Bipartisan Health Care Effort

[lmachine]

All this talk on this thread of just go bankrupt, lose everything, go on Medicaid, pull yourself up by the bootstraps if you’re 75, don’t ride a golf cart, go get a job instead, etc etc has started to make me sick at my sromach and right now disgusted at what I am reading. So it’s best if I’m outta this thread for now. It all might sound fine to some. But it doesn’t to me especially if it happens to you or a loved one. God bless you all though. Hope you are always so blessed with young age, good health, and much wealth.

It’s a really horrifying sentiment and the reason why the Pope has to come out and emphasize that health care is a human right, not a consumer good.

 

[ProVobis]

I am not saying that $100k is sufficient, but the idea is that we need to convince people that old age is something that needs to be planned for. For example, I work with people who make $100k+ per year. Some of them have not put anything away for retirement, should working people really have to subsidize the healthcare of people like that?

The funny thing is if you ask them if they’ve saved enough for retirement, they think whatever they’ve saved will go into traveling and such, since they presume Medicare will pay for everything, which is not true.

 

[ProVobis]

Superb summary!

I wanted to mark it to come back to.

Especially the “cash price” aspect.

And the HSA.

And no special sweetheart deals for government employees, members of Congress, or union members.

solidarityhealthshare.org for Catholics

If you add in tort reform and a few other minor things, it ends up as an excellent program.

And if you qualify for the Earned Income Credit, then perhaps you also qualify for the 1040MED.

The HSA and tort reform can be legislated outside the R&R bill, no?

 

[ucfengr]

It’s a really horrifying sentiment and the reason why the Pope has to come out and emphasize that health care is a human right, not a consumer good.

This is why people should avoid making pronouncements about things significantly beyond their area of expertise. In practice the idea that health care is a right means that health care is a right for rich white people. The British health care system, for example, imports thousands of doctors from other countries, many from India, Pakistan, Syria, Sudan, and Iraq. These are not places not known for having a surplus of quality health care.

telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11375600/NHS-now-dependent-on-foreign-doctors-with-3000-more-in-last-year.html

 

[ProVobis]

ACA will fail on its own - it was designed to fail and it was a 100% Democratic bill - with no effort at being bi-partisan …

For the record, only the final bill was partisan. The steps going to create and modify the bill involved one Republican vote in the initial House bill, lots of Republican amendments, and a vote by Virginia Snowe to proceed out of Senate committee when she could have killed the bill.

 

[Sy_Noe]

It’s a really horrifying sentiment and the reason why the Pope has to come out and emphasize that health care is a human right, not a consumer good.

Thanks Imachine. I needed that. I can’t even come close to being in the presence of the Pope. But glad to know I am not alone on this. You came through at just right the time.

 

[Sy_Noe]

This is why people should avoid making pronouncements about things significantly beyond their area of expertise. In practice the idea that health care is a right means that health care is a right for rich white people. The British health care system, for example, imports thousands of doctors from other countries, many from India, Pakistan, Syria, Sudan, and Iraq. These are not places not known for having a surplus of quality health care.

telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11375600/NHS-now-dependent-on-foreign-doctors-with-3000-more-in-last-year.html

Are you saying the Vicar of Christ on earth according to Catholic belief doesn’t know enough about healthcare and caring for the sick (and all of us will someday need care of some sort) to be able to make such pronouncements?

 

[OraLabora]

So in other words, if people are able bodied, they should work, right?

Wrong. People have the right to a retirement. Many, like myself, give back by volunteering. Make people work till they drop and see how many are left to do the many necessary unpaid task in society.

Quite frankly yours is a heartless vision of society, and by no means Catholic.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Wrong. People have the right to a retirement. Many, like myself, give back by volunteering. Make people work till they drop and see how many are left to do the many necessary unpaid task in society.

Quite frankly yours is a heartless vision of society, and by no means Catholic.

:clapping:

 

[dvdjs]

With this premise in mind,a good starting point would be all those able bodied folks milking the welfare system.Rather than focus on elderly citizens who have paid into and forceably I might add for their entire working career,seems more pragmatic to get the former off their butts and into the workforce.

Just on the off chance that you would like to have a better idea of what you are talking about.
fns.usda.gov/snap/able-bodied-adults-without-dependents-abawds

 

[ucfengr]

Wrong. People have the right to a retirement. Many, like myself, give back by volunteering. Make people work till they drop and see how many are left to do the many necessary unpaid task in society.

Quite frankly yours is a heartless vision of society, and by no means Catholic.

So, what you’re saying is the grasshopper has the right to live off the ant’s labor?

Are you saying the Vicar of Christ on earth according to Catholic belief doesn’t know enough about healthcare and caring for the sick (and all of us will someday need care of some sort) to be able to make such pronouncements?

Is the Vicar of Christ on Earth a medical doctor or nurse? Has he ever treated a sick patient? Has he ever managed a hospital? What is his experience that he assumes the authority to make pronouncements on how a nation should run its health care system?

I notice you complete ignored the fact in order to in order to provide this right to health care, rich, white nations, must poach doctors from poor, dark nations, that already have a shortage of quality health care. The reality of the right to health care is that it only applies to rich Europeans. If you’re a poor Syrian or Yemeni, tough toenails.

 

[OraLabora]

So, what you’re saying is the grasshopper has the right to live off the ant’s labor?.

I wish you a long, happy and prosperous retirement. I really do. Moreover, this grasshopper is living off of the monies he accumulated whilst working throughout his career, and wisely invested.

Is the Vicar of Christ on Earth a medical doctor or nurse? Has he ever treated a sick patient? Has he ever managed a hospital? What is his experience that he assumes the authority to make pronouncements on how a nation should run its health care system?

The Catholic Church has and continues to run some of the finest hospitals in the world. I worked in one once, run by the Sisters of Charity. The Holy Father is the head of the orders and congregations that run those institutions.

I would think that while the Holy Father himself may not be a medical doctor or nurse, there have been religious who have been nurses and many upstanding doctors have happened to be Catholic and would ensure that he is well informed on the realities of health care in today’s world. So I would think he is pretty in tune with the health care needs of his flock, just as, perhaps the Franciscan superior keeps him up-to-date on the fate of the poor in the cities.

Moreover, caring for the sick is a Biblical mandate, cf Matthew 25.

We can quibble on the best method, but I think the Holy Father is on solid Biblical ground in deeming health care a right. I don’t think he has dictated to individual nations on how to carry on that mandate, just that it needs to be carried on.

 

[EasterJoy]

Honestly, I think it would help in the repeal and replace effort if someone (one would think the President would usually fulfill this function) would explain what the ACA is, what it is not, what it intended to do, why it will not achieve that, how to achieve that by another way, and why the new way will work.

What they cannot do is say, “what was promised cannot be done, you cannot have it, go away.” That ship has sailed. Other countries cover more people, the President campaigned on covering everybody and doing better, and it is time to put up or die trying.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Honestly, I think it would help in the repeal and replace effort if someone (one would think the President would usually fulfill this function) would explain what the ACA is, what it is not, what it intended to do, why it will not achieve that, how to achieve that by another way, and why the new way will work.

What they cannot do is say, “what was promised cannot be done, you cannot have it, go away.” That ship has sailed. Other countries cover more people, the President campaigned on covering everybody and doing better, and it is time to put up or die trying.

Yes,this is something Trump should have been doing from day one.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Yes,this is something Trump should have been doing from day one.

No by day one he was going to have Obamacare repealed and we were going to have this beautiful picture of great healthcare for everyone, cheaper and everyone would be covered. No cuts in Medicaid. Then one day sometime after day one he realized healthcare was hard.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I wish you a long, happy and prosperous retirement. I really do. Moreover, this grasshopper is living off of the monies he accumulated whilst working throughout his career, and wisely invested.

The Catholic Church has and continues to run some of the finest hospitals in the world. I worked in one once, run by the Sisters of Charity. The Holy Father is the head of the orders and congregations that run those institutions.

I would think that while the Holy Father himself may not be a medical doctor or nurse, there have been religious who have been nurses and many upstanding doctors have happened to be Catholic and would ensure that he is well informed on the realities of health care in today’s world. So I would think he is pretty in tune with the health care needs of his flock, just as, perhaps the Franciscan superior keeps him up-to-date on the fate of the poor in the cities.

Moreover, caring for the sick is a Biblical mandate, cf Matthew 25.

We can quibble on the best method, but I think the Holy Father is on solid Biblical ground in deeming health care a right. I don’t think he has dictated to individual nations on how to carry on that mandate, just that it needs to be carried on.

This^. And it doesn’t take medical expertise to know the sick are to be cared for. We all are going to be sick and have health issues someday, if we don’t or haven’t been already so it needs to be universal. Period.

 

[YADA]

So to make a log story short, the moral of your story is a sick person still ends up bankrupt.

No - he will not end up bankrupt - he and his family are doing just fine and they will recover from filing for bankruptcy … and not while using the option to defraud other lenders as many have advised him - using his filing to steal …

Bankruptcy laws are meant to provide an avenue for overcoming this instance of a financial setback … which allows people to recover and build anew … its not meant to be taken lightly and used to overcome personal irresponsibility …

While its sad this illness struck a man who had changed positions and because they were young and healthy had not thought to obtain a catastrophic health care policy which would have been cheap - 6 - 12 months would have been a few hundred dollars total 8 years ago. He should have obtained it - he chose not to - by just not considering it … he easily could have afforded it - even though he does not have a degree nor did he work at high paying jobs. The fact is - he could have had that amount of money - it was cheaper than car insurance

The difference between you and him is he does not run around crying about his poor decision and the consequences … the fact is he got great medical care regardless of his ability to pay for it … he is thankful every day …adn he has paid as much against it as he can … and even when the bill collectors called him - and they garnished his wages - he does not complain … he does owe the money. But he does not make a lot and he also has a family … So - soon - I hope - he will put that debt behind him - he will always know he did he best and tried …

The ACA created far more problems than it solved and like most government solutions - had far more unintended consequences and shifted cost from one group to another - increased costs …

I kept hearing it compared to the requirement to purchase auto insurance - but they ACA isnt at all like the government required auto liability insurance car owners are required to carry …

Car owners are not required to carry Comprehensive Collision and Liability insurance by the government … you are only mandated to carry Liability insurance that protects any people and or property the car owner might injure … that insurance does not cover you for any damage done to the car you own or to injury you cause yourself … Now if you borrow money to buy the car - your Lender requires you to purchase collision insurance to protect their interest in your car - not to protect you - but to protect their investment …

If the ACA had mandated a person purchase a High Deductible Catastrophic Plan with a Health Savings Account minimal that would have protected against a loss like that young man had - protected the Hospital and healthcare providers so they would not have to pass on the cost of his care to other patients, or to Medicaid, Medicare etc … but no - the government had to mandate higher more costly forms of insurance coverage …

Did the ACA do anything to require health care costs be Posted for the consumer? - **nope **
Dd the ACA address antitrust exemptions? - nope

People need to be empowered to take control of their health care and trusted to make their own decisions - and live with the consequences - We are a free people and should be treated as such … Government cannot be our Nanny

 

[ProVobis]

People need to be empowered to take control of their health care and trusted to make their own decisions - and live with the consequences - We are a free people and should be treated as such … Government cannot be our Nanny

Good luck with that argument. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are as part of our lives as they have ever been. Even if you get a Congress to pass laws defunding them, the court system will prevent that from happening. SCOTUS for better or worse ruled with the ACA so sabotage it at your own risk.

 

[lmachine]

Bankruptcy laws are meant to provide an avenue for overcoming this instance of a financial setback …

Getting sick should not be such a financial setback that it requires a bankruptcy filing.

 

[Jeanne_S]

No by day one he was going to have Obamacare repealed and we were going to have this beautiful picture of great healthcare for everyone, cheaper and everyone would be covered. No cuts in Medicaid. Then one day sometime after day one he realized healthcare was hard.

Petty