Birth Control

[Imryl]

Okay fine, I’ll use a different word this time I’ve seen a lot of arguments on CAF about how married couples should be able to be celibate, to avoid using ABC, and if NFP won’t be effective. Tell me, what doesn’t seem ironic about a celibate married couple?? I mean seriously-- we’re not all Mary and Joseph!

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this type of thing on this thread, please correct me if I’m wrong but,

Isn’t celibacy the state of not being married. So, not being celibate is being married?
Isn’t being chastity being sexually responsible according to your state in life? ie. If you’re married you can be in a intimate relationship with only your spouse, and if your single, you’re not in any intimate relationship with anyone?
Isn’t continence the state of abstaining or not having sex? So Incontinence is when you are having sex?

Being a celibate married couple isn’t ironic… It’s impossible as far as I know.

 

[HouseArrest]

It’s definitely too late for me-- I’m already married

How is NFP still morally superior to all other forms of contraception? I still fail to see this because with NFP, you are avoiding sex when a woman is fertile-- did God design marriage and sex to be this way?

Okay wierd analogy here, but if I see a dress at Macy’s and I want it, I look at the price tag. If can either pay the price and take it home, or agree it’s too much for me and leave it there. Another alternative is to wait until it goes on sale and maybe buy it then. That would require some sacrifice on my part, but that’s my decision. That would be NFP.

My other alternative is to find away around paying the price. I could steal it. I still get the dress but I do not have to do what was asked from me from Macy’s. That’s ABC.

 

[heart4home]

It’s definitely too late for me-- I’m already married

How is NFP still morally superior to all other forms of contraception? I still fail to see this because with NFP, you are avoiding sex when a woman is fertile-- did God design marriage and sex to be this way?

Are you really reading the replies. This has been covered numerous times. I know I took the time to reply quite a few pages back with a pretty good explanation.

Maybe it would be more helpful if you would look at a reply and show us where we are wrong with what we are saying, and then we could try to explain further instead of just saying the same thing over and over and over.

Sex is a gift given to married couple for the purpose of procreation and unity. If you are unable to for whatever reason not able to accept the gift of a child, then you must go without the gift of sex. It’s pretty straight forward.

What you want is to have the gift of sex without the procreation part. They were not meant to be seperate gifts unless other natural reasoning allowed them to be so. Menopause, already pregnant, or just not able to conceive. In all those instances you are still saying to God, I accept the gift of sex and the result that could accompany that gift if you so choose God. However if you are unable to accept the full gift then you say NO, I will have to go without any of it for now.

Editing this to add in my previous reply to see if it helps you understand more. If not show us where we need to further elaborate.

As has been pointed out sex within marriage has two purposes. Procreative and unitive. When conceiving is naturally not possible it is fine to continue to engage in intercourse for its unitive purpose as long as it is completed in the act that would be procreative if the couple were able to conceive. That is the natural design of our bodies, even when all is perfect, that there will be times and seasons of life that we will not be able to conceive.

However, abstaining during fertile times or altogether is not an unnatural state. It is pefectly natural to have times where you will not engage in the marital act. When you make the choice to space children you are using the self control that God blessed you with to do so, not misusing the gift that God gave you.

When we use ABC we are enjoying the pleasure of sex with none of the risk/blessing (depending on your mind set I guess)

You have to look at what comes along with ABC.Firstly, hormonal b/c can lead to unknown abortion because while the main way the hormones work are to inhibit ovulation, they also alter the lining of the uterus so if the women does ovulate which happens sometimes when a women misses even just one pill or takes it at the wrong time of day etc. the fertilized egg will abort as it will not be able to implant.

Secondly, when it fails altogether it often will lead to an elective choice of abortion because the couple was in no way open to life and expected their b/c to work

Thirdly, when ABC fails outside of marriage it leads to STDs etc.

There is really no real comparison of the unity and commitment of a couple to each other, when they willingly follow the Church’s teachings about the purpose of the marital act, even if they together choose to abstain for a time for whatever reason, to the couple that expects the ABC to prevent all pregnancy so they can just have sex whenever they feel like it.

 

[heart4home]

Okay wierd analogy here, but if I see a dress at Macy’s and I want it, I look at the price tag. If can either pay the price and take it home, or agree it’s too much for me and leave it there. Another alternative is to wait until it goes on sale and maybe buy it then. That would require some sacrifice on my part, but that’s my decision. That would be NFP.

My other alternative is to find away around paying the price. I could steal it. I still get the dress but I do not have to do what was asked from me from Macy’s. That’s ABC.

Or you put on a credit card, and hope you get it paid off (In reconciliation) before you die.

 

[Em_in_FL]

What about all the women and people who’ve posted on CAF about how they used NFP and still got pregnant without intending to? What about women whose cycles are irregular and they are probably fertile most of the time?

NO method of birth control is 100% effective - except for abstinence. It’s not about effectivity.

It’s impossible to actually be fertile most of the time. It is possible to have very confusing signs that appear to look fertile. Like a previous poster mentioned - many of these conditions can be corrected with proper medical attention.

I KNOW enduring with those medical conditions can be terribly difficult and challenging. I know it’s not an easy path to choose morality.

 

[Imryl]

Okay wierd analogy here, but if I see a dress at Macy’s and I want it, I look at the price tag. If can either pay the price and take it home, or agree it’s too much for me and leave it there. Another alternative is to wait until it goes on sale and maybe buy it then. That would require some sacrifice on my part, but that’s my decision. That would be NFP.

My other alternative is to find away around paying the price. I could steal it. I still get the dress but I do not have to do what was asked from me from Macy’s. That’s ABC.

That aint bad ya know

 

[HouseArrest]

It’s definitely too late for me-- I’m already married

How is NFP still morally superior to all other forms of contraception? I still fail to see this because with NFP, you are avoiding sex when a woman is fertile-- did God design marriage and sex to be this way?

People also avoid sex when they have the flu, when they go to work, and when they are tired. It’s permissable to “not” have sex for many reasons. If it weren’t you’d have to be having sex 24/7.

 

[spunjalebi]

Folks, I’m not trying to be obstinate and ignore what has been previously written…but it’s difficult for me to not see some inconsistencies. One that I cannot answer is when a Protestant asks me how can NFP allow more “openness to life,” if you are purposefully avoiding the times where the creation of a life can happen? Is that really being open? I guess that is something I will need to think about and reflect on more.

By the way, I don’t “want the gift” without the procreation part. My other half does And I’ve got PCOS anyway, so I’m not sure that matters.

 

[Gingersnaps4]

Actually, I had a condition that made abnormal CM. It was because of charting and being very observant that I learned the detailed differences, and my doctor was able to help fix it.

I also have PCOS, and it is all the more important to be charting and observing so that the docs can fix it. (which they have).

Creighton model NFP is designed for the health issues and irregularites…

I have sjogren’s syndrome which attacks all moisture producing glands in my body. It mainly attacks my eyes, parotid glands and pancreas but the effects are still system wide especially during flares. I have lupus too and always have a fever. I’m medicated appropriately for the stages of my diseases and there’s nothing more I can do. The Lord does know I wish my problems could be fixed, it can be miserable.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Folks, I’m not trying to be obstinate and ignore what has been previously written…but it’s difficult for me to not see some inconsistencies. One that I cannot answer is when a Protestant asks me how can NFP allow more “openness to life,” if you are purposefully avoiding the times where the creation of a life can happen? Is that really being open? I guess that is something I will need to think about and reflect on more.

By the way, I don’t “want the gift” without the procreation part. My other half does And I’ve got PCOS anyway, so I’m not sure that matters.

You can tell your Protestant friends that it’s not about being “open to life” - like I said, if God can bring life to a Virgin, He can do anything.
It’s about trusting in the design He created and listening to the Church He established - because it’s Sacramentally *GOOD *for us. Protestants may not have a full grasp of what Sacramental means - so this can be challenging to fully explain, I understand.

 

[heart4home]

Folks, I’m not trying to be obstinate and ignore what has been previously written…but it’s difficult for me to not see some inconsistencies. One that I cannot answer is when a Protestant asks me how can NFP allow more “openness to life,” if you are purposefully avoiding the times where the creation of a life can happen? Is that really being open? I guess that is something I will need to think about and reflect on more.

By the way, I don’t “want the gift” without the procreation part. My other half does And I’ve got PCOS anyway, so I’m not sure that matters.

I think that is a very difficult situation, when you are married and not in agreement about what you want.

I think the difference is, not that NFP is more open to life, it’s that whenever you choose to have sex you are being open to life.

If for whatever reason, my dh and I suddenly decide we can not be open to life for very grave reasons and we’re too afraid to even take the chance by utilizing NFP, then we will need to give up the enjoyment of the unity part of sex as well. You can’t have one without the other.

I guess what it comes down to, is that sex is for unity and procreation, either you will accept that or abstain or in the teachings of the Church be in sin.

Don’t take the purpose of sex and disorder it by making it all about pleasure. The two things have to come together unless natural reasons (menopause, sickness etc.)make that impossible

 

[spunjalebi]

Well, it looks like a huge block there between Protestant objections would be the sacramental nature of marriage.

What you’re saying is NFP is really about respecting the design of the body, and working with it? Not about being open to life?

 

[heart4home]

Well, it looks like a huge block there between Protestant objections would be the sacramental nature of marriage.

What you’re saying is NFP is really about respecting the design of the body, and working with it? Not about being open to life?

That sounds like a very good explanation to me. You don’t even need to say sacramental, you can say exactly what you just said. It’s going to be up to God and the Holy Spirit to work in them and let them see what you say is truth.

 

[Imryl]

Where would one get more information about the different kinds of NFP? I have never used it … but, my husband has asked that we attempted to avoid pregnancy for the next two years while he finishes up school.

Never seen anything about it at the parish I’m at.

… I ask because this seems to be medical, btw.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Well, it looks like a huge block there between Protestant objections would be the sacramental nature of marriage.

What you’re saying is NFP is really about respecting the design of the body, and working with it? Not about being open to life?

That sounds like a very good explanation to me. You don’t even need to say sacramental, you can say exactly what you just said. It’s going to be up to God and the Holy Spirit to work in them and let them see what you say is truth.

Yeah, I agree… that’s a pretty good wording…
Respecting it BECAUSE it was designed by God, and it’s a *GOOD *design.

 

[heart4home]

I have sjogren’s syndrome which attacks all moisture producing glands in my body. It mainly attacks my eyes, parotid glands and pancreas but the effects are still system wide especially during flares. I have lupus too and always have a fever. I’m medicated appropriately for the stages of my diseases and there’s nothing more I can do. The Lord does know I wish my problems could be fixed, it can be miserable.

That’s a heavy burden to have, no doubt. I will pray for you.

 

[Rico_S]

But I hate to even put it this way… God and His Church aren’t “bossy”… they don’t just stand up and say “My way or the highway!”…

I don’t think you need to down play this. If one believes that the Church teaches objective truth…there is good reason to stand up and say “this is the truth…any other version is a lie!”

Of course, it will be very difficult to convince someone who disagrees by simply saying…“b/c God says so!”

It’s because His creation is GOOD. Those unitive and procreative aspects are GOOD. There’s nothing we should want more than to follow His design for creation!

Yes, the procreative aspect of the marital union is good. And indeed the unitive aspect of the marital union is good. But that doesn’t explain why both aspects must be present in order for sex to be good and right (beyond your basic assertion that it is b/c God said so).

 

[Em_in_FL]

Where would one get more information about the different kinds of NFP? I have never used it … but, my husband has asked that we attempted to avoid pregnancy for the next two years while he finishes up school.

Never seen anything about it at the parish I’m at.

… I ask because this seems to be medical, btw.

I would contact your Diocese. Usually there is a Family Life office that can put you in touch with some NFP teachers in your area.
There are also many other books/online resources:
ccli.org/
nfpandmore.com/
creightonmodel.com/
nfp.marquette.edu/

 

[heart4home]

Where would one get more information about the different kinds of NFP? I have never used it … but, my husband has asked that we attempted to avoid pregnancy for the next two years while he finishes up school.

Never seen anything about it at the parish I’m at.

… I ask because this seems to be medical, btw.

Here’s a good place to start.

onemoresoul.com/

You could also call your parish office. I’m sure they could get you headed in the right direction.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

It’s definitely too late for me-- I’m already married

How is NFP still morally superior to all other forms of contraception? I still fail to see this because with NFP, you are avoiding sex when a woman is fertile-- did God design marriage and sex to be this way?

Oh well better luck next time I suppose. I guess the most you can do now is try to warn others before it’s too late for them too.

For me it is mostly about obedience. The only thing that I see is that if you were to abandon the teaching on contraception you would have to abandon a great deal of traditional sexual ethics. If sex can be about something other than procreation then there is no reason that premarital sex, mutual masturbation, and all manner of buggery shouldn’t be allowed as long as it’s between consenting partners.