Birth control and non-Catholics

[Jennifer_J]

I am not opposed to NFP for those of a couple–BOTH of them–who want to use it but I find this sort of preoccupation with the female bodily functions disturbing. All that temperature taking, and preoccupation with genitalia, no less, palpating the vulva, wiggling the cervix, testing the cervical mucus, I think is disgusting and excessively focussed on the female cycle, which the human race, especially men have disparaged and proscribed for centuries–dirty menstrual cycles, mandatory mikva after the period, no bat mitzva because a girl might be menstruating when she touches the Torah–horrors!-- all that sort of stuff.

It’s also not reliable for the vast majority of its practitioners.

I’m a physician, by the way.

This section–the red one–makes us ALL know that you have NO IDEA about any form of NFP at all (palpatating the vulva? whatever…). Not surprising coming from a Doctor, really, though the disgust shown toward the female body is a bit surprising. It makes me realize even more how lucky I am to have a Faithful, Catholic Doctor, who not only knows about NFP, but he and his wife have practiced it and his office doesn’t prescribe any contraceptives at all AND his practice is full and overflowing with patients.

If you’d ever like to know more about what NFP is about, try here:
nfpandmore.org

 

[mark_a]

I am not opposed to NFP for those of a couple–BOTH of them–who want to use it but I find this sort of preoccupation with the female bodily functions disturbing. All that temperature taking, and preoccupation with genitalia, no less, palpating the vulva, wiggling the cervix, testing the cervical mucus,

I can agree here. I have no desire to inform myself about or discuss these things with my wife.

I think is disgusting and excessively focussed on the female cycle, which the human race, especially men have disparaged and proscribed for centuries–dirty menstrual cycles, mandatory mikva after the period, no bat mitzva because a girl might be menstruating when she touches the Torah–horrors!-- all that sort of stuff.
It’s also not reliable for the vast majority of its practitioners.

I’m a physician, by the way.

I guess it would be safe to assume you are not a gynocologist.

The proscription of artificial birth control was the opening wedge in the divorce of the average Catholic from the official church in the US and Europe,

and from each other, as the popes have warned us.

If it weren’t for all the money still coming from the US to the Vatican, the US church would have been in schism years ago.

The Catholic Church cannot be in schism. Only the people who leave it can be in schism

 

[Swan]

I’d be interested to know how many non-Catholics do not believe in using artificial birth control?

I was just reading an article that said MOST Catholics use some form of artificial birth control. That really shocked me because I thought the percentage would be much lower than that.

I’m kind of an oddball, because I’ve never used what I call “invasive” birth control (the pill, IUD, a patch, a shot, or any of that stuff.) Not because I have religious views against it, but because I’m one of those “earth mother” types who believes in living naturally as much as possible. I don’t even take prescription drugs or OTC meds if I can at all avoid it! So I’m certainly not going to take some drug with unseen side effects, just to avoid pregnancy, or let them insert some sort of wire thingie inside me that could damage my insides.

We did use condoms and diaphragms when we were first married, but then we both took a 4 month class in Natural Family Planning which was held at a local Catholic church hall. We used NFP to achieve the pregnancies of our three children (I tended to have very irregular periods due to PCOS, and so NFP was a boon for us…without it, I never would have known when I was ovulating!)

With my last child, unfortunately I had a major uterine rupture which necessitated them removing the uterus and an ovary ((it was damaged in the rupture). I don’t miss the uterus (!), but I do miss the ability to use NFP because it was a very scientific form of what I call “body knowledge”, and it even worked to help my dr diagnose a medical condition unrelated to pregnancy, which is often signaled by abnormally high early morning basal body temps!

I can’t say enough about NFP, because it really helps a woman get familiar with her body, and it even helps give you a better body image because it shows you how well your body works! I just wish I could still use it.

I’d be interested in knowing if any other non-Catholics have used NFP, and what you think of it. Also, do you have anti-birth control views as well?

This family is Protestant and I KNOW they don’t believe in birth control! duggarfamily.com

My family is Southern Baptist with a few Pentecostals thrown in. I’ve also attended Methodist, Christian, and several non-denom churchs. I never heard anything about opposition to artificial birth control. When I converted to Catholicism I’d already had a tubal ligation so it was a non-issue for me (or so I thought). I add the last part because my disagreement with the RC on this issue is one of the reasons I left the RC.

 

[ChristianKnight]

I didn’t detect any typo in the blue highlighted quote above…anyone else…?

what? did I spell it wrong?

 

[NeedImprovement]

what? did I spell it wrong?/QUOTE

A stroke of genius that surpasses the freudian slip if you ask me.

In all honesty to your question ChristianKnight - No, you didn’t spell it wrong…everybody else including the dictionaries spell it wrong. !!

 

[ChristianKnight]

ChristianKnight;3990364:

what? did I spell it wrong?

freudian?

I am hoping thats not sarcasm cause I am very

 

[Jennifer_J]

ChristianKnight:

You spelled CONDOMS wrong–you spelled it “condemns”

 

[ChristianKnight]

ChristianKnight;3990422:

You spelled CONDOMS wrong–you spelled it “condemns”

lol, o well, I think people know what I was typing.

 

[NeedImprovement]

NeedImprovement;3990419:

freudian?

I am hoping thats not sarcasm cause I am very

…Wasn’t intended as sarcasm at all CK.

I used to be a musician. Sometimes while writing a song with other musicians, someone would make a mistake -play something unintentional, but on occasion that mistake would end up being much better than the original idea…that’s how I saw your post.

Additionally, you also provided a smile for a lot of us on a thread discussing a difficult subject…very nicely done- intentional or not.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

His comments are one of many reasons why I distrust doctors and their allies, the drug companies. I’m sure there is a good reason why the Greek word which “pharmacy” derives from (pharmakon) originally meant “magic potion” and “poison”!

I bet you wouldn’t “distrust doctors and their allies” if you were in the emergency room in cardiac arrest or suffering from cancer…

 

[BlestOne]

I bet you wouldn’t “distrust doctors and their allies” if you were in the emergency room in cardiac arrest or suffering from cancer…

Bet me! Yes I would distrust them but I would also accept their help… if my life depended on it… What is the problem with that? Are you saying you have to trust everyone you come into contact with?

 

[1234]

I believe I had once read that most (or all, don’t remember)
Christian denominations were opposed to artifical birth control
until the 1940’s. The Catholic Church had stood it’s ground,
one of the many reasons I am happy to be Catholic!

If I am incorrect about the above, please correct me but I am
pretty sure that is accurate.

I believe the AC changed its attitude beginning in the 1920’s. Birth control jad become feasible and there was a lot of medical sociological research beginning to be published about the advantages of spacing families.

But the main point is that no other religion, whether Protestant, Orthodox, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, or Islam issues edicts regarding the conduct of one’s personal life. Leaders might have opinions,but they aren’t binding. There is *no other pope-equivalent *in any other major religion, including Islam. The notorious fundamentalist Mormons in Texas and small fundamentalist groups may be an exception. Even ultra-Orthodox Jews allow birth control and sterilization for medical reasons. Hutterite and Amish families are smaller now than in the past.

 

[1234]

My family is Southern Baptist with a few Pentecostals thrown in. I’ve also attended Methodist, Christian, and several non-denom churchs. I never heard anything about opposition to artificial birth control. When I converted to Catholicism I’d already had a tubal ligation so it was a non-issue for me (or so I thought). I add the last part because my disagreement with the RC on this issue is one of the reasons I left the RC.

Good for you. You left on principle, even though the issue didn’t affect you directly. So many people don’t think if how doctrines affect others, as long as they themselves aren’t affected.

 

[1234]

This section–the red one–makes us ALL know that you have NO IDEA about any form of NFP at all (palpatating the vulva? whatever…). Not surprising coming from a Doctor, really, though the disgust shown toward the female body is a bit surprising. It makes me realize even more how lucky I am to have a Faithful, Catholic Doctor, who not only knows about NFP, but he and his wife have practiced it and his office doesn’t prescribe any contraceptives at all AND his practice is full and overflowing with patients.

If you’d ever like to know more about what NFP is about, try here:
nfpandmore.org

There are many different types of NFP, which attests to their overall ineffectiveness. One of these, I don’t know which one, does use the methods I refer to, to try to figure out when a woman is ovulating–it’s not always obvious.

Your wonderful doctor may have a full waiting room because:

*there is a shortage of doctors in his area.
*his secretary overbooks
*his patients see him for problems unrelated to family planning
*his patients are always sick or pregnant.

I’m a female doctor by the way.

 

[Sepharad]

I bet you wouldn’t “distrust doctors and their allies” if you were in the emergency room in cardiac arrest or suffering from cancer…

I am VERY careful which doctors I go to when I do go to them…and this is for a very good reason. In fact I joined a private ambulance company so that I have more of a choice should I ever need to call an ambulance…the hospital closest to us (the one the city ambulance would take you to) is absolutely horrible and everyone here avoids going there if at all possible.

I will use doctors but with MUCH caution. I don’t trust people who often like to think that MD stands for “minor deity”.

 

[Jennifer_J]

There are many different types of NFP, which attests to their overall ineffectiveness. One of these, I don’t know which one, does use the methods I refer to, to try to figure out when a woman is ovulating–it’s not always obvious.

Your wonderful doctor may have a full waiting room because:

*there is a shortage of doctors in his area.
*his secretary overbooks
*his patients see him for problems unrelated to family planning
*his patients are always sick or pregnant.

I’m a female doctor by the way.

The different methods of NFP had various focal points:
Billings–Mucous only observations, both internal and external

Sympto-thermal–basal temps, mucous observations (internal and external), and cervix position

Creighton–standardized mucous observations–external only

Marquete model–adds ovulation monitors (clear blue easy fertility monitor) to sympto-thermal or mucous methods.

These variations have nothing to do with effectiveness–though some methods work better for some women than others (many women don’t like to take temps or would prefer not to check cervix, etc). NFP is as effective as the person who uses it and chooses to follow the guidelines. I have used NFP off and on for over 11 years. It works great and is as effective as dh and I want it to be. We just happen to be very open to having children.

BTW, None of these methods involve palpatating the vulva, because that wouldn’t tell you anything. at all. nothing. about your fertility.

My doc is popular because he is NFP only, a devout Catholic and a good doc. He’s respectful of his patients and values human life from conception to natural death.

–no shortage of docs in my area
–not overbooked anymore than any other doc
–he’s a family doc and delivers babies, the whole family sees him
–I doubt his patients are always sick and pregnant

I highly doubt you are a doctor and I highly doubt that you know anything in depth about NFP other than misinformation you picked up from somewhere.

 

[NeedImprovement]

I am VERY careful which doctors I go to when I do go to them…and this is for a very good reason. In fact I joined a private ambulance company so that I have more of a choice should I ever need to call an ambulance…the hospital closest to us (the one the city ambulance would take you to) is absolutely horrible and everyone here avoids going there if at all possible.
I will use doctors but with MUCH caution. I don’t trust people who often like to think that MD stands for “minor deity”.

It’s the same here. I live near the westernmost point of the island of Montreal (suburbs) and the closest hospital is horrible not only for service, but there have been some badly bothched surgeries too. I’m talking family members and close friends - not rumors.

For years there was a 5 hour wait to be seen in the emergency dept.

It still boils down to the individual doctor too, but you are so right
Sepharad: God made all men equal, but man didn’t make all hospitals equal; and even in good hospitals today one can still encounter not so good doctors.

 

[Sepharad]

It’s the same here. I live near the westernmost point of the island of Montreal (suburbs) and the closest hospital is horrible not only for service, but there have been some badly bothched surgeries too. I’m talking family members and close friends - not rumors.

For years there was a 5 hour wait to be seen in the emergency dept.

It still boils down to the individual doctor too, but you are so right
Sepharad: God made all men equal, but man didn’t make all hospitals equal; and even in good hospitals today one can still encounter not so good doctors.

Im in a similar situation…when we first moved to this area, friends warned me to move closer to the center of the section of town. I couldnt figure out why, since the entire section is very nice, inexpensive, low crime, etc

The hospital was one of the reasons, I found out, that they advised that. If we had moved just a few city blocks over to the west, we’d be in the range for the city ambulance to take us to the MUCH better hospital!

I learned all this the hard way when my mom had to go to the hospital earlier this year, my husband was not home to take her to the better hospital, and since I can’t drive, I had no choice but to call the city amb (I didnt know of the private amb service at the time.) They took her to the lousy hospital (which sadly is the Catholic one…but they take a lot of charity cases and are overwhelmed due to that much of the time)…she ended up dying there, and she wasn’t bad at all when she went in there.

 

[BlestOne]

There are many different types of NFP, which attests to their overall ineffectiveness. One of these, I don’t know which one, does use the methods I refer to, to try to figure out when a woman is ovulating–it’s not always obvious.

Your wonderful doctor may have a full waiting room because:

*there is a shortage of doctors in his area.
*his secretary overbooks
*his patients see him for problems unrelated to family planning
*his patients are always sick or pregnant.

I’m a female doctor by the way.

OK this makes me doubt you are a doctor at all… at least not a medical doctor anyway. Yes, there are many different types of NFP but it has to do with what information is used and how… not it’s effectiveness.

Some methods work better for people with special needs like women with PCOS or women with other problems gynecological problems.

Why do you hate your own body so much? What about it is as you said, “disgusting”? Just curious…

 

[1234]

Bet me! Yes I would distrust them but I would also accept their help… if my life depended on it… What is the problem with that? Are you saying you have to trust everyone you come into contact with?

Most people trust their doctors.