Bisexuality / Homosexuality and Radical Feminism - Connection ?

[Stephen168]

Yes, I agree that in many jobs today there is equal pay. But why do you suppose that is? People such as feminists fought for it, just as unions fought for safe working conditions and worker equality. But we have not achieved total equality yet and the fight is not over. Your other statement suggests that there is a correlation between successful women who have careers and unsuccessful women as mothers. The research does not support your statement. Even if it did, does that mean women should not strive to be successful, in your view? Are you suggesting that women’s professional success is ruining the family? And what is wrong with the other woman you mention who had “only” one child in her late 30’s? Plenty of women have one child later in life even if they don’t have careers.

I don’t think you’ve talked to the mother of your children , yet

 

[mark_a]

Of course, women who are not subservient/recessive, and believe they should have equal rights are to blame for men not growing up like real men! I’ve also read a report which suggests that over dominating fathers lead to homosexuality. So what? This kind of claim to me is almost laughable, it’s so sexist.

As to the OP - where do you want me to start? Male dominance throughout history is a fact. Look at the percentage of men and women in the top jobs then tell me that male dominance doesn’t exist.

Subjectivity of women also exists. Lesbianism is very rarely outlawed or spoken out against. Why? Because men like to watch it. As for gay men however…

Exactly why can’t we complain about rape? The majority of rapes are committed by a close family member/friend of the victim. There is evidence that police do not take accusations seriously. Guess what percentage of rapes lead to a conviction? 2.6% in the UK!

Reproductive rights is a tricky one. It is easy for someone to say that female fertility is the one thing that men cannot directly control, therefore they enforce rules that enable them to control it. But those aren’t my words.

Pay inequality - equal pay for equal work, thank you very much. Women in the UK and the USA still earn less for the same work on average, with the pay gap increasing as you go up the ranks.

Sexual discrimination - too broad really for me to respond to, please elaborate.

And yes, hopefully women are not being taught that they have the right to be treated equally, hopefully they are not being taught that rape is bad, hopefully they’re not being taught they should have equal pay for equal work, because all of that is part of RADICAL FEMINISM and therefore is evil, and is not at all part of the HUMAN RIGHTS without any radicalism involved!

Your post very much looks like an attack on women, I would tread very carefully if I were you.

Feminism is about fairness. Radical feminism is about women imitating the sexual behavior of the men they hate.

 

[edwest2]

I’m a man and am all for women’s rights in every aspect. Without those “radical” feminists, not as many women would have higher aspirations in the workforce today, and society would continue to chug along in its complacency. It takes dynamic leaders to shake up the status quo at times, and this applies to civil rights as much as women’s rights. Of course, those in power are alarmed, because they may not even realize they are being oppressive. Change is always frightening (on the part of both victimizers and victims), even change for the better.

Yes, the radical feminists created a victim class – All Women. And an enemies’ class – All Men. In the late 1970s, I heard the following: “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!”

But were the radical feminists solution oriented? No. That’s why you now have Women’s Studies at colleges, and women’s literature. Instead of trying to solve problems that existed between women and men, the radicals pushed the standard Marxist class warfare pattern. Guys were left out of the loop as if even a species relationship no longer existed between men and women.

For a while in the late 1970s, I thought that dates would include a lawyer for the woman. The man would have to agree to all terms and conditions or the date was off.

They were mean and confrontational, and not an appropriate intellectual body for dealing with the issues.

Peace,
Ed

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I’m also a psychologist and psychology professor, and I can assure you that the so-called “experts” you mention are in the distinct minority on this subject.

Not to get off topic here but what do you think of Sexual Identity Therapy and what would you recommend a homosexual/bisexual do if they do not want to embrace this aspect of their sexuality? For example, a practicing Catholic who agrees with the Church’s teaching on homosexuality while possessing a homosexual orientation?

On the subject of the thread, I think there is an important distinction between feminism as advocating for the equality of women and the radical feminism that the OP mentioned. I’m not sure which is the most common but the definite feeling I get from some literature is that men have waged a war on women since the beginning of our species and that our society is still an oppressive, evil patriarchy.

Here is an interesting article on pay inequality: blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/calculating-pay-inequity-919/

 

[Warrenton]

I’m around 50 years old. I grew up during the sexual revolution of the early 60s, the legalization of every type of abortion on demand in the 70s, and radical feminism during the 80s.

The radical feminism that surrounded us approached man hating.

Hi Barb!

I viewed all these things as mostly rhetoric. Certainly, general behaviors change across time, but I think the Old Testament vocabularly of “freedom” and “slavery” describe the abiding conditions of mankind.

What really changes? If the radical feminists had been successful, we would not have so many abortions.

If the homosexual activists had been successful, we had no need of so many contraceptions.

Q.E.D., the logicians say!

 

[Barbkw]

Radical feminism is about women imitating the sexual behavior of the men they hate.

So true!

 

[Holly3278]

I suffer from some same sex attractions and some would call me Bisexual since I have attractions to both sexes but I am by no means a radical feminist. I fight against my objectively disordered sexual attractions and by no means would I ever be considered a gay rights activist either. I just simply acknowledge the fact that I occasionally do suffer from objectively disordered temptations geared toward other women. And believe me, this is not something I am proud of either. I am actually ashamed of it.

 

[bhall0689]

Feminism is about fairness. Radical feminism is about women imitating the sexual behavior of the men they hate.

I’m confused by this. What do you mean “sexual behavior?” I’ve heard Catholics complain of “radical” feminists imitating men’s behavior in the family and workplace, but how do women attempt to imitate men’s SEXUAL behavior?

Please tell me this isn’t some Freudian reference . . .

I just simply acknowledge the fact that I occasionally do suffer from objectively disordered temptations geared toward other women. And believe me, this is not something I am proud of either. I am actually ashamed of it.

And I hope this is appropriate for me to say, but I really wish you weren’t ashamed. You are exactly how you were meant to be. The design in existence is too inherent and beautiful to ignore.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I suffer from some same sex attractions and some would call me Bisexual since I have attractions to both sexes but I am by no means a radical feminist. I fight against my objectively disordered sexual attractions and by no means would I ever be considered a gay rights activist either. I just simply acknowledge the fact that I occasionally do suffer from objectively disordered temptations geared toward other women. And believe me, this is not something I am proud of either. I am actually ashamed of it.

I understand how you feel. I suffer from same-sex attractions and really, really wish I did not. I do not indulge those attractions. Sometimes, society is not helpful in that respect.

 

[elvisman]

I’m also a psychologist and psychology professor, and I can assure you that the so-called “experts” you mention are in the distinct minority on this subject. Most gay people cannot be “brought back” to heterosexuality. Those who may claim to become “heterosexual” were, and probably still are, bisexual.

**You can only assure me that this is *your *educated opinion. It doesn’t surprise me in the least to hear that the Christian approach to homosexual therapy is in the minority - especially in this culture where we are being force-fed generous helpings of sexual deviance in the media. Tolerance is one thing - celebrating the homosexual lifestyle is quite another.

Both Joe Dallas and Dr. Nicolosi specialize in this area and have counseled many people based on the theory that many homosexual cases are, in fact, the result of conditioning in the home environment.
As I stated from the beginning - I am merely parrotting the research of these two Christian men.

Read for yourself:
http://www.thesexualresolution.com/
http://www.josephnicolosi.com/

 

[elvisman]

Where can I read these studies? Could you send me a PM if that would be appropriate. Thanks Elvis.

I am curious because the church does not openly endorse reparative therapy and only urges homosexuals of either gender to live chaste lives.

Hey, Johnny -
You can find out about both Dallas and Nicolosi at their respective websites:
http://www.thesexualresolution.com/
http://www.josephnicolosi.com/

As for the Church - I don’t believe think that it is against these types of therapies. The Church DOES urge chastitiy for single people of every walk of life because to have an active sex life outside the boundaries of marriage is gravely sinful.

 

[John21652]

I’m a man and am all for women’s rights in every aspect. Without those “radical” feminists, not as many women would have higher aspirations in the workforce today, and society would continue to chug along in its complacency. It takes dynamic leaders to shake up the status quo at times, and this applies to civil rights as much as women’s rights. Of course, those in power are alarmed, because they may not even realize they are being oppressive. Change is always frightening (on the part of both victimizers and victims), even change for the better.

“We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.” – Robin Morgan former actress and founding member of New York radical Women

“Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage.” – Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

“Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.” --* Andrea Dworkin*

“Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice.” – Ti-Grace Atkinson

“If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.” –Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.

“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” – Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.)

“The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist” National NOW Times, January, 1988.

“Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole…patriarch!” Gloria Steinem, radical feminist leader, editor of MS magazine.

“Let’s forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement, solace, and inspiration from real women… Two thousand years of patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women toward the feminist ‘salvation’ of this world.” Annie Laurie Gaylor, “Feminist Salvation,” The Humanist, p. 37, July/August 1988.

Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism.” -* Catharine A. MacKinnon*

“I propose that the phenomenon of love is the psychological pivot in the persecution of women.” – Ti-Grace Atkinson in ‘Radical Feminism and Love’

“Women’s liberation, if it abolishes the patriarchal family, will abolish a necessary substructure of the authoritarian state, and once that withers away Marx will have come true willy-nilly, so let’s get on with it.” Germaine Greer

 

[Gift_from_God]

Women have always wanted to usurp men’s rule since the fall.
Genesis 3:18 "To the woman he said. 'I will greatly increase your pain in childbearing; in pain you shal bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.’"
And yet we debate the evils of so-called “feminism”
About as feminine as gays are gay. ( in the traditional sense of the word, of course)

Women are not trying to usurp men. The basic foundation for feminism was voting rights and driving rights. With that came occupational rights and equal salary rights. In modern times, they do get out of hand from time to time, but issues such as genital mutilation are very important subjects for feminists

 

[Gift_from_God]

Go to the web site of the National Organization for Women.

Betty Friedan (author of The Feminine Mystique, 1963) called the family “a comfortable concentration camp.”

Gloria Steinem, who helped found Ms. Magazine (yes, that’s where that word comes from), said, “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”

Look up the Equal Rights Amendment, 1978.

The destruction of the traditional family was the goal.

No single organization or person represents the general ideology of feminism.

 

[Peepers]

Maybe i am naive. What does feminism, if by that one means women’s civil and human rights in society, have to do with bisexuality or homosexuality?

My opinion is that Nicolosi and Dallas too marginal in their views to be considered experts. I would consider and expert to be someone who is well rounded and extensive in their knowledge and approach to any discipline. Just as gay radicals have an agenda, so do Nicolosi and Dallas. Therefore, their opinions are suspect.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Visit Amazon and read “The Flip Side of Feminism” by Suzanne Venker and Phyllis Schlafly.

Schlafly also wrote “Feminist Fantasies”.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Hey, Johnny -
**You can find out about both **Dallas and Nicolosi at their respective websites:
http://www.thesexualresolution.com/
http://www.josephnicolosi.com/

As for the Church - I don’t believe think that it is against these types of therapies. The Church DOES urge chastitiy for single people of every walk of life because to have an active sex life outside the boundaries of marriage is gravely sinful.

Thanks Elvis. I’ll take a look this afternoon when I get home from clinicals. I am sure their perspective will allow me to look at this issue from a broader perspective. 5 am is too early to be up.

 

[elvisman]

Maybe i am naive. What does feminism, if by that one means women’s civil and human rights in society, have to do with bisexuality or homosexuality?

My opinion is that Nicolosi and Dallas too marginal in their views to be considered experts. I would consider and expert to be someone who is well rounded and extensive in their knowledge and approach to any discipline. Just as gay radicals have an agenda, so do Nicolosi and Dallas. Therefore, their opinions are suspect.

That’s your opinion.**
What do you do with all of the people they have counseled - and brought back to heterosexuality (not bisexuality) - based on the idea that many cases of homosexuality is cause by conditioning in the home during the formative years?**

You can have your opinions about why you don’t like them - but they are producing real results.

 

[elvisman]

Women are not trying to usurp men. The basic foundation for feminism was voting rights and driving rights. With that came occupational rights and equal salary rights. In modern times, they do get out of hand from time to time, but issues such as genital mutilation are very important subjects for feminists

This is such a blanket statement.
**You cannot possibly speak for all women. Some ARE trying to usurp the role of men in society - and men in general.

**In Humanae Vitae, Paul VI prophesied many of the things that have happened since the Sixties due to radical feminism - and they’ve come true. Many liberal Catholics at the time completely ignored what he had to say and some even left the Church because of it. **

He spoke about the radical agenda that was taking place due to artificial contraception and how this decay of the family would decay our culture - and it has. Artificial contraception, abortion, euthanasia, rampant homosexuality, the “sexual revolution”, etc. can all be traced back to radical feminism.

Equal pay for equal work,rallying against abuse - these things are NOT the same as the radical feminist agenda. You can either look at history honestly and the sociological implications of radical feminism - or choose to hide your head in the sand . . .

 

[meltzerboy]

Not to get off topic here but what do you think of Sexual Identity Therapy and what would you recommend a homosexual/bisexual do if they do not want to embrace this aspect of their sexuality? For example, a practicing Catholic who agrees with the Church’s teaching on homosexuality while possessing a homosexual orientation?

On the subject of the thread, I think there is an important distinction between feminism as advocating for the equality of women and the radical feminism that the OP mentioned. I’m not sure which is the most common but the definite feeling I get from some literature is that men have waged a war on women since the beginning of our species and that our society is still an oppressive, evil patriarchy.

Here is an interesting article on pay inequality: blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/calculating-pay-inequity-919/

The prevailing understanding among most psychologists is that sexual orientation is very difficult, if not impossible, to change. Therefore I believe therapists should try to bring to gay patients a sense of inner peace and acceptance of their being homosexual. The orientation itself is not considered sinful by the Catholic Church, only the behavior. I don’t believe therapists have the right to impose their own morality on that of their patients, so if the patient believes that homosexual behavior is sinful according to their Catholic faith, the therapist should respect that and provide supportive therapy to enable the patient to refrain from engaging in that behavior. In the reverse situation, this kind of neutrality may be difficult for a religious Catholic therapist, who believes homosexual behavior is sinful and, at the same time, is treating an active homosexual. Nonetheless, the same rule applies, that is, therapists, in the role of healer, have no right to impose their own religious views on their patients. Exceptions to this would include suicidal or homicidal patients, as well as (other) criminal behaviors.