Birth control for very serious reasons

[itsjustdave1988]

The reason is that one can not use a bad mean to achieve a good goal. But this is exactly what the Church allowed in case of the capital punishment or for instance when somebody steals something to survive (food or money).

I suggest you need to study Catholic moral theology a bit more, as the conclusion you’ve drawn above is completely false.

Capital punishment is not intrinsically evil. God himself used it. It can be and most often IS evil in its application. However, that is far different than presuming that executing a criminal as a punishment for his crime is always an unjust means to an end.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Futhermore, you are aware that artificial contraception is not 100% effective, right? So, if pregnancy truly will place your wife in that much risk, I suggest you abstain from sex altogether.

Catholic moral theology states that when you have a choice between two or more evils, one is bound to choose the lesser of two evils. For example, when a mother is solely faced with the choice of only evil options, such as the evil of allowing her child to starve to death or the evil option of stealing, none of which is a good action, then she must take the lesser of two evils. If there was a third choice for this women, one that was not evil, then the woman must morally choose the third choice, even if stealing was the most convenient choice. In the moral dilemma, she must consider the necessity of the situation.

This is not the case in your situation. You have more than just a choice bewteen two or more evils. You can choose a good. You can choose to abstain from sex altogether. If your wife is truly in danger of death if she becomes pregnant, do you really want to trust a latex condemn or some other untrustworthy birth control method? The only safe option is to abstain.

Now, if the situation is not as grave as you portrayed, then I suggest that NFP is just as effective as any aritificial birth control method. If you need more information about NFP, I recommend contacting the Couple-to-Couple League for assistance: ccli.org/

God bless, and good luck.

 

[josea]

Thanks all for your comments, I learned a lot.

I am a very religious person and I will follow the Church teachings but I would also like that, at the same time the Church tell us what to do in such cases, a better a realistic way to handle the problem. Today the acces to the good understanding and practice of the natural methods is very very limited. In many places is not even an option. It is simply not known and not trusted.
Only a little comment: the pill offers almost 100% efectivity and natural methods are only secure if there is not mistake at all by the woman using them.
Who told you that anticonception is “intrinsic evil” ? I am still a bit afraid of a moral made by philosophers, about a moral in which regulation and normative is made by consensus of persons in different sesions (the HV needed three different ones) where the conclusions are not even accepted by all.
Is that the will of God? How do you know that? I know , I know the issue about the infability of definitive declarations.
That is why I doubt it and, intellectually, I do not see a soultion to the problem. I have to accept it by faith and I will.
Regards,
Jose

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Only a little comment: the pill offers almost 100% efectivity and natural methods are only secure if there is not mistake at all by the woman using them.

I’ve read studies where NFP is just as effective as the pill. The package on the pill doesn’t even say that it is 100% effective, if I’m not mistaken.

See here: geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2879/primer.html

 

[felra]

josea:

Thanks all for your comments, I learned a lot.

I am a very religious person and I will follow the Church teachings but I would also like that, at the same time the Church tell us what to do in such cases, a better a realistic way to handle the problem. Today the acces to the good understanding and practice of the natural methods is very very limited. In many places is not even an option. It is simply not known and not trusted.

Regards,
Jose

God bless you for your holy assent to the Church’s teachings…here are some resources on NFP:

NFP Teaching Organizations

http://www.catholicmom.com/_themes/copy-of-canvas/arrowicongold.gifBillings Ovulation Method Association USA

http://www.catholicmom.com/_themes/copy-of-canvas/arrowicongold.gifCouple To Couple League International (symptothermal method)

http://www.catholicmom.com/_themes/copy-of-canvas/arrowicongold.gifMarquette University School of Nursing (symptothermal method including the optional use of the Clearblue Easy fertility monitor)

http://www.catholicmom.com/_themes/copy-of-canvas/arrowicongold.gifPope Paul VI Institute For The Study of Human Reproduction (Creighton model)

**MISCELLANEOUS RESOURCES
**
One More Soul - A pro-life, pro-NFP apostolate with a great deal of useful, supportive online information, a directory of NFP centers, instructors and NFP-only physicians and an extensive catalog of related books and tapes.

 

[fix]

josea:

Thanks all for your comments, I learned a lot.
In many places is not even an option. It is simply not known and not trusted.

Many may not know it, but that does not mean it is notr effective. It is effective and moral.

Only a little comment: the pill offers almost 100% efectivity and natural methods are only secure if there is not mistake at all by the woman using them.

The only 100% effective means is abstaince or complete hysterectomy.

Who told you that anticonception is “intrinsic evil” ?

The catechism of the catholic Church and 2000 years of Church teaching!

(the HV needed three different ones) where the conclusions are not even accepted by all.

Who cares who accepted it? Truth is not arrived at by consensus. Christ is Truth. Truth is a person. He says it is intrinsically evil. Enough said.

Is that the will of God? How do you know that?

Christ found one Church. The Church has the fullness of truth. The holy Spirit speaks infallibly through the Church.

Why do you belive Christ is God? Why do you believe in heaven? Why do you think the 10 commandments are accurate? Did you arrive at these because you accept that the Church is our teacher, or did you acept these things by your private will?

 

[itsjustdave1988]

the pill offers almost 100% efectivity

By the way, the pill is an abortificient, which is certainly grave sin that a faithful Catholic ought not to ever contemplate. The sympto-thermal method offers almost 100% effectivity, and it neither kills the embryo, nor does it have all the other nasty side effects that the pill does.

 

[mercygate]

josea:

Thanks all for your comments, I learned a lot.

Today the acces to the good understanding and practice of the natural methods is very very limited.

Actually the understanding now is very clear and very effective.

Who told you that anticonception is “intrinsic evil” ?

Actually it begins in natural law, as others have mentioned. It was not until 1930 that ANY Christian group permitted contraception. ANY! Contraception has always been universally understood to subvert the marriage act.

I am still a bit afraid of a moral made by philosophers, . . .

I think you are actually a bit afraid of getting pregnant . . .

That is why I doubt it and, intellectually, I do not see a soultion to the problem.

From what you say, and from your questions, I don’t think you have truly given the “intellectual” part of this a fair hearing. It IS a bit difficult for us who are swamped in the pleasure-for-pleasure’s sake culture. But it is not intellectually inaccessible. Pray for the grace of wisdom and understanding.

I have to accept it by faith and I will.
Regards,
Jose

May your holy acceptance lead you to both understanding and to rejoicing in this most beautiful truth about the dignity of the human person and our relationship with our Creator and God.

 

[josea]

I do not konw of anybod ygetting pregnant taking the pill and many, many cases close to me of getting pregnant using naturla methods. There is a clear difference.

Please, get informed, the pill is not abortive, it blocks ovulation, nothing else, and if you mean that in the rare case of fecundation the pill could induce an abortion because the body is not ready to receive the fecundate oocite, it should moraly be seen as a secundary effect, using the same method you do to argue about this issues.

It is a bit strange: you are allowed to use an “intrinsic evil” mean for other reasons as cycle control or therapy… and then the anticonceptive effect is the secondary one…although the mean you use to cure is “intrinsic evil”.(???)
Sorry but this kind of things reminds me the complicated rounds abouts of the pharisees.
Are we not constructing the same type of moral?
Again, I am not sure Jesus forbides directly the use of artificial methods as some posted here. Who told you that?
Anyways… serviam!

 

[josea]

Nobody has without any doubtdefinitively declared these teachings as infalible. Even this very issue about the infability of the HV is still not clear or,a t least, it is not universally accepted by catholic theology. There is not a clear consensus about it. What should we then believe?

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Josea,

What should we then believe?

You are to give your religious assent of mind and will to any doctrine of the authentic magisterium, whether it is infallibly defined or not.

St. Catherine of Sienna, doctor of the Church:

He left you this sweet key of obedience; for as you know He left His vicar, the Christ, on earth, whom you are all obliged to obey until death, and whoever is outside His obedience is in a state of damnation" (Dialogue, Treatise on Obedience)

"He is insane who rises or acts contrary to this Vicar who holds the keys of the blood of Christ crucified. Even if he was a demon incarnate, I should not raise my head against him, but always grovel and ask for the blood out of mercy. And don’t pay attention to what the demon proposes to you and you propose under the color of virtue, that is to say to want to do justice against evil pastors regarding their fault. Don’t trust the demon: don’t try to do justice about what does not concern you. God wants neither you nor anyone else to set themselves up as a righter of the wrongs of His ministers. He reserves judgment to Himself, and He reserves it to His Vicar; and if the Vicar does not do justice, we should wait for the punishment and correction on the part of the sovereign judge, God Eternal." (Letters, Vol. I. Letter No. 28)

From Venerable John Henry Cardinal Newman:

I say with Cardinal Bellarmine whether the Pope be infallible or not in any pronouncement, anyhow he is to be obeyed. No good can come from disobedience. His facts and his warnings may be all wrong; his deliberations may have been biassed. He may have been misled. Imperiousness and craft, tyranny and cruelty, may be patent in the conduct of his advisers and instruments. But when he speaks formally and authoritatively he speaks as our Lord would have him speak, and all those imperfections and sins of individuals are overruled for that result which our Lord intends (just as the action of the wicked and of enemies to the Church are overruled) and **therefore the Pope’s word stands, and a blessing goes with obedience to it, and no blessing with disobedience. **
[John Henry Newman, “'The Oratory, Novr. 10, 1867”, The Genius of Newman (1914), by Wilfrid Ward, Vol II, Ch. 26, http://www.newmanreader.org/biography/ward/volume2/chapter26.html”]http://www.newmanreader.org/biography/ward/volume2/chapter26.html

]

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Josea,

Using the pill is not intrinsically evil. There are other threads that discuss this in more depth, explaining the ethical principle of double-effect. Using the pill to willfully render sex non-procreative, is immoral.

Humanae Vitae teaches that any human acts which willfully render marital conjugal acts non-procreative is immoral. This is taught in a papal encyclical, which demands your consent according to the Catholic Church, whether you believe it to be an infallible teaching or not.

Heb 13:17 “Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.”

 

[tTt]

Many people can tell you that they have had children that were surprises or unwanted. If birth control is so perfect then how could this be?

Maybe ABC fail?

In your case, can you live with the consequences of ABC failure? the fetus may have die or your wife may have to

These are serious reasons, Yes

Choose wisely

 

[fix]

Contraception- intrinsic evil?
Question from Johnb on 11-24-2004: Hi.

Recently a question about contraception was answered by a priest on this forum. He said that Humane Vitae may or may not be infallible by the ordinary magisterium. He said there is a difference of opinion by orthodox theologians.

I have three questions:

1. Is contraception intrinsically evil? If it is then it may never be done in any age and for any reason.
2. Even if not decalared infallible, it still may not be don under pain of mortal sin?
3. If not infallible, it may be changed in the future to become morally licit? Thanks. Why does the Vatican not come out with straight talk about these issues and clear them up so the faithful may know how to lead their lives???

Answer by Judie Brown on 11-26-2004: Dear John

Contraception is intrinsically evil.

If the practitioner of contraception KNOWS what the Church teaches and persists, he or she is committing a mortal sin.

Humanae Vitae is Infallible. Please see the following documents, each of which are on the Internet:

Contraception: Fatal to the Faith by Father John Hardon, S.J. at catholic-pages.com/morality/fatal.asp

and “Humanae Vitae and Infallibilty” by Father Brian Harrison, O.S. at www.ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/FR93102.TXT By the way, the Vatican is very clear; but the sad thing is that the American moral theologains and many of the Bishops are NOT! Judie Brown

ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=419942&Forums=0&Experts=10&Days=30&Author=&Keyword=intrinsic+evil&pgnu=1&groupnum=0

 

[fix]

re: Infallible Declarations
Question from Don Parker on 11-26-2004: Judie. I also am totally confused; however, it’s over the word ‘infallible’. Because of the continual disagreement between people, even here in these forums, I’ve simply resorted to the Catechism.

With respect to artificial birth control, contraception, the Catechism says that artificial birth control is against the Sixth Commandment, and it states,

2370… “every action which, …proposes, … to render procreation impossible, is intrinsically evil…”

And,

2399 The regulation of births…do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).

Paragraph 2370 is quoting Hamanae Vitae. I have shortened it to present that essence that I’m talking about. I am at a total loss over those who want to argue whether something is/is not an infallible statement. It’s as clear as the nose on my face, from the Catechism (quoted above)that I am commiting a mortal sin if I use artificial birth control, or if I undergo a vasectomy. Why? Because the Catechism states that these things are “intrinsic evils” and “morally unacceptable.”

Now, I suppose that the next level of dissent over these statements, in looking for loopholes, is whether the Catechism is infallible. Whether-or-not something is ‘infallible’ is to my mind absolutely NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is whether that action constitutes a mortal sin, for, it is mortal sin that makes me an enemy of God, stains my soul and will prevent me from attaining Heaven and Purgatory. It is mortal sin, even just one, which, if not forgiven in the confessional, will send me to Hell for all eternity. That is our Catholic teaching and the most important point where Faith and Morals cross paths. Thank you. Don

Answer by Judie Brown on 11-27-2004: Dear Don

Amen and thank you! Ever heard of people arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Well this kind of “theologian squabble” is a good example. Simply put, your view is the right one, and the only one that matters. God be with you. Judie Brown

ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=420077&Forums=0&Experts=10&Days=30&Author=&Keyword=intrinsic+evil&pgnu=1&groupnum=0

 

[felra]

josea:

Nobody has without any doubtdefinitively declared these teachings as infalible. Even this very issue about the infability of the HV is still not clear or,a t least, it is not universally accepted by catholic theology. There is not a clear consensus about it. What should we then believe?

Thanks** fix** and **itsjustdave **for taking the hole out of loophole with those great quotes from those powerhouse fighters for the faith. Now, the question to those interested parties is, “How much do I want to know and accept and live the Truth?”. Pray to the Holy Spirit for the desire and will to know and live the Truth.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

To believe contraception is an “instrinsic evil” is one that cannot be logically argued in an absolute way. All of the arguments by its proponents have fallen short of “proving” beyond reasonable doubt that it is evil by some Biblical authority.

Therefore it is up to you if you believe the “instrinsic evil” teaching, or not, as a matter of faith in the Church and not as one which can be logically, scientifically or Biblically defended. It boils down to an issue of faith and morals, so you either believe the Church teaching or not, as the infallible determiner of faith and morals issues.

Alan

 

[fix]

AlanFromWichita:

To believe contraception is an “instrinsic evil” is one that cannot be logically argued in an absolute way. All of the arguments by its proponents have fallen short of “proving” beyond reasonable doubt that it is evil by some Biblical authority.

Therefore it is up to you if you believe the “instrinsic evil” teaching, or not, as a matter of faith in the Church and not as one which can be logically, scientifically or Biblically defended. It boils down to an issue of faith and morals, so you either believe the Church teaching or not, as the infallible determiner of faith and morals issues.

Alan

Alan,

I have had read this post three times and am still uncertain of your point? I think you are saying we must accept the Church? ABC is intrinsically evil when used during the conjugal act. This is not a new teaching. Even early Church writings show this. The bible shows us as well that contraception is a moral evil. We can reason from natural law, the bible and Church teachings that it is an intrinsic evil.

In the end, we know Christ founded the Church to save souls. She speaks with authority. Either we accept all She teaches, or we reject Her. In other words, either we accept Her authority or we do not. There is no debate, contraception is intrinsically evil and may never be done during the conjugal act. This is not my opinion, it is the teaching of the Catholic Church.

 

[MamaGeek]

josea:

Nobody has without any doubtdefinitively declared these teachings as infalible. Even this very issue about the infability of the HV is still not clear or,a t least, it is not universally accepted by catholic theology. There is not a clear consensus about it. What should we then believe?

It sounds to me like you are not really looking for the truth here, but a justification for a decision you’ve already made. Do you really want the answer, because you’ve gotten it, and are rejecting it.

As for infalibility, as Catholics, we are required to follow all the teachings laid out in the Catechism, and nothing could be clearer than what it says about contraception.

What is the medical problem with your wife? Is there any chance that if she got pregnant she or the baby would survive? Is there some other medical reason that may justify a hysterectomy?

Birth Control is abortifacient. The makers of the pill originally made it only anti-ovulatory. The amounts needed to be effective, however, were too dangerous, so they added a component to prevent implantation of an already-fertilized egg. This is not a secondary effect. On the pill, a woman’s womb is inhospitable to life. It is an intentional ingredient found in every birth-control pill out there.

 

[josea]

I think this is the key here. Contraception is intrinsically evil because so has been defined by studying the Scripture and the teachings of the Fathers and the Church so accepeted , even against the almost common agreement (30 to 5 votes) within the Papal Commission on Birth Control consulted before the HV.

I think this is just a matter of tradition.

How can be an “intrinsic evil” be demonstrated that it is so? For me it is very clear in the rest of cases issued by the commandments and the basic natural law, but very difficult to see in the case of contraception due to serious reasons.
Somebody told me before that I have not fairly heard all intelectual reasons to have a fair thinking about this issue. I just have to look at the amount of various opinions among different catholic theologians, pristers and orders to see that it is not so easy to achive and “intelectual and reasonable” reason for the situation created in the Church regarding this issue.

There is a page that explains this better than me:

http://members.aol.com/revising/download/site.html

What do you think?

Regards,

Jose