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Sy_Noe
Guest
I posted before seeing OraLabora had beaten me to it. But oh come on. Plenty of people are not golfing or have the stamina to do what you seem to think. Not on this planet.
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OraLabora
Guest
Riding around on an electric golf cart and working the register all day aren’t the same thing. Ask the guy at the register if he’d rather be golfing or working the register all day.
Not every one over 65 is incapacitated but I can guarantee he or she tires much more quickly than at 35 or even 55. I’ve noticed a big drop in my 50s even though I’m still relatively fit and ride my bike 4000 km/year to fight off the effects of diabetes which is a complication of my hereditary condition. Up until last year I could ride back to back 100 km rides. Now I need a recovery day or two between even shorter rides. It’s called aging and it will happen to you too. I pray that it does to you, aging beats the alternative!
How old are you? Are you speaking from personal experience, or just opining on what you think old people should be able to do?
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YADA
Guest
You are equating health insurance with health care - they are not the same …
Even people with no insurance received health care … I know this to be a fact … great health care at great expense and with no ability to repay the costs … all known at the time the care was received …
Nothing in the ACA dealt with underlying issues and the Democrats do not have the political will to change things that would really make a difference -
Changes to the Anti-Trust laws - Insurance Companies are exempted - that should be changed immediately
We regulate the food/grocery industry such that every Twinkie sold must have its nutritional value posted on the label and every product must have its price posted … ditto for gas stations - merchandise of all kinds … even your mechanic has to have full disclosure on services …
** But not health care - no disclosure required ** That is the one aspect where people blindly go for services with no care about cost … we shop for TVs and smart phones that have the features we want and a cost - the best deal cost - we can afford … not so …
We need full disclosure of medical costs - these Costs need to be POSTED and provided … AT EVERY doctors office, clinics, pharmacies, hospitals … along with special agreements that may exist between the providers and the insurance company that exist that change the cost … Cash price, if you have Insurance Co A, Insurance Co Y and or Insurance Co Z.
If there is a pressing need for government to mandate a policy - it should ONLY have mandated a Catastrophic Health Insurance Policy - which would have protected the TAX payer and other patients from picking up the tab for those who suffered a catastrophic medical event - Cancer/Auto accident … that way the majority of the cost would be covered and the person could have paid back the few thousand that was not covered - even if it took time to do so. And there should never have been a tax penalty imposed if they failed to do so … failure to purchase should have made the person ineligible for filing bankruptcy [like student loans are ineligible] to dismiss and perhaps some forms of social programs … like the Earned Income Credit … in fact proof of insurance should have been a requirement to file for the Earned Income Credit …
Additionally there should have been no waivers for Unions, etc as there were for the ACA …
Full disclosure of costs would be the biggest benefit to the health care crisis and Catastrophic coverage combined with Health Savings Accounts - which is cheap especially for the younger more likely to be uninsured adults …
I have a High Deductible Insurance plan with a HSA - for about the last 5 years - I have quite a health nest egg built - in case I need it … and in that time I have saved more than the annual deductible - without even contributing the maximum … I was in my 50s … think what a young person just starting out in what should for most be their healthiest years … Why the ACA mandated “stuff” be covered for 100% of people was crazy
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Superb summary!
I wanted to mark it to come back to.
Especially the “cash price” aspect.
And the HSA.
And no special sweetheart deals for government employees, members of Congress, or union members.
solidarityhealthshare.org for Catholics
If you add in tort reform and a few other minor things, it ends up as an excellent program.
And if you qualify for the Earned Income Credit, then perhaps you also qualify for the 1040MED.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
At what age is someone physically incapable of doing any type of work?
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Anytime I hear that health insurance and care are not the same, the first thing that comes to my mind is that’s sheer and utter nonsense. Not having adequate care, preventive care, routine checkups, the meds one needs, etc etc and running to the ER is not great and proper care. Nor would be dying in one’s sleep from a heart attack or stroke that might have been preventable if only a person could have afforded regular dr visits and needed meds. And I don’t know how many 5 or 6 figure surgeries are going to be performed for people for free with no ability of repayment without them going bankrupt or homeless in the meantime. This is the 21st century. It’s not 2000 yrs ago.
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OraLabora
Guest
Depends on the work and the health of the individual. And of course an employer willing to hire.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
So in other words, if people are able bodied, they should work, right?
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Jeanne_S
Guest
With this premise in mind,a good starting point would be all those able bodied folks milking the welfare system.Rather than focus on elderly citizens who have paid into and forceably I might add for their entire working career,seems more pragmatic to get the former off their butts and into the workforce.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Anybody who is able bodied needs to get off their butt and into the workforce. The exception of course is if you are paying your own way. But did you know that medicare payroll tax only pays for part A? About 75% of the cost of part B is paid for from general tax revenues, that is well over $200 billion per year. Somehow, we have turned our older folks into people who think they are entitled to enslave the younger generation into debt.With this premise in mind,a good starting point would be all those able bodied folks milking the welfare system.Rather than focus on elderly citizens who have paid into and forceably I might add for their entire working career,seems more pragmatic to get the former off their butts and into the workforce.
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YADA
Guest
Well - I know a young man [27] who had a virus attack his heart - he was in transition with employment - left a job that had insurance - got another job that did not have insurance but hated it - He used his days off to find a new job - which he had started - worked two days … ended up in Intensive care - no insurance … and was let go from the new position for “not completing his training” … he received excellent care and even heart surgery with placement of a pacemaker/defibrillator … the hospital and doctors knew he had no insurance and no employment before the operation … Medication was costly, operation, recovery and follow-up all provided … and yes the bills mounted - even with thousands of dollars “forgiven” the bills totaled in the six figures … the longest time this 27 year old was unemployed since he was aged 16 was the 8 months after he was discharged from the hospital … he found a job and began making payments, they even have garnished his wages … and now after 9 years is seriously considering filing for bankruptcy [something I believe he should have done long ago] … but he has worked steadily can covered all of his ongoing medical care since that initial unexpected event …
Health Insurance and medical care are not the same …
Sadly, many people think they deserve something at no cost and no personal investment … This young man - father of three is not one of them. He works hard and only accepted social program support when absolutely necessary with the intent to get back to work and begin building his own future . .which is what social programs should be - they are not intended to become a “way of life” or generational means of sole personal/family support - which they are …
And this young man told me that many people have told him if he was going to file for bankruptcy he should go out and purchase as much as he can on credit first
because it would all get discharged … Really - this is how people think - he owes nothing except the past medical bills - no credit card debt, no car loans …he won’t - he was deeply distressed and saddened by this adviceThere no free lunch - help is there for people … there are protections in place … Greed is not the sole providence of Insurance Companies, Banks and Credit Card companies … people who think they can ‘get one over’ on the government, the insurance companies, banks and credit card companies worship before Greed’s altar too
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Jig_Saw
Guest
If you tell me the school and department, I am sure I could explain it, but, more generally, it has to do with the bizarre hiring process and inability to properly access what is important (ability to drive revenue) when hiring. Having two people turn done a position is not an indication that the job isn’t cushy…
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stinkcat_14
Guest
It is in the business school and the management department.
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Jig_Saw
Guest
Making more in the private sector in the short term with the potential of great rewards (without realizing how few will obtain those rewards and/or how much luck is a factor in obtaining those rewards) is more important than the long-term benefits of cushy job. Basically rolling the dice and hoping for a home run.
And that’s without even knowing what school it is which probably also is a factor.
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Monte_RCMS
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Sy_Noe
Guest
So to make a log story short, the moral of your story is a sick person still ends up bankrupt.Well - I know a young man [27] who had a virus attack his heart - he was in transition with employment - left a job that had insurance - got another job that did not have insurance but hated it - He used his days off to find a new job - which he had started - worked two days … ended up in Intensive care - no insurance … and was let go from the new position for “not completing his training” … he received excellent care and even heart surgery with placement of a pacemaker/defibrillator … the hospital and doctors knew he had no insurance and no employment before the operation … Medication was costly, operation, recovery and follow-up all provided … and yes the bills mounted - even with thousands of dollars “forgiven” the bills totaled in the six figures … the longest time this 27 year old was unemployed since he was aged 16 was the 8 months after he was discharged from the hospital … he found a job and began making payments, they even have garnished his wages … and now after 9 years is seriously considering filing for bankruptcy [something I believe he should have done long ago] … but he has worked steadily can covered all of his ongoing medical care since that initial unexpected event …
Health Insurance and medical care are not the same …
Sadly, many people think they deserve something at no cost and no personal investment … This young man - father of three is not one of them. He works hard and only accepted social program support when absolutely necessary with the intent to get back to work and begin building his own future . .which is what social programs should be - they are not intended to become a “way of life” or generational means of sole personal/family support - which they are …
And this young man told me that many people have told him if he was going to file for bankruptcy he should go out and purchase as much as he can on credit first
There no free lunch - help is there for people … there are protections in place … Greed is not the sole providence of Insurance Companies, Banks and Credit Card companies … people who think they can ‘get one over’ on the government, the insurance companies, banks and credit card companies worship before Greed’s altar too
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stinkcat_14
Guest
So these verses would argue against social security. I thought you were in favor of social security?
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Or perhaps the job is not as cushy as you think.
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Jig_Saw
Guest
I have a front row seat seeing how easy it is, so I know.
I also know how much they like to pretend it’s very hard.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
All this talk on this thread of just go bankrupt, lose everything, go on Medicaid, pull yourself up by the bootstraps if you’re 75, don’t ride a golf cart, go get a job instead, etc etc has started to make me sick at my sromach and right now disgusted at what I am reading. So it’s best if I’m outta this thread for now. It all might sound fine to some. But it doesn’t to me especially if it happens to you or a loved one. God bless you all though. Hope you are always so blessed with young age, good health, and much wealth.
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