Bipartisan Health Care Effort

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ProVobis said:
I think Medicaid kicks in for nursing homes if your net worth is less than $100k, which it may soon become given the costs of nursing homes are $5000 per month.
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I am not saying that $100k is sufficient, but the idea is that we need to convince people that old age is something that needs to be planned for. For example, I work with people who make $100k+ per year. Some of them have not put anything away for retirement, should working people really have to subsidize the healthcare of people like that?
 
Jeanne_S said:
John Roberts,appointed bybGWB.Thanks to his pretzel logic,Obamacare became the law of the land.:mad:
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There may be but on what else major has Roberts bucked the Catholic Republican/conservative line? I know not on SSM. I don’t know but some of the examples given of justices not voting their party line were justices appointed back in the day when perhaps litmus tests weren’t used on hot button issues to the degree in which they may be privately today. Whether a nominating President or a confirming senator will admit publicly of using litmus tests or not.
 
OraLabora said:
So you think a person with $100k in assets can afford a new car every year and pay cash?

What planet are yo living on? :rolleyes:
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I don’t know what planet. I guess some people just throw around $20,000 like it’s nothing.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I am not saying that $100k is sufficient, but the idea is that we need to convince people that old age is something that needs to be planned for. For example, I work with people who make $100k+ per year. Some of them have not put anything away for retirement, should working people really have to subsidize the healthcare of people like that?
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And if people made mistakes in life and did not plan sufficiently or even if they underestimated what their costs could be in old age, then what? You tell them too bad? Tough luck when you’re sick and need care.
 
gnjsdad said:
Yes, all of those Medicare beneficiaries in their 70s and 80s should just stop taking from the productive segments of society, get out of their hammocks, and GET TO WORK!!

The more I think of this whole debate, the more I realize that the GOP’s biggest problem is a lack of wordsmiths. I mean, they have Frank Luntz. That ought to be enough. But apparently, it isn’t. Social Darwinism, as morally repugnant as it is, nevertheless has a significant following in the GOP. Yet they refuse to own it and resent being called mean when they come up with schemes that throw millions of poor and elderly off of access to affordable healthcare. What they need is someone who can make “I got mine. Bleep you. I ain’t payin’ for you” sound palatable.
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Well said
 
Sy_Noe said:
And if people made mistakes in life and did not plan sufficiently or even if they underestimated what their costs could be in old age, then what? You tell them too bad? Tough luck when you’re sick and need care.
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Medicaid.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Those that can work, should work. The principle of subsidiarity requires no less.
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Subsidiarity only applies when considered in conjunction with the common good and solidarity as principles of Catholic social justice.

Separating subsidiarity from its root in the common good renders it meaningless. It becomes an excuse for those who do not want the higher level of government do anything.
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stinkcat_14:
Working people should not have to sacrifice for those who have the means to pay their own way.
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Although not related to this thread, I cannot resist: This is a perfect argument to make against mega-corporations like Walmart, which refuse to pay a living wage to their employees who must continue to rely on food stamps and other government assistance despite being full-time employees.
 
gnjsdad said:
Subsidiarity only applies when considered in conjunction with the common good and solidarity as principles of Catholic social justice.

Separating subsidiarity from its root in the common good renders it meaningless. It becomes an excuse for those who do not want the higher level of government do anything.
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In what way does expecting able bodied people to work and people with means to buy their own health insurance conflict with the common good?
Although not related to this thread, I cannot resist: This is a perfect argument to make against mega-corporations like Walmart, which refuse to pay a living wage to their employees who must continue to rely on food stamps and other government assistance despite being full-time employees.
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And yet you want these people to pay a payroll tax so Warren Buffett can get subsidized health insurance.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Those that can work, should work. The principle of subsidiarity requires no less. People are healthier than at any other point in history and thus more able to work. Working people should not have to sacrifice for those who have the means to pay their own way.
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It’s worth remembering though that there are only so many really cushy jobs like university professors. As you get older, it takes longer to recover physically and so physically demanding jobs are very difficult for the elderly.
 
Jig_Saw said:
It’s worth remembering though that there are only so many really cushy jobs like university professors. As you get older, it takes longer to recover physically and so physically demanding jobs are very difficult for the elderly.
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Not every job is physically demanding.
 
Padres1969 said:
Only way anything is going to happen is if both sides work together. The Republicans despite having both houses and the presidency apparently can’t get anything done with their attempt at health care reform, other than trying to pick away at the ACA to make it fail.
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ACA will fail on its own - it was designed to fail and it was a 100% Democratic bill - with no effort at being bi-partisan …

The Republicans did nothing to make it fail - can could do so by picking away at it … it is failing and will continue to fail
 
Jig_Saw said:
No, but many are, and most jobs are more physically demanding than teaching one class every semester while having the security of tenure so that you can’t get fired.
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I know a 75 year old who does cleaning, I know a 73 year old who is a cashier, a 70 year old who is a parts driver.

As to professors having cushy jobs, one department in my school could not hire anyone last year. They made offers to two people, but then the declined the position. So I guess it is not that cushy.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
In what way does expecting able bodied people to work and people with means to buy their own health insurance conflict with the common good?

And yet you want these people to pay a payroll tax so Warren Buffett can get subsidized health insurance.
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The problem comes with defining “means”, and dealing with people who cannot buy affordable coverage due to pre-existing conditions. I’m in that boat. But I live in Canada so I’m covered.

I did earn well under $100k for most of my career. Only in the last two years did I hit that number. When I did, I was laid off and replaced by someone 20 yrs younger. I had no company pension but did manage to build my own retirement account. It is modest but well over the base number you gave. I can assure you, I would not be able to afford $20k of my capital in a year for medical expenses and have my nest egg outlive me. I am 59 and would not yet qualify for Medicaid in the US.

Illness is one of the great equalizers in life. As we learn more about genetics, the number of uninsurable persons will go up, not down, with private insurance. Even someone with $1m in assets could be wiped out by cancer surgery, years of chemo and radiation and perhaps more surgery. When cancer treatment was largely telling someone they had six months to live and morphine, maybe your ideas could work. But now with individualized chemo regimens with drugs that cost thousands per infusion, your notions are too simplistic and would guarantee that many would not be able to afford care.

A wealthy nation should be able to ensure that every single citizen has access to affordable health care.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Medicaid.
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So that’s your answer. Force people to go practically broke or go into a nursing home. There are people today who do not qualify for Medicaid but who also do not qualify for a subsidy due to not enough income and are going without needed healthcare n this country. It’s time for universal healthcare.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I know a 75 year old who does cleaning, I know a 73 year old who is a cashier, a 70 year old who is a parts driver.

As to professors having cushy jobs, one department in my school could not hire anyone last year. They made offers to two people, but then the declined the position. So I guess it is not that cushy.
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Not everyone that age has the stamina to clean, stand all day at a cash register, or spend all day stuck in traffic. In fact I would hazard a guess that those who can are in the minority. Read the Rule of Saint Benedict and see what he says about charity towards those of lesser ability, and sollicitude for the elderly.
 
OraLabora said:
Not everyone that age has the stamina to clean, stand all day at a cash register, or spend all day stuck in traffic. In fact I would hazard a guess that those who can are in the minority. Read the Rule of Saint Benedict and see what he says about charity towards those of lesser ability, and sollicitude for the elderly.
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Yet somehow these people manage to find their way around the golf course. I think you underestimate the stamina of individuals. Not everyone over 65 is physically incapacitated.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I know a 75 year old who does cleaning, I know a 73 year old who is a cashier, a 70 year old who is a parts driver.
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Thank God these 70+ yr olds are so blessed with good enough health to clean and able to stand on their feet at a cash register and have good enough eye sight to drive and the strength to deliver parts all around. If only everyone were so blessed.
 
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