birth control......

[pira114]

Great.

But that’s not what this is about. She was given BC by her doctor. Right or wrong, good or bad, that’s what she was given.

She says she feels guilty for taking it because it’s initial intent is to prevent pregnancy.

She said she is considering stopping the medicine because of this guilt.

People on this thread have gotten all up in arms about this because it’s BC.

What I’m saying is that is was given to her as a medication, not to prevent pregnancies. She is not commiting any sins. I suggested she stay on the pills until she can find something better, or in the case that she cannot (due to insurance reasons as has been pointed out), then she should stay on them.

I would argue that if she should feel guilty at all, it would be because she stopped a medication at great health risks to herself without first getting alternative care.

If alternative care exists for her, great. If not, she should (my opinion) stay on it. But either way, she should not just stop it because she feels guilty without trying to find alternative care first. After that, it’s a choice she needs to talk to her Priest about because the risk of putting yourself in grave danger needlessly, and leaving children behind, should be cause for alarm.

 

[BeeSweet]

I took ABC for 11 years, in that time I took five different varieties of hormone therapies, from three different doctors. I developed polycystic ovaries three years after starting ABC. In my particular case, the ABC did nothing to prevent the cysts, and little to relieve them. When I complained of the pain to my Dr., an ultrasound was ordered to look at my ovaries, and I was offered to change the therapy I was taking. This was done for me five times before I became tired of multiple Dr. visits. At one time I was prescribed a fairly powerful anti-inflamatory. Not much helped. I came off the hormones in April of 2005, and became pregnant three months later. The pain subsided through the pregnancy, and then started up again four months post-partum. I had one month where the pain was severe, but it seems to have settled into it’s own cycle, and I know when to expect it to increase and subside because I practice NFP. I did not consult my Dr. about practicing NFP, and don’t really care to. May sound stupid, but after 11 years and three different physicians, I’ve heard quite enough of what they have to say on the subject. Especially considering I’m no better or worse off now while off of the hormones than when I was on them.

I’m not advising anyone to do what I’ve done, just telling my story.

The advice I would like to offer is to be careful with your diet, as I’ve been told that sugar will worsen a cyst problem. That includes all forms of sugar, including carbohydrates. I’ve also been advised to look into the website Soul Cysters.
I’m basically playing it by ear, and praying that the damage I did to myself with the long time I took ABC will not haunt my family in years to come. God bless you, I hope the best for you!

 

[Jared123]

I gotta tell ya, I don’t care what it was origionally made for. If it has been studied and works well, then why not? Millions of women have been prescribed BC for the purpose of bringing their hormones back in balance, or counter acting another hormone that is causing cysts. Which, by the way, can cause several severe conditions including shock, septic blood, etc… and these can lead to death. I know this because I attended the funeral of my co-workers wife who ruptured a cyst and tried to “deal with” the pain. She became septic, went into shock, and died next to him in bed.

So forgive me if I seem passionate about this.

But the real point here is that it is not immoral, nor is it in any way a sin, to take medication prescribed for a real medical issue. Regardless of the unfortunate side affect of preventing birth. Regardless of what the origional intent of the medicine was. It’s only a sin if she takes it for the express purpose of preventing life. Period. You all know that, so quit making women feel guilty about it.

If a woman can find a suitable alternative, great. More power to her. **But the question in this post is relating to a woman considering stoping her current medical treatment because she feels guilty! ** She should continue until another viable method can be found. No sin, not immoral, should be no guilt, and definately should be more support here.

So when does taking BC (or hormone replacement) become immoral? How about when the person who started this thread becomes pregnant and loses the baby due to the fact that the “Pill” can cause a chemical abortion.

 

[pira114]

So when does taking BC (or hormone replacement) become immoral? How about when the person who started this thread becomes pregnant and loses the baby due to the fact that the “Pill” can cause a chemical abortion.

It becomes immoral when you take for the express purpose of preventing pregnancy. If you have a problem with this, call the Pope.

She is not being immoral. That’s the only point I’m trying to make. Well, that and you shouldn’t encourage someone to just stop their medical treatment over the internet, with such little knowledge, and without telling them to secure an alternative BEFORE stopping the treatment. Doing that is immoral.

 

[IsMiseSteise]

First, I also have ovarian cysts. I’d also like to agree with the folks who mentioned that it’s doctor laziness that has people on the pill. A number of us who have polycystic ovaries have had the same experience. Doc won’t help unless you want to get pregnant and in the meantime, they give out birth control pills.

There ARE other ways to treat the problem.

If the cysts are the result of polycystic ovary syndrome(PCOS), interestingly enough, diabetes medications have shown a lot of promise in treating the problem. For some women, their cycles have been regulated, depression eased and cysts halted. There is a Doctor in Ohio (Dr. Glueck) who’s done MUCH in the way of research (although his studies are small) and he’s one of the pioneers in the proper treatment of PCOS.

USUALLY, the right doctor to treat this problem isn’t an OB/GYN, but an endocrinologist since the cysts are actually caused by an endocrine problem, not a gynecological one.

I agree with a previous poster who mentioned the Soul Cysters site for more information. That is one of the best places for information about ovarian cysts that I’ve ever found. And, there are many Catholics over there (myself included) who will gladly take the time to help.

I also like the idea of Marilyn Shannon’s book. It’s a GREAT source of information.

 

[goravens]

This is what 99% of all OBGYN’s do. They put everyone and anyone on the pill and don’t take the time to truely find out what is causing the cyst and the effect this will eventually have on your ovaries. The pill also is very bad for your overall health. I would stop taking the pill immediatly and find yourself a true pro-lfie doctor. This might be very difficult if not impossible depending on where you live. My wife is currently seeing Dr. Hilgers (shes due in about 3 1/2 months). He is totally Catholic and inline with the teaching of the Church. If you go to his website listed in an earlier post you can read all about taking the pill and how bad it is for you. I would call them and see if there is a Catholic doctor in your area who will treat you properly. I have personally talked to Dr. Hilgers and he constantly talks about women who are put on the pill for various health reasons for years. Often they end with fertility problems because of cysts or endometrious have scared up their ovaries and now they can’t have children.

Yep, couldn’t agree more! The BC pill doesn’t solve anything and often times it will add a lot more to your body you don’t need. I had to try a couple different practices before finding one that was willing to help with some of my issues without using the pill. My advice would be to do your own research, visit a nfp-only physician (try omsoul.com for names) or Dr. Hilgers with the Creighton Institute. Chances are there is something out there that’s better for you health-wise, and something that will actually treat your problem.

 

[Jared123]

It becomes immoral when you take for the express purpose of preventing pregnancy. If you have a problem with this, call the Pope.

She is not being immoral. That’s the only point I’m trying to make. Well, that and you shouldn’t encourage someone to just stop their medical treatment over the internet, with such little knowledge, and without telling them to secure an alternative BEFORE stopping the treatment. Doing that is immoral.

There is plenty of sources of crediable information on this issue. So I wouldn’t say that I have little knowledge. Go back and read all the real life cases of people who have dealt with this issue on this one thread. The pill in most cases isn’t necessary and will only cause a women more health problems. Your average OBGYN will never tell you this because it is to easy to prescribe the pill that will only releave the symptoms, but won’t cure the problem. As I stated earlier my wife is currently seeing Dr. Hilgers and many women in my home town have seen him in the past. He is probably the leading authority on this issue in the world and would probably tell the person who stated this thread the same thing I have said. Find a doctor who is truely pro-life that will find out the real reasons for reoccuring cysts, and get off the pill, since this is only causing more physical harm to her body.
I don’t think the Pope is o.k. with all the women who are being put on the pill, (I would love to call him, do you have his number )

 

[hasikelee]

Great.

But that’s not what this is about. She was given BC by her doctor. Right or wrong, good or bad, that’s what she was given.

She says she feels guilty for taking it because it’s initial intent is to prevent pregnancy.

She said she is considering stopping the medicine because of this guilt.

People on this thread have gotten all up in arms about this because it’s BC.

What I’m saying is that is was given to her as a medication, not to prevent pregnancies. She is not commiting any sins. I suggested she stay on the pills until she can find something better, or in the case that she cannot (due to insurance reasons as has been pointed out), then she should stay on them.

I would argue that if she should feel guilty at all, it would be because she stopped a medication at great health risks to herself without first getting alternative care.

If alternative care exists for her, great. If not, she should (my opinion) stay on it. But either way, she should not just stop it because she feels guilty without trying to find alternative care first. After that, it’s a choice she needs to talk to her Priest about because the risk of putting yourself in grave danger needlessly, and leaving children behind, should be cause for alarm.

pira,
You are correct in that if she was prescribed the medication to treat an illness, then she is not sinning by using an oral contraceptive.

But considering the extensive medical care and options available out there, this technicality is rapidly changing.

1. as has been beat into the ground on this poor thread, ABC is a poor choice to real medical care and does little to treat an illness. Is there some immorality or sin in causing damage to one’s body? Is there not some sin perhaps on the doctor’s part for failing to refer her to a specialist who can help?
2. Especially for a mother engaging in frequent or uncharted sexual intercourse, ABC does cause early-term abortions. Is abortion not specifically condemned as an inherent evil?

I just don’t see why you want to be so hard on the OP and the other posters. The OP is questioning, and if she continues to do so, she may actually save her life and maybe even her unborn childrens’ lives.

(big summary) 2 things the Church has to say about the use of birth control is:

1. it is immoral to use to frustrate the unity and procreative aspects of the marital embrace
2. it is okay to use ABC as a form of medication for an illness.

Maturity does come in not blindly following those who appear to be authorities. Many doctors specialize in one, maybe two areas and some doctors generalize for family or hospital care. It may very well be that her well-meaning doctor has prescribed birth control, without having any clue what is really even wrong or what is the best treatment.

Kudos to the OP for following her gut instinct and questioning things to better her life, spiritually and physically.

 

[pira114]

pira,
You are correct in that if she was prescribed the medication to treat an illness, then she is not sinning by using an oral contraceptive.

I just don’t see why you want to be so hard on the OP and the other posters. The OP is questioning, and if she continues to do so, she may actually save her life and maybe even her unborn childrens’ lives.

:

How the heck am I the one being hard on the OP? Do you people read the whole threads? Or do you just key in on one thing you don’t like and go crazy?

I’m all for her finding alternative treatment. I’m VERY SUPPORTIVE of the OP. More so than most of you. I’m one of the very few who are telling her not to feel guilty. I think it’s great that she may not want to continue with this treatment if she can find alternatives.

BUT, she was asking about feeling guilty. I, and you also now, have said that she is not commiting a sin. She is doing nothing wrong. If she is practicing NFP ( I can only assume this since she is worried about preventing a pregnancy and is against BC), then she would never have to worry about killing an unborn child right?

How can you kill a child in the womb if there is none?

But that’s beside the point. I’m only, and I repeat, ONLY saying that she need not feel guilty. I would suggest she is better than most in wanting to find alternatives, but should remain on her medication until she finds one. That’s all I’ve said the whole time. What the heck is wrong with that?

I never said that there were no alternatives. I never said that she shouldn’t go find them. Never said the BC pills are the best solution.

So, how have I been “so hard” on the OP? How have I suggested anything other than something that would fall well within Church teaching?
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[hasikelee]

How the heck am I the one being hard on the OP? Do you people read the whole threads? Or do you just key in on one thing you don’t like and go crazy?

I’m all for her finding alternative treatment. I’m VERY SUPPORTIVE of the OP. More so than most of you. I’m one of the very few who are telling her not to feel guilty. I think it’s great that she may not want to continue with this treatment if she can find alternatives.

BUT, she was asking about feeling guilty. I, and you also now, have said that she is not commiting a sin. She is doing nothing wrong. If she is practicing NFP ( I can only assume this since she is worried about preventing a pregnancy and is against BC), then she would never have to worry about killing an unborn child right?

How can you kill a child in the womb if there is none?

But that’s beside the point. I’m only, and I repeat, ONLY saying that she need not feel guilty. I would suggest she is better than most in wanting to find alternatives, but should remain on her medication until she finds one. That’s all I’ve said the whole time. What the heck is wrong with that?

I never said that there were no alternatives. I never said that she shouldn’t go find them. Never said the BC pills are the best solution.

So, how have I been “so hard” on the OP? How have I suggested anything other than something that would fall well within Church teaching?
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I hope my point has been taken regarding our post back and forth!

It isn’t about her finding “alternative treatment” it is about her finding real health care. Birth control is the alternative treatment and if she feels guilty that shouldn’t be shoved down or dismissed.

Now, perhaps she is straying into a scrupulous state of mind and that is something to look out for in every person as it is a psychopathology related to OCD. But by her post, it is more apparent that her mind has looked at things logically and followed the actions to the consequences. She is feeling the disconnect that comes from doing something not altogether healthy for her.

As for advising her to stop the taking oral contraceptives, that may be wrong or not depending on what the particular posters meant. Was the intent to warn the OP to eventually stop and to secure another treatment? Or to stop taking a pill right there, right that moment?

Because oral contraceptives are a high-dose hormonal replacement therapy, stopping can effect reproductive illnesses. Always consulting a specialist and maintaining frequent visits with a primary care physician is a good thing when changing HRTs.

 

[pira114]

Well, that last post made the most sense from you so far, and I should add that I totally agree with it.

The problem is that many, if not most, of the posts encouraging another choice for treatment don’t specify that she should not feel guilty about this as she is doing nothing wrong. And many of them don’t even go as far as to suggest that she should stay on the medication at least as long as it takes to explore her options.

In the origional post, she stated that she felt guilty because these pills were meant to prevent pregnancy. She said she felt guilty, even though she knew she wasn’t taking them for BC, because she was “well aware” of Church teaching. According to Church teaching, she is doing nothing wrong. So why the guilt? I’m worried that she and many like her feel guilty mainly because of the negative statements made by others, not because they are doing anything wrong.

That’s why I’ve been so adament (sp?) about this thread.

Although, I’m starting to think she’s not even listening anymore!

 

[Peterdiago]

Oh, she’ll be listening - she’s probably just spent the last day or so busy getting a 2nd doctor’s opinon

 

[Rainbow77]

I must jump in this interesting and timely conversation.

I am 40 years old, married, and never been able to have children. In my life, I have been to nice OB/GYNs but none of them Catholic or at least 100% ProLife (they all dole out BC pills to women not wishing to get pregnant).

Then there is me with my wild and unusual hormone problem. I don’t have regular monthly menstrual cycles. Haven’t since I was 13 years old. And up until I got married 14 years ago, I didn’t really care and was kinda glad not to have to buy all those sanitary items at the store. And during most of my adult life I was not a practicing Catholic either.

Then around 1998 I knew something was missing in my life, something was off. So I went to talk to a psychologist. To talk about life issues. And during the first year of counseling I realized I needed to go back to Church, but then a really complicated issue crept into my life. I was married outside the church, couldn’t go to communion, and I was on BC pills for hormone treat.

My moods go all over the place on this. I feel guilty having relations with my husband when I know I cannot have kids with or without the BC pills. I quit them 7 years ago to get married in the Church, but have not gotten pregnant since. My gut instinct tells me there is something wrong with the fallopian tubes. Blood tests 4 years ago said that all the hormones were okay, so I think it’s an organ function problem. And I am okay with that, somedays. Somedays I am not. It’s affected my marriage in many ways. When I was on the BC pills I had monthly cycles and I think that my doctor now is urging me to take them so that my uterus goes through the normal monthly cycle. He says that my risk for uterine cancer is really high and the older I get the higher it goes. My paternal grandmother died in the 40s (when my dad was only 9 yr old) from cancer of one of the female reproductive organs, so I think my cancer risk is even higher than anyone realizes. That’s my feeling, though I am no doctor.

Anyways, most here are saying taking BC pills is bad for health reasons, and not necessarily the only help for ovarian cysts. Does anyone know about ammenorhea (lack of menstrual cycles) and BC pills?

 

[astegallrnc]

Does anyone know about ammenorhea (lack of menstrual cycles) and BC pills?

There are alternative treatments for amenorrhea. Talk to your doctor. I would also encourage you to contact the Pope Paul VI Institute.

Autumn

 

[aaronlgates]

I’m all for her finding alternative treatment. I’m VERY SUPPORTIVE of the OP. More so than most of you. I’m one of the very few who are telling her not to feel guilty. I think it’s great that she may not want to continue with this treatment if she can find alternatives.

I’ve read some really great information in this thread. As a doctor of pharmacy, you guys make me proud… this is the issue that is taking me into the Catholic Church.

Regarding your support of the OP, Pira… because it acts as an abortifacient hormonal ‘contraception’ is not a viable treatment if there is a possibility of intercourse during this treatment. Be careful about saying what itching ears want to hear in the interest of expressing what you think may be love for your neighbor. This sort of ‘support’ could be mortally wounding that person’s soul. Jesus had a few things to say about this… false prophets were those who gave the comforting words instead of the harsh realities… and millstones around the neck of those who lead others astray is not a pleasant thought.

Sometimes being ‘mean’ is the most loving thing you can do… saying the truth in love. I don’t really think that the OP is a bad woman… I believe that she’s doing the right thing to find out exactly why the Church stands against hormonal birth control. Just because someone with a doctorate states something or prescribes something, however, does not give you a ‘get out of jail free card’ when you follow the physician’s advice against the clear teachings of the Church.

 

[Aleii]

I’ve read some really great information in this thread. As a doctor of pharmacy, you guys make me proud… this is the issue that is taking me into the Catholic Church.

Regarding your support of the OP, Pira… because it acts as an abortifacient hormonal ‘contraception’ is not a viable treatment if there is a possibility of intercourse during this treatment. Be careful about saying what itching ears want to hear in the interest of expressing what you think may be love for your neighbor. This sort of ‘support’ could be mortally wounding that person’s soul. Jesus had a few things to say about this… false prophets were those who gave the comforting words instead of the harsh realities… and millstones around the neck of those who lead others astray is not a pleasant thought.

Sometimes being ‘mean’ is the most loving thing you can do… saying the truth in love. I don’t really think that the OP is a bad woman… I believe that she’s doing the right thing to find out exactly why the Church stands against hormonal birth control. Just because someone with a doctorate states something or prescribes something, however, does not give you a ‘get out of jail free card’ when you follow the physician’s advice against the clear teachings of the Church.

This type of post bothers me, especially coming from a fellow medical professional, when the topic relates to a patient’s health. Please research this topic more before talking that way about the OP and Pira. Being in line with Catholic teaching, you CAN take BCP while still having intercourse if its purpose is for medical treatment.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=15756&highlight=birth+control+pill

 

[SilenceISgolden]

Just wanted to say to the OP (who I hope is still out there reading) that I have issues with ovarian cysts. Friday I was able to travel to see an NFP only doctor here in my state. It was great! I felt listened to for the FIRST time regarding my female problems! But the even better news was that he does believe that he can help me…WITHOUT the use of the pill which both my OB & GP wanted to put me on and shove me out the door! I’ve got some testing to do but hopefully in the next couple weeks we’ll have a plan in place.

So to all of you out there, there is hope beyond the pill. Keep searching and keep praying

Also a side note…I was recommended to this dr thru my NFP teacher. So for those of you unable to find a dr on onemoresoul, maybe try your NFP teacher/coach!

 

[aaronlgates]

This type of post bothers me, especially coming from a fellow medical professional, when the topic relates to a patient’s health. Please research this topic more before talking that way about the OP and Pira. Being in line with Catholic teaching, you CAN take BCP while still having intercourse if its purpose is for medical treatment.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=15756&highlight=birth+control+pill

The Church CANNOT and WILL NOT allow abortifacient drugs to be used in the case of managing ovarian cysts if there is the possibility of intercourse during tx. Read the quote again:

“the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those 
therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a
foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there
from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for
any motive whatsoever” (HV 15).

The “forseeable impediment to procreation” does not include the sacrificing of newly created and genetically whole human beings for therapeutic means. This quote is more appropriately applied to hysterectomies, etc.

I am surprised at the impact of the culture of death upon the minds of this generation. Perhaps you don’t quite understand or are blinded to the fact that these are individual human beings with their traits already determined. Blond hair, brown eyes, 5’10", good athletic skills, potential for the priesthood… all of these things are genetically determined in these lives created in the image of God… these lives you are so determined to sacrifice to ensure a possibility of a bit more comfort for the woman… and this tx is even questionable in its efficacy for this indication.

We are indeed in the end times and the innocent are being killed by the millions. May God have mercy on us.

 

[aaronlgates]

This type of post bothers me, especially coming from a fellow medical professional, when the topic relates to a patient’s health…you CAN take BCP while still having intercourse if its purpose is for medical treatment.

So you have the case of a woman who deals with irregular/infrequent menses, and the pro-death physician orders hormonal ‘contraception’ to regulate the cycle… knowing full well that the woman is having intercourse during this period of time… you have the case of a woman who is taking oral contraceptives because ‘the doctor ordered it’ for whatever reason they may deem medically legitimate… cramping, acne, mood swings… you are told by the physician that you are not psychologically ready for the child in your womb and the child is pulled out of your body in pieces… is this legitmate medical advice? Sure! Legitimate in this culture of death, but NOT legitimate in the eyes of God. What level of discomfort rationalizes murder of the unborn? What degree of acne makes killing babies OK? What level of cramping pain calls for the killing of humans created in the image of God?

Since when has the physician ever taken the place of God? Since when is their judgement NOT subject to scrutiny? Is the ‘doctors note’ a ‘get out of jail free card’ regardless of their rationale for treatment?

I am here to tell you that neither the physician NOR the patient are immune to the judgement that comes from the murder of human life. And neither are YOU immune from the judgement of CONTRIBUTING to the murder of the innocent through your words of ‘support’ of the patient who CHOOSES to listen to the advice of an abortionist.

 

[Aleii]

I provided a link with a quote from an apologist which says that abstinence is not required when taking the pill for medical reasons.

Please provide a specific quote which says that taking the pill for ovarian cysts does not qualify. This OP specifically states she was in a severe amount of pain. This isn’t simply about acne. The link I posted referred to PCOS and specifically states abstinence is not required. Endometriosis is another common reason for BCP.

The intention is not to contracept, the intention is medical treatment of a woman in severe pain. This is the moral difference. Look into the term double-effect before you continue to relate this to culture of death.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=30815&highlight=double+effect

“if using a particular drug, for legitimate purposes, heightens that ratio somewhat, the Church has not, as yet, considered that proportionate reason to require spouses to either abstain from marital relations or to forego necessary treatments for diseases suffered by one of the spouses.”

The thing that bothers me so much is that you stated your credentials first before inferring that this person should not follow the advice of her doctor, while you know almost nothing about this particular patient. It would have been entirely different to give your thoughts without relating your credentials first.