Birth control and endometriosis?

[underacloud]

So secular doctors can tailor the pill to each woman? S/he can determine the exact dose needed, based on her particular hormone levels and intentions, and have the pharmacy make it? For $4? I had no idea that was possible.

As I’ve said, it depends on the intentions of the patient as to whether the Pill - or any other hormonal treatments and there are many - is an appropriate option. And many of these options do differ in the hormonal doses so while a doctor can’t tailor a specific pill, they can potentially select an appropriate option among many.

If the patient does not wish to preserve fertility and simply wants to stop the pain, then the treatment may be to suppress the cycle, and thus the medications designed to do this (for the immoral purpose of contraception) are very convenient for this off-script purpose.

I didn’t say that the pill couldn’t be an option. I simply mentioned napro as an option and got attacked for things that I never even said.

Well, I “attacked” you for the old line that the Pill only treats the symptoms. I have no problem with people seeking NaPro doctors to help, especially if they wish to treat endo and preserve fertility. But I do have an issue with such people having a condescending attitude towards others who choose a different - and morally legitimate - treatment approach.

 

[Regina7]

As I’ve said, it depends on the intentions of the patient as to whether the Pill - or any other hormonal treatments and there are many - is an appropriate option. And many of these options do differ in the hormonal doses so while a doctor can’t tailor a specific pill, they can potentially select an appropriate option among many.

If the patient does not wish to preserve fertility and simply wants to stop the pain, then the treatment may be to suppress the cycle, and thus the medications designed to do this (for the immoral purpose of contraception) are very convenient for this off-script purpose.

Well, I “attacked” you for the old line that the Pill only treats the symptoms. I have no problem with people seeking NaPro doctors to help, especially if they wish to treat endo and preserve fertility. But I do have an issue with such people having a condescending attitude towards others who choose a different - and morally legitimate - treatment approach.

From endometriosis.org

Like all the other hormonal treatments, the pill does not cure endometriosis. Rather, it alleviates the pain of endometriosis by suppressing menstruation and inhibiting the growth of the endometrial implants.

There is a bulldog defense of the pill here and I don’t get it. I NEVER said the pill was morally wrong (to use for endo) nor did I even imply it.

 

[bitterhope]

So secular doctors can tailor the pill to each woman? S/he can determine the exact dose needed, based on her particular hormone levels and intentions, and have the pharmacy make it? For $4? I had no idea that was possible.

I didn’t say that the pill couldn’t be an option. I simply mentioned napro as an option and got attacked for things that I never even said.

Yes, actually drs can and do just that! My situation is slightly different as all medicines are free for me as long as I get them at the military pharmacy and off post pharmacies are $3-10 depending on of it formulary/generic/etc. but I had to have a medicine compounded for me at one time based on blood testing to make it exactly what my body needed and it was a military dr that did the testing and prescribed the drugs. My SIL sees a regular OB/GYN and has her medicine for PCOS compounded at the pharmacy in her hometown based on her blood work. Another SIL has just used the birth control pill and honestly her results are just as good. NaPro drs are not the only ones that have the ability to tailor treatments to individual patients, but many ladies don’t have the time, money or even desire to go through all the testing, appts, procedures and they choose to take the easier path for as long as they are having relief. There is nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with the other. I pray that you are able to have another child as your heart desires. That is a beautiful longing that is also lonely and painful as we wait. I am saddened that your longing was twisted in a way you didn’t intend for it to be. For what it’s worth, I didn’t misunderstand what you wrote about desiring a successful pregnancy. I’m sorry you are experiencing this. I will also pray for your babies. Please pray for mine.

 

[underacloud]

Actually, don’t they thin the uterine lining (thin uterine lining, but thicken cervical fluid)? That makes preserving ovulation while taking low dose hormones morally somewhat problematic. A thin uterine lining is one that is less capable of preserving early human life. I understand that it could be equally licit as taking full dose hormones, but I personally would have qualms about it. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the thin lining is a feature, not a bug for endometriosis therapy, right?

Right. Thickening of the line and growth of endo generally go hand in hand. Suppressing one will suppress the other. That’s why it’s more easy to treat endo if preserving fertility is not a concern.

The thinning of the lining as an issue to weigh, in terms of unintended secondary effects. It was suggested at one time to my wife that she take the mini-pill, which is progesterone based, not combined, but generally does not suppress ovulation very well. The exact contraceptive mechanisms are not well understood, but we had considerable concerns that if ovulation is not suppressed but the lining is thinned, that one of the key mechanisms may be abortifacient. Another suggestions was a hormonal IUD, but again we had similar concerns.

There are progresterone treatmants that are generally stronger and suppress ovulation, so the abortifacient mechanism is not a concern (eg the Shot, the Rod). These seemed much more morally acceptable to us, in terms of weighing the secondary effects.

 

[Regina7]

Yes, actually drs can and do just that! My situation is slightly different as all medicines are free for me as long as I get them at the military pharmacy and off post pharmacies are $3-10 depending on of it formulary/generic/etc. but I had to have a medicine compounded for me at one time based on blood testing to make it exactly what my body needed and it was a military dr that did the testing and prescribed the drugs. My SIL sees a regular OB/GYN and has her medicine for PCOS compounded at the pharmacy in her hometown based on her blood work. Another SIL has just used the birth control pill and honestly her results are just as good. NaPro drs are not the only ones that have the ability to tailor treatments to individual patients, but many ladies don’t have the time, money or even desire to go through all the testing, appts, procedures and they choose to take the easier path for as long as they are having relief. There is nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with the other. I pray that you are able to have another child as your heart desires. That is a beautiful longing that is also lonely and painful as we wait. I am saddened that your longing was twisted in a way you didn’t intend for it to be. For what it’s worth, I didn’t misunderstand what you wrote about desiring a successful pregnancy. I’m sorry you are experiencing this. I will also pray for your babies. Please pray for mine.

Thank you for your prayers. I offer you mine as well.

I’m happy to hear that other doctors offer patient-specific meds. I have not seen that anywhere. I wasn’t even offered it, even at Cleveland Clinic, which is supposed to be one of the best. I pray that more doctors start offering the treatment that you and your family get. Are these doctors military docs only? Sorry- I don’t know much about military healthcare.

 

[underacloud]

From endometriosis.org

Like all the other hormonal treatments, the pill does not cure endometriosis. Rather, it alleviates the pain of endometriosis by suppressing menstruation and inhibiting the growth of the endometrial implants.

Nothing “cures” endo except surgery, and even then the success rates are poor.

If you are treating it with hormones, you are not curing it any more than those treating it with the Pill.

There is a bulldog defense of the pill here and I don’t get it. I NEVER said the pill was morally wrong (to use for endo) nor did I even imply it.

Of course you did. And you still are - otherwise, why are you trying to draw this distinction between “treating” and “curing”?

 

[Regina7]

Nothing “cures” endo except surgery, and even then the success rates are poor.

If you are treating it with hormones, you are not curing it any more than those treating it with the Pill.

Of course you did. And you still are - otherwise, why are you trying to draw this distinction between “treating” and “curing”?

I was not the one who even mentioned the word cured. That was Listener. I never said napro cures endo, not did I say I was cured. I used the word cure to only define how I see it (by having more kids).

Underacloud, I’m done with this conversation. You repeatedly put words in my mouth.
Your wife can keep taking her birth control, I’ll keep seeing my Napro doctor, and OP can figure out what works best for her. Have a great night.

 

[bitterhope]

Thank you for your prayers. I offer you mine as well.

I’m happy to hear that other doctors offer patient-specific meds. I have not seen that anywhere. I wasn’t even offered it, even at Cleveland Clinic, which is supposed to be one of the best. I pray that more doctors start offering the treatment that you and your family get. Are these doctors military docs only? Sorry- I don’t know much about military healthcare.

I see mostly military drs, but occasionally specialists are civilian. But not all posts work the same way. This one is large and has mostly self contained health care provided by either soldiers or civilian providers. Children are referred out for most specialty appts but general pediatric appts are on post as well. Our Women’s health clinic is huge and they average 250+ babies born each month! I opted to see an OB/GYN off post though since he’s the deacon at out church, but since post is “full” I have no copays to see him either. If my military dr hadn’t referred me I might have to pay a portion though. All medicines including Tylenol or Benadryl are free if picked up on post at one if the pharmacies, but if you get them off post there is a minimal co pay. Medical equipment varies in price but often is free as well. Smaller posts have different systems, and I believe other branches of service have their own rules as well. Medical care is what keeps us reenlisting. Some of our kids require specialty care and services that we would never afford if it wasn’t for Tricare. And my hearing aids are covered 100%! I get new hearing aids every three years. If only they covered glasses…we have six kids in glasses now.

My sisters in law and the rest of my family are not military so they deal with the same insurance issues most Americans do.

 

[Regina7]

I see mostly military drs, but occasionally specialists are civilian. But not all posts work the same way. This one is large and has mostly self contained health care provided by either soldiers or civilian providers. Children are referred out for most specialty appts but general pediatric appts are on post as well. Our Women’s health clinic is huge and they average 250+ babies born each month! I opted to see an OB/GYN off post though since he’s the deacon at out church, but since post is “full” I have no copays to see him either. If my military dr hadn’t referred me I might have to pay a portion though. All medicines including Tylenol or Benadryl are free if picked up on post at one if the pharmacies, but if you get them off post there is a minimal co pay. Medical equipment varies in price but often is free as well. Smaller posts have different systems, and I believe other branches of service have their own rules as well. Medical care is what keeps us reenlisting. Some of our kids require specialty care and services that we would never afford if it wasn’t for Tricare. And my hearing aids are covered 100%! I get new hearing aids every three years. If only they covered glasses…we have six kids in glasses now.

My sisters in law and the rest of my family are not military so they deal with the same insurance issues most Americans do.

Thanks for the info. It sounds like a great system, though our military and their family certainly deserve it.

I love that your doctor is your deacon I’m sure you get sound medical advice.

 

[underacloud]

I was not the one who even mentioned the word cured.

Twice you have provided quotes, in direct reponse to me, to show that hormonal treatments do not cure endo.

Combination hormonal treatment is very effective for treating endometriosis. Hormonal treatment doesn’t “cure” endometriosis, but it may help with controlling pain by stopping your periods and preventing endometriosis from getting worse. Hormonal treatment, also known as “oral contraceptives” or “birth control pills” are used for many reasons other than trying to prevent pregnancy. From youngwomenshealth.org

From endometriosis.org

Like all the other hormonal treatments, the pill does not cure endometriosis. Rather, it alleviates the pain of endometriosis by suppressing menstruation and inhibiting the growth of the endometrial implants.

Underacloud, I’m done with this conversation. You repeatedly put words in my mouth.
Your wife can keep taking her birth control, I’ll keep seeing my Napro doctor, and OP can figure out what works best for her. Have a great night.

I haven’t put any words in your mouth, but I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m happy to leave it there too. We’ve both put forward our perspectives.

 

[TQGC]

Thank you all for your answers! I didn’t know about some things that were explained and I do appreciate your time in helping me.

 

[Listener]

People complain about using birth control pills to “mask the symptoms.” You are supposed to find the “underlying cause.” If the “underlying cause” turns out to be endometriosis, or PCOS, or something else, then the “underlying cause” turns out to be “hormonal imbalance.”

This was also true back in the 1960’s when I was dealing with similar problems. I remember taking some very expensive progesterone when I was pregnant back then, and the doctors recommended the pill for severe pain and bleeding, as they do now. Back then, as now, you either endure it, take the pill (or some other hormones), or have a hysterectomy.

The true “underlying cause” would be the reason why women have unbalanced hormones in the first place. Over 50 years have passed, and they apparently still don’t know the answer to this.

All of this is really a sad state of affairs.

If anyone here has actually experienced a permanent cure (other than by hormones or surgery), it would make a very informative thread.

 

[MJJean]

People complain about using birth control pills to “mask the symptoms.” You are supposed to find the “underlying cause.” If the “underlying cause” turns out to be endometriosis, or PCOS, or something else, then the “underlying cause” turns out to be “hormonal imbalance.”

This was also true back in the 1960’s when I was dealing with similar problems. I remember taking some very expensive progesterone when I was pregnant back then, and the doctors recommended the pill for severe pain and bleeding, as they do now. Back then, as now, you either endure it, take the pill (or some other hormones), or have a hysterectomy.

The true “underlying cause” would be the reason why women have unbalanced hormones in the first place. Over 50 years have passed, and they apparently still don’t know the answer to this.

All of this is really a sad state of affairs.

If anyone here has actually experienced a permanent cure (other than by hormones or surgery), it would make a very informative thread.

My sister was diagnosed with PCOS a few years ago. Due to the severity and the fact that she has 6 kids, the Dr recommended hysterectomy. Insurance wouldn’t cover it until she tried hormones first. She did hormone therapy and it did not help at all. After nearly a year, she had her surgery last month and has recovered, thank God.

Sissy endured extremely painful and very, very, very heavy menstrual cycles for years before diagnosis. She even got to the point where she was unable to have relations with her DH because it hurt her so badly.

My oldest DD also shows signs of PCOS. She’s unable to menstruate unless she takes two shots of hormones to jump start her cycles and then takes The Pill to keep them going. Due to the increased cancer risk, I am happy that she can take The Pill and preserve her uterus. She’s 21 and I want to be a grandma some day! Unfortunately, she cannot become pregnant on her own. But she will be able to become pregnant when the time is right with some medical help.

I went in to my Dr for a blood pressure meds refill and some blood work about a month ago. He wanted to do a hormone panel because of my weight (I diet and exercise) and some unusual hair growth. My thyroid is starting to go and there are indications I may also have PCOS. I’m waiting on more conclusive test results. Thankfully, I am 40 now and not having any more babies, so if I end up having to have a hysterectomy I won’t have to mourn fertility loss.

I wish we understood the condition better and had more treatment options, but we aren’t there yet.