Birth control in certain circumstances?

[flyingfish]

Flyingfish-I think marriage is more about two becoming one. It’s a partnership in some ways, but in some ways it’s a new body.

I agree with you that it’s important to be sexual with a spouse-I totally agree with that. It is a big deal, but it’s a big deal BECAUSE it’s more than a partnership-it’s two becoming one. There are two sides to this-lovemaking (IN A MARRIAGE) is very important-it’s crucial to some people. However, marriage is SO MUCH MORE than just making love.

Just my opinion…

I’m not saying sex is all there is. I’m saying realistically, once the sex stopped the connection and the feeling of closeness would decline. It’s not like I’d say “oh, you can’t have sex anymore, see ya”, but gradually , as there was no physical connection, the emotional connection would lessen as well until I no longer saw him as anything more than a friend.

I’m just being realistic. I don’t think it can work for most people unless neither spouse has a sex drive anymore.

Your feeling of “two becoming one” wouldn’t last without the sexual interaction to maintain it in my opinion. Have you ever been in a purely platonic relationship? It doesn’t feel like a relationship, it feels like a friendship.

 

[Rascalking]

I’m not saying sex is all there is. I’m saying realistically, once the sex stopped the connection and the feeling of closeness would decline. It’s not like I’d say “oh, you can’t have sex anymore, see ya”, but gradually , as there was no physical connection, the emotional connection would lessen as well until I no longer saw him as anything more than a friend.

I’m just being realistic. I don’t think it can work for most people unless neither spouse has a sex drive anymore.

Your feeling of “two becoming one” wouldn’t last without the sexual interaction to maintain it in my opinion. Have you ever been in a purely platonic relationship? It doesn’t feel like a relationship, it feels like a friendship.

Personally, I think you make some great points that I don’t disagree with. I think too many hardcore Catholics view lovemaking as something you just “stop” without consequences.

But I do see both sides.

 

[mommamaree]

I think too many hardcore Catholics view lovemaking as something you just “stop” without consequences.

So glad to see that I am not alone is believing that the sexual aspect of a loving marriage is not as easily dispensable as some claim. Maybe some people see it as such, but I crave that physical connection with my husband (notice the emphasis upon connection, not satisfaction) and I believe it is vital and that prolonged abstinence is what would constitute a trial for a couple, something they should only go through with ample support from their priest and trusted confidantes who can guide them on how to maintain their bond in nonsexual ways.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

FlyingFish, some of the most intensely emotional connections in life can occur without sexual relationships. LIke a parent and child. (Please God, no sex there!) On other posts you have discussed very honestly your emotional distance from people and your desire to keep things that way. And that is your prerogative. However, many people on this forum took vows for better or for worse, in sickness and in health till death do you part. And part of that vow is the responsibility to remain with that person and faithful despite illness, accidents, impotency onset or other issues.

No one said sex was easy to dispense with. I just find it kind of appalling that so many place it at the top of the list. There are a lot of marriages with lots of sex and the people are in no way emotionally connected. Those marriages fail eventually.

I just think it’s sad to say to a spouse “I know you can’t have sex anymore. That’s YOUR cross. Now not only will you lose that, you’ll lose ME and all the love we shared and the emotional connection. I’m going to find myself someone who can have sex with me. But we can be friends still, right?”

Marriage means sharing the burdens as well as the blessings.

 

[flyingfish]

I just think it’s sad to say to a spouse “I know you can’t have sex anymore. That’s YOUR cross. Now not only will you lose that, you’ll lose ME and all the love we shared and the emotional connection. I’m going to find myself someone who can have sex with me. But we can be friends still, right?”

I think you’re missing my point. I’m saying the loss of the connection would naturally happen for many people as a result of the loss of the physical connection. It wouldn’t be something within anyone’s control. The feelings will simply disappear until you only view the person as a friend, not a mate.

From your description of yourself, you sound like a middle aged woman with children, maybe you’ve had menopause? Maybe from your perspective you might think “what’s the big deal if there is no sex”, but do you think you would have thought this when you were in your 20’s?

 

[Liberanosamalo]

No, I"m not a middle aged woman who has been through menopause. I understand the big deal about sex. But my spouse left me when I was a young wife and mother and I have learned that one actually can live without sex and not curl up in a ball and die. And one can have strong emotional relationships with people that don’t end in bed. And I know if I was married to a man who loved me, and something happened to him, that I could continue to love him and hold him and make him feel secure and loved and not abandoned. Because I do know one thing: Sex is not all there is. As a matter of fact, there is nothing emptier than sex with someone who does not love you. I’d rather have love without the sex than sex without the love.

 

[kage_ar]

I think you’re missing my point. I’m saying the loss of the connection would naturally happen for many people as a result of the loss of the physical connection. It wouldn’t be something within anyone’s control. The feelings will simply disappear until you only view the person as a friend, not a mate.

From your description of yourself, you sound like a middle aged woman with children, maybe you’ve had menopause? Maybe from your perspective you might think “what’s the big deal if there is no sex”, but do you think you would have thought this when you were in your 20’s?

Good heavens, you do realize that one’s sex drive does not die because one turns 40 or has a baby, right? In fact, many women have an increased sex drive after age 35/40.

Marriage is not something you throw away because a romantic pink fluffy bunny feeling disappears. I pray you grow up before you marry anyone.

 

[Calliso]

I’m not saying sex is all there is. I’m saying realistically, once the sex stopped the connection and the feeling of closeness would decline. It’s not like I’d say “oh, you can’t have sex anymore, see ya”, but gradually , as there was no physical connection, the emotional connection would lessen as well until I no longer saw him as anything more than a friend.

I’m just being realistic. I don’t think it can work for most people unless neither spouse has a sex drive anymore.

Your feeling of “two becoming one” wouldn’t last without the sexual interaction to maintain it in my opinion. Have you ever been in a purely platonic relationship? It doesn’t feel like a relationship, it feels like a friendship.

As a person who is living in a situation of extended long term abstinence we are talking years here I would say you pretty on the ball here. I can;t say I see my husband as a friend I still love him. But I can;t deny the lack of physical connection has made it much harder to feel that special bond that marriage couples in love should. I definately felt closer to him when we weren;t abstaining.

 

[Calliso]

Another thought is do we even know how long the op needs to take this medicine? I mean yeah if we are just talking monthes I would recommend just abstaining for that period of time. But if this is a long term years type of thing, based on my own experience I can;t say that it would be good advice to abstain for years. Another thing I wonder if there is any other possible medication she could be taking one with less risk. I guess as a noncatholic I admit my first thought is ask about alternatives first otherwise listen to your doctor. Otherwise my advice would be super conservative nfp maybe with fertility moniter and pray you donlt get pregnant.

But the more I think about it the more it does sound like this is the type of thing she would only be on for monthes.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Reading this thread has made me very sad. But, it does help in part to explain the divorce rate in this country. When people stopped realizing that there were three in a marriage–God, husband, wife–and stopped recognizing marriage as a sacrament and a lifelong commitment, that is when things took a turn for the worst. Since vows have gone from " 'Til death do us part" to " 'Til our love ends" and “I will love you and honor you all the days of my life” to “I affirm the relationship we have enjoyed” and “As long as we both shall live” to “As long as we are bound by our love,” the strength of marriage in this country has definitely been eroded.

 

[PaulinVA]

I’m not saying sex is all there is. I’m saying realistically, once the sex stopped the connection and the feeling of closeness would decline. It’s not like I’d say “oh, you can’t have sex anymore, see ya”, but gradually , as there was no physical connection, the emotional connection would lessen as well until I no longer saw him as anything more than a friend.

I’m just being realistic. I don’t think it can work for most people unless neither spouse has a sex drive anymore.

Your feeling of “two becoming one” wouldn’t last without the sexual interaction to maintain it in my opinion. Have you ever been in a purely platonic relationship? It doesn’t feel like a relationship, it feels like a friendship.

FF, unless you die together, one spouse is going to take care of the other at some point toward the end of life.

Don’t we acknowledge that when we get married? Until death do us part. I would never abandon my wife because she is sick with a chronic disease. Never.

To be on topic - my wife is on a drug that causes birth defects, and has been for eleven years (pray for her liver). We use conservative STM rules. Sometimes we wait a extra day or two after the infertile time starts. It works. But, if all we could ever do is lay together in bed and talk about our lives, our hopes and dreams, the kids, our relationship, what we are feeling - that would be our intimacy.

 

[agapewolf]

FF, unless you die together, one spouse is going to take care of the other at some point toward the end of life.

Don’t we acknowledge that when we get married? Until death do us part. I would never abandon my wife because she is sick with a chronic disease. Never.

To be on topic - my wife is on a drug that causes birth defects, and has been for eleven years (pray for her liver). We use conservative STM rules. Sometimes we wait a extra day or two after the infertile time starts. It works. But, if all we could ever do is lay together in bed and talk about our lives, our hopes and dreams, the kids, our relationship, what we are feeling - that would be our intimacy.

That’s the thing. Those who have to abstain can’t just cut out sex and expect things to be good. It has to be replaced with other big efforts of maintaining the relationship with God and each other. It will be more difficult and more work, but the graces gained from it will be amazing.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

You can still have an emotional relationship… isn’t that sometimes more important than a physical relationship? (Ask anyone whose spouse is on the internet having an emotional affair.)

 

[gardenswithkids]

Some seem to think that what goes on in the bedroom is exclusively the business of the husband and wife. If that is the case, why would it matter what the doctor recommends? If those that hold that philosophy were consistent, doctors and pharmacists wouldn’t have any business getting involved with what going on between husbands and wives either. Hmm.

To the op–I commend you and your husband for trying to follow the Church’s guidelines on marriage and family. Yes, the Church does allow birth control in certain circumstances, and you have been using it. The Church allows “NFP” when there are significant reasons to avoid pregnancy, and if you take this medicine seems that you have a serious reason for avoiding pregnancy.

Maybe you can speak to your doctor (or perhaps get another opinion) to see if there is an alternative medication. If you refuse to use contraception as the doctor suggests, s/he might consider other options for medication. The doctor might not have realized that contraception presented a serious moral issue for you. It’s worth asking. Prayers for you and whatever medical condition you have.

 

[former_Catholic]

My husband and I practice NFP and have done so since we were married 2.5 years ago. We have a 5 month old, and believe that God is calling us to wait to have another baby until we see where our finances will go (there is a strong possibility I will be laid off in the next 6 months). Without getting too deep into detail, my doctor would like me to take a medication that is known to cause birth defects. He is strongly urging me to go on birth control because of the high risks. Would this be ok if my husband and I still did NFP and avoided relations around my fertile time?

You are under extreme physiological stress: you have a 5 month old
You are under extreme physiological stress: you may well be laid off in the next 6 months
You are under extreme physiological stress: you are exhibiting physical symptoms from your extremely stressful life that are sufficiently severe that your doctor feels they should be treated with medication (and/or your doctor is simply financing a new vacation condo with kickbacks from prescribing certain medications from certain pharmaceutical companies…such things have been known to happen)
You are under extreme mental/emotional stress: you are a married fertile woman… and your doctor is wanting to put you on medication known to cause birth defects…
and you are asking the people here if it is “still ok” for you to do NFP and “avoid relations around your fertile time”?
Are you completely crazy?
Medications are ovewhelmingly tested on MEN… not women. Short and long term side effects of the vast majority of medications *on women * are neither well studied or known.

NO ONE HERE could possibly determine how much your female and unique biochemistry is going to react to your extreme stress combined with your unknown medication (known to cause birth defects and designed to alter your biochemistry)… such that NFP will still work for you.
NO ONE HERE, not even a physician could ever do anything better than throw a useless guess on that one…
Any medication capable of altering your biochemistry and known to cause birth defects is guaranteed to biochemically affect your body in a myraid of different ways… any of which can make your NFP readings completely unreliable.

 

[Calliso]

You are under extreme physiological stress: you have a 5 month old
You are under extreme physiological stress: you may well be laid off in the next 6 months
You are under extreme physiological stress: you are exhibiting physical symptoms from your extremely stressful life that are sufficiently severe that your doctor feels they should be treated with medication (and/or your doctor is simply financing a new vacation condo with kickbacks from prescribing certain medications from certain pharmaceutical companies…such things have been known to happen)
You are under extreme mental/emotional stress: you are a married fertile woman… and your doctor is wanting to put you on medication known to cause birth defects…
and you are asking the people here if it is “still ok” for you to do NFP and “avoid relations around your fertile time”?
Are you completely crazy?
Medications are ovewhelmingly tested on MEN… not women. Short and long term side effects of the vast majority of medications *on women * are neither well studied or known.

NO ONE HERE could possibly determine how much your female and unique biochemistry is going to react to your extreme stress combined with your unknown medication (known to cause birth defects and designed to alter your biochemistry)… such that NFP will still work for you.
NO ONE HERE, not even a physician could ever do anything better than throw a useless guess on that one…
Any medication capable of altering your biochemistry and known to cause birth defects is guaranteed to biochemically affect your body in a myraid of different ways… any of which can make your NFP readings completely unreliable.

You have a good point here the medication could render any form of nfp useless. And yeah your right none of us here are really qualified to give her an answer.

 

[agapewolf]

You are under extreme physiological stress: you have a 5 month old
You are under extreme physiological stress: you may well be laid off in the next 6 months
You are under extreme physiological stress: you are exhibiting physical symptoms from your extremely stressful life that are sufficiently severe that your doctor feels they should be treated with medication (and/or your doctor is simply financing a new vacation condo with kickbacks from prescribing certain medications from certain pharmaceutical companies…such things have been known to happen)
You are under extreme mental/emotional stress: you are a married fertile woman… and your doctor is wanting to put you on medication known to cause birth defects…
and you are asking the people here if it is “still ok” for you to do NFP and “avoid relations around your fertile time”?
Are you completely crazy?
Medications are ovewhelmingly tested on MEN… not women. Short and long term side effects of the vast majority of medications *on women * are neither well studied or known.

NO ONE HERE could possibly determine how much your female and unique biochemistry is going to react to your extreme stress combined with your unknown medication (known to cause birth defects and designed to alter your biochemistry)… such that NFP will still work for you.
NO ONE HERE, not even a physician could ever do anything better than throw a useless guess on that one…
Any medication capable of altering your biochemistry and known to cause birth defects is guaranteed to biochemically affect your body in a myraid of different ways… any of which can make your NFP readings completely unreliable.

It could also make any kind of ABC completely unreliable. In fact, its way more unreliable than it promotes. And it vastly alters body chemistry too. Taking some kind of hormone to make a working system in the body stop working the way its supposed to doesn’t make much sense.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

When even ordinary antibiotics can make BCPs ineffective, it would seem any medication this strong should be approached with the idea that it could have a similar effect.

 

[former_Catholic]

It could also make any kind of ABC completely unreliable. In fact, its way more unreliable than it promotes. And it vastly alters body chemistry too. Taking some kind of hormone to make a working system in the body stop working the way its supposed to doesn’t make much sense.

Of course. The most crazy thing here, however, is that a medication *known to cause birth defects *is apparently being marketed to a young exhausted stressed-out working mother under threat of unemployment (whose body is still recovering from her last pregnancy!) as some sort of chemical guarantee of health rather than a mere *chemical repression of symptoms *. Toxic medications that cause birth defects are known to regulate and mask symptoms, but they are not known to build human health. Health is of vital concern to any mother of a 5 month old!

In a world in which any white coat with a blood pressure cuff is likely to diagnose any exhausted stressed out young mother running on 3 or 5 hours of sleep with a crying baby as “hypertension!” on the basis of one blood pressure reading in his/her office and instantly prescribe blood pressure medication (on basis of lawsuit avoidance, not extended study of the patient), all young overworked exhausted mothers need to be doing serious research and taking reams of data on their own bodies, asking serious pointed questions of their doctors, getting some serious second opinions, and investigating all their alternatives before they sign up to finance their doctors’ vacation condos.

If a toxic medication is her only viable alternative, the couple may well want to consider either total sexual abstinence or sterilization as options. Most prescription medications are toxic to the liver. Future pregnancy after liver damage is extremely hazardous. Pregnancy after any extended use of toxic medications/drugs by husband or wife, or vaccinations of husband or wife, pretty much constitutes medical experimentation. These are all very serious medical considerations.

 

[PaulinVA]

Okay, the OP should get a second opinion before embarking on a therapy that involves a drug that produces birth defects.

Other than that, we are speculating. They can’t use ABC, because it might not work and is against Church teaching. They can’t use barrier methods because they are not 100% effective and go against Church teaching.

That leaves total abstention or using NFP with very conservative rules, if the signs allow it.