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Pug
Guest
I agree. Indeed, I did say practice birth control via the pill. I did not say use the pill in general.
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vera_dicere
Guest
Its starting to boil down to culture a lot too, I think. I’m the second child of three, and my sister and I were both adopted, yet three kids? When I got to university and said I had a brother and a sister, some of the other students were mortified that a couple could have three children!! “Two at teh most, as its replacement level” I beleive someone gasped!
Several of my relatives have four children in their respective families and they are considered “irresponsible”.
Me, as a good Catholic, and one who understands teh mess this low birth rate has caused, when I find myself a good Catholic husband, I’ll be popping out at least 10 kids. (or as many as the good Lord gives us!)
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presidentjlh
Guest
Wow, that is sad that some people are actually aghast at a married couple having more than 2 kids. That’s just an…idiotic way to think! I personally have never run into anyone who thinks that it’s wrong for a married couple to have more than 2 kids.
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TedDC
Guest
Can anyone cite research which supports the theory that our economic future is in danger from low birthrates? I think a lot of the assertions being made in that regard are efforts to find a secular rationale for what is, essentially, a matter of faith rather than economic science.
Given the effects of globalization, which puts a growing number of American workers in direct competition with much lower-paid foreign labor, there are predictions that the U.S. is entering a long, perhaps permanent period of high “structural” unemployment, where there are simply not enough jobs for the available workforce. So a lower birthrate may be part of the solution to maintaining our standard of living rather than succumbing to a “global average wage”.
Given the effects of globalization, which puts a growing number of American workers in direct competition with much lower-paid foreign labor, there are predictions that the U.S. is entering a long, perhaps permanent period of high “structural” unemployment, where there are simply not enough jobs for the available workforce. So a lower birthrate may be part of the solution to maintaining our standard of living rather than succumbing to a “global average wage”.
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
I have had a similar experience. Only some friends I know want to go as far as instituting limits to the amount of kids people can have. They think 4 kids in a family is borderline child abuse since those kids couldn’t possibly be raised properly.
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aball1035
Guest
So would it be right to make birth control illegal for preventing birth only? What have past Catholic laws been about this?
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TedDC
Guest
No, this is child abuse.
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hellopeople
Guest
I wish I didn’t click on that link. Seriously disturbing.
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presidentjlh
Guest
It is a news story from the Washington Post. Very tragic, horrible, and sad, but not something like a shock image of someone dying.
The truth is often hard to swallow.
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Lypher
Guest
Does majority rule matter or Morality? If you landed on an island that allowed gay marriage would you say it was morally acceptable because the majority on the island were gay?
Wondering how valid teaching of the Church trampels on Universal Natural Right? Prioor to 1929 it was not a Universal Natural Right, it was illegal.
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Lypher
Guest
Should we allow drug dealers to make the choice? This should be a pretty black and white choice.
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
The problem here is which morals can we enforce? The 10 commandments would be a reasonable place to start…but oops…there goes freedom of religion. (struck down at the first commandment)
The thing is, the laws of this nation were founded on ideas that are derived from the Bible, but ensure freedom for non-christians. Non-abortifacient birth control does not deprive anyone from life, liberty, property, or the pursuit of happiness. Abortion, rape, murder, and theft do.
It’s the same reason why pre-marital sex, adultery, masturbation, and consuming some drugs (nicotine, caffeine, alcohol) are legal. In this country we are free to subscribe to any morals we wish, so long as we do not infringe on the basic human rights of another…at least, that they way it was meant to be. And hopefully will be again when Roe v Wade is overturned.
The truth is, the highest moral is to serve God and Christ. Should we make that law? It doesn’t work in America. While I agree that a Catholic theocracy might be a more comfortable place to life at times (and probably more successful), it certainly wouldn’t work for the non-catholics. So until we are willing, ready, and able to drive out all the non-catholics in America, we can not pass such laws.
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aball1035
Guest
Pope Pius IX, Quanta Cura (#’s 3-6),Dec. 8, 1864, ex cathedra:
“From which totally false idea of social government they do not fear to foster that erroneous opinion, most fatal in its effects on the Catholic Church and the salvation of souls, called by Our predecessor, Gregory XVI, an insanity, NAMELY, THAT ‘LIBERTY OF CONSCIENCE AND WORSHIP IS EACH MAN’S PERSONAL RIGHT, WHICH OUGHT TO BE LEGALLY PROCLAIMED AND ASSERTED IN EVERY RIGHTLY CONSTITUTED SOCIETY… But while they rashly affirm this, they do not understand and note that they are preaching liberty of perdition… Therefore, BY OUR APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY, WE REPROBATE, PROSCRIBE, AND CONDEMN ALL THE SINGULAR AND EVIL OPINIONS AND DOCTRINES SPECIALLY MENTIONED IN THIS LETTER, AND WILL AND COMMAND THAT THEY BE THOROUGHLY HELD BY ALL THE CHILDREN OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS REPROBATED, PROSCRIBED AND
CONDEMNED.”
It says here that liberty of conscience and worship being each man’s personal right is condemned.
“From which totally false idea of social government they do not fear to foster that erroneous opinion, most fatal in its effects on the Catholic Church and the salvation of souls, called by Our predecessor, Gregory XVI, an insanity, NAMELY, THAT ‘LIBERTY OF CONSCIENCE AND WORSHIP IS EACH MAN’S PERSONAL RIGHT, WHICH OUGHT TO BE LEGALLY PROCLAIMED AND ASSERTED IN EVERY RIGHTLY CONSTITUTED SOCIETY… But while they rashly affirm this, they do not understand and note that they are preaching liberty of perdition… Therefore, BY OUR APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY, WE REPROBATE, PROSCRIBE, AND CONDEMN ALL THE SINGULAR AND EVIL OPINIONS AND DOCTRINES SPECIALLY MENTIONED IN THIS LETTER, AND WILL AND COMMAND THAT THEY BE THOROUGHLY HELD BY ALL THE CHILDREN OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS REPROBATED, PROSCRIBED AND
CONDEMNED.”
It says here that liberty of conscience and worship being each man’s personal right is condemned.
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Jermosh
Guest
Majority rule only has some play into what the Govt does, our system still allows for minority to have some presence.
Universal Natural Rights in a nut shell is anything and everything that you are capable to do. According to John Locke though, a just Govt is one that controls UNRs to a point that it does not overly imped them. The reason for this is that we must also defend these UNRs, a Govt could put in place a system to do such that and it would allow us to prosper since we do not have to constantly defend ourselves.
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Lypher
Guest
I am not sure if the Wests fasination with “Rights” is going to allow us to practice our religion for much longer. As we have allow other Faith groups, i.e. Muslim to migrate and practice they do not allow the same freedoms to us. Once they attain majority they often enact exclusionary laws and or sharia laws the effectively trampled on any remaining UNR’s.
I believe that very soon Europe will get to experience this first hand. They will likely face some very Dark days ahead. To tell you the truth I would rather live under Canon Law then Sharia Law we would have much more freedom.
God Bless You… Please Pray for me…
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JRKH
Guest
They’d freak out over my family.
My maternal grandparents had three children. From those three they got 18 Grand Children. Five each from their daughters and 8 from their son.
All of us were raised well.
Peace
James
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Lypher
Guest
I agree we should enforce them…
Well that depends on if you believe that direct actions that disrupt Gods plan could be classified as deprivation. Prior to the Lambeth conference Condoms were illegal in most of the world. Did that stop all forms of birth control? No, but it did force people to face consequences for their actions which one could argue aided others in the pursuit of happiness. I believe a strong arguement can be made that since those countries that ban contraception have lower HIV rates, Lower STD rates, lower teen pregancies that it would in fact help in LIFE (Less Aids). Most of these countries do not allow divorce either… The Philippines is a great example. If they ever do start allowing contraception it will not be long until they lose their Morals like other countries in the area.
Well I think an arguement has been made be the Holy father that Pre-Marital sex, pornography, Contraception and Divorce are all fruit of the same tree… If you have contraception, i.e. condoms you need abortion when it fails… and it will fail…by the way HPV is still passed for those using condoms…no such things as safe sex. Another point is that every country that has allowed contraception follows with abortion.
Yes.
Who says?
And?
If Europe is forced to accept Sharia Law maybe we will finally wake up to the threat.
Great source for information on the evils of contraception.
onemoresoul.com/
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Lypher
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markomalley
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One simple example is the current crisis in “social security.” Declining fertility rates are resulting in fewer workers paying in for each beneficiary. This, combined with the increase in expected lifespan, are the two reasons why social security is going to exhaust all its so-called reserves by around 2041 (I say “so called” because, those “reserves” are just debt that one part of the government owes another part; therefore, they aren’t really reserves at all).
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