Birth Control?

[Burdensome1]

While I still don’t agree with the church’s view on birth control and sex,

The Church says that these laws are for the purpose of saving souls as Christ charged the Church with doing. When someone does not agree with them, then logically it means they do not believe Christ charged the Catholic Church with saving souls.

Logically, if someone believed the Catholic Church was charged with saving souls, then they would say “If I want my soul saved in the Catholic Church I will follow the laws of that Church”.

Whereas, if someone did not believe the Catholic Church was charged by Christ with the mission to save souls, then none of the laws of the Church would matter to them at all.

It is a symptom of this age’s particular illness that people do not attempt to answer the question “Is the Catholic Church my spiritual authority that I am obliged to follow if I wish to be faithful to Christ?” but instead want to know which aspects of sexual license the Church prohibits.

If a person believes the Church can save their soul, they will do anything including giving up many potential sexual options, to obtain that salvation. This is why the virgin, celibate saints look down on humanity and pray so hard for us. They know we have a hard time telling what’s important.

 

[free_thinker]

The Church says that these laws are for the purpose of saving souls as Christ charged the Church with doing. When someone does not agree with them, then logically it means they do not believe Christ charged the Catholic Church with saving souls.

Logically, if someone believed the Catholic Church was charged with saving souls, then they would say “If I want my soul saved in the Catholic Church I will follow the laws of that Church”.

Whereas, if someone did not believe the Catholic Church was charged by Christ with the mission to save souls, then none of the laws of the Church would matter to them at all.

You are absolutely right. I do not agree with the Catholic Church, therefore the laws of the church do not matter to me. I have an amazing relationship with God, and feel like I do not need to have a belief in any church to have that.

 

[Burdensome1]

Yes, I’ve been reading your other threads.

American and Europe are just chock full of hundreds of millions of people who are very happy to tell you what they don’t need. I don’t need marriage to have a great relationship, I don’t need traditional morality to be a good person, I don’t need Church to be close to God. It’s by far the most common, mainstream, popular opinion in the first world right now.

So, if you simply hold the most common, mainstream, popular ideas that everyone else in your demographic holds…well, I guess that makes you a beautiful and unique snowflake.

 

[minion]

I like Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s talk on Birth Control.

youtube.com/watch?v=wi2k46dB0fM

Easier to accept Church teaching when you understand why it teaches it.

 

[R_C]

You are absolutely right. I do not agree with the Catholic Church, therefore the laws of the church do not matter to me. I have an amazing relationship with God, and feel like I do not need to have a belief in any church to have that.

I wouldn’t put it that way. If I don’t agree with someone or something, that does not make everything he teaches or does wrong. Especially if we talk about the Catholic Church, which has preserved Christianity for centuries and abides by a strict moral code (regardless of how well the individual members follow it). As you find out more about why the Church says what is says about marriage and contraception (and there’s so much to read before we can actually know why the Church teaches what it teaches), you may further challenge your beliefs in favor of contraception. Perhaps you’ll never agree with considering contraception an intrinsic evil, but it will be greatly beneficial to understand why it is such.

 

[free_thinker]

Yes, I’ve been reading your other threads.

American and Europe are just chock full of hundreds of millions of people who are very happy to tell you what they don’t need. I don’t need marriage to have a great relationship, I don’t need traditional morality to be a good person, I don’t need Church to be close to God. It’s by far the most common, mainstream, popular opinion in the first world right now.

So, if you simply hold the most common, mainstream, popular ideas that everyone else in your demographic holds…well, I guess that makes you a beautiful and unique snowflake.

You are right. I personally do not feel like I need to be part of any particular religion to have a sense of spirituality and a relationship with God. That is how I feel. I tried the Catholic church and it didn’t work for me. If it is working for you, then that is great. Everyone has their own spiritual journey and the means of going through that journey is as individual as the person themself. I don’t believe there is a one size fits all approach to it. But what I do believe is that whether or not you agree or disagree with someone, that you respect their decision. I might not agree with the Catholic church, but it doesn’t mean that I don’t respect those that do. If it is helping you have a relationship with God, then it means you have found something that works for you.

Even though you said it out of sarcasm… we ARE all beautiful and unique snowflakes, but we are also all one with God.

 

[R_C]

we ARE all beautiful and unique snowflakes, but we are also all one with God.

You seem to be a very blessed soul, I pray you remain always close to the Lord, though you may have walked away from the Church. After all, all the baptized belong to the one Body of Christ. I also used to be an “ex-Catholic” I used to have a really good and convincing way to explain why I had abandoned the Church. It took one confession and a few minutes before the Blessed Sacrament to change my life forever. Now I cannot conceive life without the Holy Eucharist and without Reconciliation…once you taste such heavenly honey to the extent that it turns your life from darkness to light, you simply cannot turn around That’s my experience, of course, each of us has different lives, and God knows each of us individually and wants us all to be saved. But in your questions, I have found your replies very respectful and spiritually edifying.

 

[Burdensome1]

I pray you remain always close to the Lord, though you may have walked away from the Church

That’s very sweet for meaning absolutely nothing. If you love me…wait, what was it? IF you love me you will…um, darn it, I used to know this. If you love me you will make it all up for yourself. No, that’s not it.

I’ll go over the scripture forum and ask.

 

[R_C]

That’s very sweet for meaning absolutely nothing.

:crying:

 

[Ophelia23]

That’s very sweet for meaning absolutely nothing. If you love me…wait, what was it? IF you love me you will…um, darn it, I used to know this. If you love me you will make it all up for yourself. No, that’s not it.

I’ll go over the scripture forum and ask.

What they said does mean something, though. We are all brothers and sisters in this one journey to the one Lord. Thankfully, we have a God who forgives those who repent. What R_C said to the OP is more encouraging than anything. It would be best not make light of that. There is hope in what R_C stated. We are told that those who worked in the field from dawn until dusk will receive the same pay as those who only worked for one hour. Try not to forget that.

 

[mharren]

Ok I’ve got a question about contraceptives that I’d like to ask while I briefly entertain the idea that I completely agree with the Church and want to follow it. I’m not trolly, I’m really trying to explore something here after reading all these posts.

OK, so I am very apprehensive about the idea of having children, and that means that I probably shouldn’t get married because maybe I’m too afraid of having children to be ‘open’ to children. So, if I chose then to go the rest of my life alone because it seems it would be right to choose loneliness than to choose companionship and marital love if I’m too afraid to have children, then I have a question.

I’ve been abstinent for four years minus a rape (but that counts, I’ve been abstinent for a year). I’ve used some form of hormonal contraceptive since I was 13 to treat dysmenhorrea. I was on medroxyprogesterone (Depo Provera Injection) for almost three years and then went off of it last February. Medroxy destroyed my libido and I had absolutely no interest in sex, men, masturbation, etc. I’m now on an oral form of progesterone. I found the mood swings and the lust and the unexpected orgasms too distressing once my body had resumed it’s natural hormonal cycles.

While the oral progesterone is not as crushing as the Depo Provera was for libido, am I doing something sinful by using a contraceptive for both medical and libido-destroying reasons if I am trying to accept that I can never marry because of my fear of having children? Is it sinful for me to use the contraception even though I am not having sex? Is it sinful for me to use the contraception if its for a valid medical reason (it is)? but is it sinful for me to use the contraception also because of the pleasant side-effect of not having any libido and also feeling less lonely, thus making a life completely alone more achievable and less emotionally painful?

I only started masturbating again (and it’s really rare) to try and heal from assault and so much fornication, to try and ‘re-learn’ and become comfortable again, but that’s pointless if I’m never going to have a husband. I was hoping to heal so that I when I finally found someone I could marry sex with him wouldn’t be traumatizing and I would be able to give back to him instead of focusing on putting up my defense mechanisms and pretending I enjoyed his expression of love. (That might not make sense, but that’s what I was trying to do).

I really would appreciate some feedback on this and advice. I am believing more and more that I will likely be alone for the rest of my life and even though I do harbour a belief in using contraception but would be willing to use to NFP instead if married I’d be using NFP to prevent pregnancy which means I would by lying when I took my vows to get married because even though it would be NFP I would not be ‘open’ to children because of my fear.

If I wasn’t so afraid of pregnancy I would use NFP and be OK with the approach that “we’ll probably get pregnant, but at least it won’t be like we’re constantly trying to get pregnant” and take that attitude that if it happens, then that’s fine and OK, we’re having a child. I think it would be wonderful to be able to provide a family for my husband but I really…I’m too afraid of pregnancy. And I think I’m too broken anyway, I would hate to get married and then withdraw from my husband because of being too broken and have wasted his time and betrayed him by possibly not even be able to even make-love to him at all.

Does this make any sense?

Regards,

• Mharren

 

[Burdensome1]

Mharren -

I do not think an internet forum can be very much help to you. Firstly, you have medical issues far beyond the competence of strangers on the internet. My wife and I have dealt with hormonal issues as part of infertility treatment, and so I am aware of how complex and frustrating these are and I’m also aware of how little patience some physicians have to really find out the true cause of such problems.

So, #1, it sounds like maybe you have to evaluate your choice of physician and hopefully if you are interested in living a consistently Catholic life, you can find a doctor who will at least be respectful of your choice.

Secondly, it sounds like your counseling needs are also far in excess of what you can expect to get on the internet. What you have already endured and the issues you are dealing with as a result appear to be serious and deserve professional attention to get you the best advice. I would start with a Catholic priest, since they are typically good judges of what requires spiritual advice and what would best respond to medical care. They typically have coursework for exactly this sort of problem.

So, #2, if you intend to move forward in a Catholic way, you deserve a qualified guide and that would be a good priest.

Continued…

 

[mharren]

Ok. Sorry. I ‘over-share’ my bad.

 

[Burdensome1]

…continued

What I would do in your case is:

1.Take a deep breath and realize that God loves you and has instructed His Church to help you.

2.Make up your mind to seek help from a Catholic priest.

3.Realize that since you have some serious needs, it make take a try or two to connect with the right person who has the best understanding of your situation, so it may require some patience on your part.

4.Make a few appointments to talk to priests in your neighborhood during their office hours.

5.Very clearly, explain your issues. I’d highlight:

Abuse done to you
Your fear of pregnancy
Your habits concerning masturbation
Your intentions regarding the Church
The fact that you have had multiple issues concerning hormonal medication and replacement

I’d budget about 10 minutes to explain succinctly. Then I’d ask what he would suggest to you.

Hopefully, he will know of, or can put you in touch with instructors in the parish who know of, MD’s who are respectful/supportive of Catholics and the Church. Sounds like you need one of those. He may have recommendations concerning counseling, and most likely will make a recommendation concerning your relationship with the Church.

Good luck, hope everything goes very well for you.

 

[R_C]

Medical treatment is different from taking contraceptives for the “standard” reasons. The Church does not, as far as I know, condemn this.

God knows you, and understands you. He is also outside of time, while you are in time. Thus it is a matter of patience and discernment whether or not you are called to live a married life, a single life, a consecrated life.

However, lust does not solve things, it aggravates them. It breaks a most natural equilibrium, and brings as a consequence feelings of dissatisfaction and loneliness which are not natural. True, we are naturally called to live together, and to seek a companion, but as we become closer to God, and advance in the path of chastity (which is not repression, but equilibrium) we can truly reach the day in which we say: “I do not want anything: God alone suffices.”

Fear and worries are rather natural…especially when it comes to having children, and even to a lifelong commitment as marriage is. My advice to you is Christ’s advice:

Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.

Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Remember also the words of St. Paul:

Be very careful, then, how you live–not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.

I will entrust to the Blessed Virgin my prayers for your full healing and for God to grant you patience and light to discern what to do on a daily basis, every day; that you may cease to live in the past and in the future, and start living in the present: for, behold, God is neither past, nor future…God is.

May He thus bless you in the measure that He loves you, and may you find God’s very own peace.