you is the continuous deliberate misinformation given by your President [George] Bush, when it comes to polls made in your home country which reveal that the majority of your people are willing to withdraw US forces from Iraq.

"We know that the majority of your people want this war to end and opinion polls show the Americans don’t want to fight the Muslims on Muslim land, nor do they want Muslims to fight them on their (US) land.
“We are getting increasingly stronger while your situation is getting from bad to worse,” he told the US, referring to poor US troop morale and the huge economic losses inflicted by the war. (From who’s point of view…Troops or MSM???)

"In response to the substance of the polls in the US, which indicate that Americans do not want to fight Muslims on Muslim land, nor do they want Muslims to fight them on their land, we do not mind offering a long-term truce based on just conditions that we will stick to.

"We are a nation that Allah banned from lying and stabbing others in the back, hence both parties of the truce will enjoy stability and security to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan, which were destroyed by war. (REALLY??? you haven’t shown any proof)

Addressing Americans again, he said: “If your desire for peace, stability and reconciliation was true, here we have given you the answer to your call.” (SO we are suppose to listen to your demands???)
GOD BLESS AMERICA

Beckers

I see nothing wrong with the formality of it.

He wants a truce, and since the US made an official declaration of war, then he makes a valid offer of peace.Seems reasonable to me.

“If your desire for peace, stability and reconciliation was true, here we have given you the answer to your call.”

and he is. But it should be remembered this offering is made not knowing the US motive, and that is to obtain natural resources, which gives his case some intrinsic moral justice.

Andy

 

[gilliam]

AndyF:

and he is. But it should be remembered this offering is made not knowing the US motive, and that is to obtain natural resources, which gives his case some intrinsic moral justice.

Andy

Andy,
We have gained no natural resources from either Iraq or Afghanistan.

IMHO, he’s loosing and he knows it. He doesn’t want a truce, he wants a cease fire for some length of time so he can re-tool, re-supply, and recruit. It is a very common strategy, and we will not be fooled by it.

I am also not convinced that this tape (if it is indeed OBL) was not recorded last year sometime and he has since passed away.

 

[AndyF]

gilliam:

Andy,
We have gained no natural resources from either Iraq or Afghanistan.

we will not be fooled by it.

Could be, but like you say that would not be uncommon strategy that we have seen nations adopt.

gilliam:

Andy,
We have gained no natural resources from either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Not as yet, but stay tuned. Already the psychological suggestion in regards to costs of the war are having people looking for a solution.

Check a recent thread on this Secular News, (forget the title) and you will see what I mean. Based on that I predict…

1/ Iraqi oil will be sold without Iraqi consent.
2/ A “deal” will be adopted that will put in place a method of “war reparations”. If carried through, this will be the final insult. Attack a foreign country on the excuse to feign deliverance from oppression, then get them to pay for it by sapping their own resources.

I pick the second.

Mark this post, bet we’ll come to it again.

Andy

 

[estesbob]

AndyF:

gilliam:

Andy,
We have gained no natural resources from either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Could be, but like you say that would not be uncommon strategy that we have seen nations adopt.

Not as yet, but stay tuned. Already the psychological suggestion in regards to costs of the war are having people looking for a solution.

Check a recent thread on this Secular News, (forget the title) and you will see what I mean. Based on that I predict…

1/ Iraqi oil will be sold without Iraqi consent.
2/ A “deal” will be adopted that will put in place a method of “war reparations”. If carried through, this will be the final insult. Attack a foreign country on the feign of deliverance, then get them to pay for it by sapping their own resources.

I pick the second.

Mark this post, bet we’ll come to it again.

Andy

I am sure at some point we are going to ask the Iraqis to use their Oil Resources to help rebuild their country. What is wrong with that?

Basically the United States has beat the you know what out of the terrorists. Te people of Iraq and Afghanistan have turned against them. Bin Laden is trying to save face. But of course, as when Reagan freed Eastern Europe, those on the Left will try and minimize the accomlishments. Thank God for a resolute President Bush do not give in to the naysayers. Thank God the American people did not entrust this war to John Kerry and the Democrat party.

 

[gilliam]

AndyF:

1/ Iraqi oil will be sold without Iraqi consent.
2/ A “deal” will be adopted that will put in place a method of “war reparations”. If carried through, this will be the final insult. Attack a foreign country on the excuse to feign deliverance from oppression, then get them to pay for it by sapping their own resources.

I pick the second.

Mark this post, bet we’ll come to it again.

Andy

I don’t pick either. There is absolutely no evidence of the US asking for war reparations, nor hinting at such, nor planning such. War reparations are inflicted upon enemies. Iraq is now an ally.

There is also no evidence that the US even has posession of Iraqi Oil.

This is nonsense.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

gilliam:

IMHO, he’s loosing and he knows it. He doesn’t want a truce, he wants a cease fire for some length of time so he can re-tool, re-supply, and recruit. It is a very common strategy, and we will not be fooled by it.

My thoughts exactly…

 

[gilliam]

no plans to raise terror threat level.

 

[koda]

AndyF:

gilliam:

Andy,
We have gained no natural resources from either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Could be, but like you say that would not be uncommon strategy that we have seen nations adopt.

Not as yet, but stay tuned. Already the psychological suggestion in regards to costs of the war are having people looking for a solution.

Check a recent thread on this Secular News, (forget the title) and you will see what I mean. Based on that I predict…

1/ Iraqi oil will be sold without Iraqi consent.
2/ A “deal” will be adopted that will put in place a method of “war reparations”. If carried through, this will be the final insult. Attack a foreign country on the excuse to feign deliverance from oppression, then get them to pay for it by sapping their own resources.

I pick the second.

Mark this post, bet we’ll come to it again.

Andy

IMO, Andy is correct. We wouldn’t even be there if it wasn’t for the oil. It is no coincidence that Bush and his buddies are all from the oil industry.

 

[shockerfan]

koda:

AndyF:

IMO, Andy is correct. We wouldn’t even be there if it wasn’t for the oil. It is no coincidence that Bush and his buddies are all from the oil industry.

Hmmm…Bush has friends in an industry he used to work in??? How dare he.

 

[estesbob]

koda:

AndyF:

IMO, Andy is correct. We wouldn’t even be there if it wasn’t for the oil. It is no coincidence that Bush and his buddies are all from the oil industry.

And your evidence of this is??? If we han wanted to too we could have started shipping oil out of Iraq 3 years ago. Why didnt we?? After we liberted Kuwait we could have seized their oilfileds and shipped all the Oil from their fields we wanted. Why didnt we? Again can you offer one iota of evidence to back up your absurd allegations?

Methinks perhaps you and Andy could find some help here zapatopi.net/afdb/

 

[shockerfan]

AndyF:

I see nothing wrong with the formality of it.

He wants a truce, and since the US made an official declaration of war, then he makes a valid offer of peace.Seems reasonable to me.

Muhammed once said, “War is deceit”. History has also shown that even though there are rules against lying in Islam…rules can be broken or bent if in doing so it benefits and furthers Islam. (The ends justify the means in Islam, at least according to those who would kill us)

History has also shown that (ala the Treaty of Hudaybiyya) that Muhammed had no problem signing a treaty, so that he could take time to build up his forces, and break the treaty by attacking once his forces were strong enoungh.

The way I read this story is that Bin Laden feels he is losing, and wants to take time to rebuild, and wants to con the west into signing a treaty. He cannot be trusted.

 

[shockerfan]

estesbob:

koda:

And your evidence of this is??? If we han wanted to too we could have started shipping oil out of Iraq 3 years ago. Why didnt we?? After we liberted Kuwait we could have seized their oilfileds and shipped all the Oil from their fields we wanted. Why didnt we? Again can you offer one iota of evidence to back up your absurd allegations?

Methinks perhaps you and Andy could find some help here zapatopi.net/afdb/

You want evidence??? Remember that with the left the “seriousness of the allegations” always outweight the evidence.

 

[gilliam]

koda:

AndyF:

IMO, Andy is correct. We wouldn’t even be there if it wasn’t for the oil. It is no coincidence that Bush and his buddies are all from the oil industry.

You can speculate all you want, but without any evidence to the contrary, your speculation simply doesn’t stand up.

 

[koda]

estesbob:

koda:

And your evidence of this is??? If we han wanted to too we could have started shipping oil out of Iraq 3 years ago. Why didnt we?? After we liberted Kuwait we could have seized their oilfileds and shipped all the Oil from their fields we wanted. Why didnt we? Again can you offer one iota of evidence to back up your absurd allegations?

Methinks perhaps you and Andy could find some help here zapatopi.net/afdb/

Personally, I think it’s a no brainer. Oil people invade nation with large oil reserves. People are suffering all over the world. What about Darfur, which we just seem to be ignoring. But, then, they have no oil. But you clearly have no intention of accepting that this may be the case, so I’m willing to bet that even if Bush said so himself you’d say something like he was pressured into it by the “other” side.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

AndyF:

He wants a truce

Maybe. And maybe he wants the US to cooperate in an Al Queda bivouac.

AndyF:

and since the US made an official declaration of war, then he makes a valid offer of peace.Seems reasonable to me.

The Resolution was an official declaration of war in what way? And relates to OBL’s offer of peace in what way? The relationship which you draw between the two is reasonable in what way?

AndyF:

and he is. But it should be remembered this offering is made not knowing the US motive, and that is to obtain natural resources, which gives his case some intrinsic moral justice.Andy

To obtain natural resources. What evidence do you offer to support this opinion? Particularly in light of the Resolution? Which you have yet to link to? And which you have yet to discuss? OBL’s stated aim – Islam or death – gives his case some intrinsic moral justice in what way?

 

[AndyF]

estesbob:

I am sure at some point we are going to ask the Iraqis to use their Oil Resources to help rebuild their country. What is wrong with that?

nothing, as long as 80% of it doesn’t weed it’s way finally to end up in a US military pension or tax relief fund.

Basically the United States has beat the you know what out of the terrorists.

conventionally yes. But for long term effect, recognition that one has lost the war is part of the process. Here we can find no one who will sign the surrender papers on the USS Whatever. My concern is this will hit home one day when our grandkids get lung cancer by breathing the cesium 137 in the subway tunnels some time in 2020-40. The war for these people ends when that final revenge by their grandkids takes place, and I hope I’m wrong. I think the odds are pretty good that the stuff will come in as part of the 2% missed by customs.

as when Reagan freed Eastern Europe, and ignored the plight of the Kurds for foreign policy

I wonder what policy he could have effected then. He could have killed two birds with one stone if he had forsight. Handle the Kurd situation, as well as any future potential problems concerning Iraq. Maybe the billions spent today could have been saved.

…John Kerry and the Democrat party.

Possessing forsight is a characteristic I search for in my candidates, and is what is required in this me and now society.

Thanks for the post.

Andy

 

[gilliam]

STERLING, Va, Jan 19 (Reuters) - The White House said on Thursday that the United States “does not negotiate with terrorists,” responding to questions about a reported audio tape by Osama bin Laden that warned al Qaeda was preparing new attacks but said the group was open to a conditional truce with Americans.
alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/WBT004609.htm

 

[Robert_Bay]

You guys are off topic. Please return to the topic of the OP

 

[Ani_Ibi]

koda:

Personally, I think it’s a no brainer.

No doubt. But it can be a brainer if sufficient rigour is applied to research and to thinking through the issues in a logical manner. As opposed to using the forum to singlemindedly promote an agenda.

koda:

Oil people invade nation with large oil reserves.

Which relates to the Resolution to go to war in what way?

koda:

People are suffering all over the world. What about Darfur, which we just seem to be ignoring. But, then, they have no oil. But you clearly have no intention of accepting that this may be the case, so I’m willing to bet that even if Bush said so himself you’d say something like he was pressured into it by the “other” side.

Mindreading? :tsktsk: