Bishop: ‘I would hate if people voted No for bigoted, nasty, bullying reasons’

[SonOfMan]

What do you mean?

Raymond Arroyo just asked Vatican official Vicenzo Paglia, if he agreed with Cardinal Pell that the Synod will massivley reaffirm current Church teaching. He said he believes the Pope will be more accomodating in realizing the current reality of family life and rearrange Church thinking on what it means to be a family in order to be contemporary (i.e. supporting and encouraging same sex marriage families). So in other words he disagreed with Cardinal Pell that this Synod will massively uphold current Church thinking. The writing is certainly on the wall.

He said they wouldn’t be changing doctrine, but rather they will be enlarging it to accomodate all kinds of family situations. That we are at a time when we are receiving deeper meaning of the Gospel. As far as Im concerned, this is just a word game. “Enlarging doctrine” “deeper meaning of doctrine/Gospel” etc…Let’s face it: Its change. And it wouldn’t be the first time.

Dont take my word for it, watch today’s episode of the World Over.

 

[TMC]

Raymond Arroyo just asked Vatican official Vicenzo Paglia, if he agreed with Cardinal Pell that the Synod will massivley reaffirm current Church teaching. He said he believes the Pope will be more accomodating in realizing the current reality of family life and rearrange Church thinking on what it means to be a family in order to be contemporary (i.e. supporting and encouraging same sex marriage families). So in other words he disagreed with Cardinal Pell that this Synod will massively uphold current Church thinking. The writing is certainly on the wall.

He said they wouldn’t be changing doctrine, but rather they will be enlarging it to accomodate all kinds of family situations. That we are at a time when we are receiving deeper meaning of the Gospel. As far as Im concerned, this is just a word game. “Enlarging doctrine” “deeper meaning of doctrine/Gospel” etc…Let’s face it: Its change. And it wouldn’t be the first time.

Dont take my word for it, watch today’s episode of the World Over.

The Spirit has not stopped speaking. We are often slow to listen.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Raymond Arroyo just asked Vatican official Vicenzo Paglia, if he agreed with Cardinal Pell that the Synod will massivley reaffirm current Church teaching. He said he believes the Pope will be more accomodating in realizing the current reality of family life and rearrange Church thinking on what it means to be a family in order to be contemporary (i.e. supporting and encouraging same sex marriage families). So in other words he disagreed with Cardinal Pell that this Synod will massively uphold current Church thinking. The writing is certainly on the wall.

He said they wouldn’t be changing doctrine, but rather they will be enlarging it to accomodate all kinds of family situations. That we are at a time when we are receiving deeper meaning of the Gospel. As far as Im concerned, this is just a word game. “Enlarging doctrine” “deeper meaning of doctrine/Gospel” etc…Let’s face it: Its change. And it wouldn’t be the first time.

Dont take my word for it, watch today’s episode of the World Over.

We’ll have to see what if anything the Catholic Synod actually does in this regard. But I do think the Vatican official made a valid point about deeper meanings. I believe as TMC said, that the Spirit has not stopped speaking. It’s one thing that drew me to some of the mainline Protestant denominations. They’ve been open to new understandings along their Christian walks and journeys.

 

[JimG]

Presumably, those who vote not on same sex marriage do so because they think it would be bad for individuals, bad for children, bad for society, and a debasement of marriage. In fact, such reasons would be pretty much in line with Catholic moral teaching and indeed all Christian moral teaching throughout the centuries.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Presumably, those who vote not on same sex marriage do so because they think it would be bad for individuals, bad for children, bad for society, and a debasement of marriage. In fact, such reasons would be pretty much in line with Catholic moral teaching and indeed all Christian moral teaching throughout the centuries.

I have no idea what will come out of the Catholic synod. But that’s the point with some of the mainline Protestant Christians. They are not merely tied to nor limiting themselves to past centuries and closed off to further and new understandings when they come to them.

 

[Murmurs]

The Spirit has not stopped speaking. We are often slow to listen.

 

[pepipop]

Presumably, those who vote not on same sex marriage do so because they think it would be bad for individuals, bad for children, bad for society, and a debasement of marriage. In fact, such reasons would be pretty much in line with Catholic moral teaching and indeed all Christian moral teaching throughout the centuries.

Exactly!

 

[zz912]

Presumably, those who vote not on same sex marriage do so because they think it would be bad for individuals, bad for children, bad for society, and a debasement of marriage. In fact, such reasons would be pretty much in line with Catholic moral teaching and indeed all Christian moral teaching throughout the centuries.

That’s an example of a malformed conscience, where you commit evil while thinking it good.

 

[zz912]

I have no idea what will come out of the Catholic synod. But that’s the point with some of the mainline Protestant Christians. They are not merely tied to nor limiting themselves to past centuries and closed off to further and new understandings when they come to them.

Correct, they continue to wander further and further from the Christian faith.

 

[Tigg]

Our intellectual superiority and progressive development (which, of course confuses the conscience) comes from a house built on sand - its foundation is cultural and social conditioning rather than the actual unchanging word of God.

 

[outremer]

thejournal.ie/bishop-vote-no-bigoted-reasons-2112302-May2015/

While the headline is not the source of this scandal, I must find his comments are confusing.

First off, I would imagine those above him would disagree that one can vote in favor of same sex marriage in good conscience. Secondly, for him to say that same sex couples can raise a child in a loving environment and then say its a dangerous experiment seems to contradict itself.

Adieu, formerly Catholic Ireland. What a sad state of affairs.

So much for that “New Springtime” of the Church, right?

 

[pepipop]

Adieu, formerly Catholic Ireland. What a sad state of affairs.

So much for that “New Springtime” of the Church, right?

Well I can only go on my personal experience whilst living in Ireland. I’m currently attending Our Lady of Perpetual Succor novena (30 years running) with 3 services per day. The church has a very large car-park attached to it and I usually attend the 7pm mass, whereby the car-park is full and the church is ~ 80% full.

I attended a 10am mass yesterday, assuming similar numbers and couldn’t even get into the car park it was chock-a-block and had to park quite a long ways out. The church was packed with people having to stand. So I have not seen this great decline - although will admit that my nephews / nieces in their late teens/early 20’s do not attend church but that seems to be the case worldwide.

I also have Scottish and USA nieces/nephews and they’re all the same - none go to church.

 

[SonOfMan]

The Spirit has not stopped speaking. We are often slow to listen.

The point Im making in this thread with that, is that it will be a genuine change, not simply a devlopment. The future generation of Catholics will go on claiming that the RCC hasnt changed in 2000 years and will continue to play word games and insist it was just discipline, or the Church enlarged doctrine or whatever. That would clearly be false in such a situation, as it would be plain to see the disproval of it before, and the approval of it after. That goes for many other things that the Church has changed its position on historically, in an attempt to keep up with the times and the surrounding culture.

 

[_Abyssinia]

-]/-]I think some people could get a shock if they don’t see the change they may be anticipating at the end of the Synod. Remember the concerning things people saw in the middterm report, those things were mostly pulled back when it came to the final report. 3 paragraphs that were voted on did not get 2/3rd support from the Bishops, Pope Francis chose to include those in the document that went out to dioceses?, we don’t know why, but it could just means he wants to hear people’s responses and be open to that. We will see.

 

[TMC]

The point Im making in this thread with that, is that it will be a genuine change, not simply a devlopment. The future generation of Catholics will go on claiming that the RCC hasnt changed in 2000 years and will continue to play word games and insist it was just discipline, or the Church enlarged doctrine or whatever. That would clearly be false in such a situation, as it would be plain to see the disproval of it before, and the approval of it after. That goes for many other things that the Church has changed its position on historically, in an attempt to keep up with the times and the surrounding culture.

Yes, I agree. And, as you point out, that is nothing new. Except that I don’t agree that the Church is merely keeping up with the times. The Church is advancing toward the Truth.

 

[TMC]

I think some people could get a shock if they don’t see the change they may be anticipating at the end of the Synod. Remember the concerning things people saw in the middterm report, those things were mostly pulled back when it came to the final report. 3 paragraphs that were voted on did not get 2/3rd support from the Bishops, Pope Francis chose to include those, we don’t know why, but it could just means he wants to hear people’s responses and be open to that. We will see.

I suspect there will be disappointments on both sides. I think there will be adjustments that some think go too far, but that many think don’t go far enough. But, as you say, we will see.

 

[JimG]

If the Church were to approve of homosexual conduct, or to deny the permanence of marriage, that would indeed be a change of doctrine. Just as it would be a change of doctrine if the Church were to approve of pre-marital sex, cohabitation, adultery, or polygamy, or renounce its teaching on contraception.

 

[SonOfMan]

If the Church were to approve of homosexual conduct, or to deny the permanence of marriage, that would indeed be a change of doctrine. Just as it would be a change of doctrine if the Church were to approve of pre-marital sex, cohabitation, adultery, or polygamy, or renounce its teaching on contraception.

Thats correct, and from the articles Ive read, all of what you listed (with the exception of adultery) is on the table and up for consideration at this coming Synod. All under the guise of pastoral care. But seriously, I find it disturbing for the RCC (who is claimed to have never changed for 2000 years) to have high ranking officials say they need to decrease in ideology.

 

[JimG]

Thats correct, and from the articles Ive read, all of what you listed (with the exception of adultery) is on the table and up for consideration at this coming Synod. All under the guise of pastoral care. But seriously, I find it disturbing for the RCC (who is claimed to have never changed for 2000 years) to have high ranking officials say they need to decrease in ideology.

I wasn’t aware that the Synod was considering changing the Church’s teaching as to any form of extramarital sex. But I agree that it would be disturbing to consider a change in core moral teachings.

 

[SonOfMan]

I wasn’t aware that the Synod was considering changing the Church’s teaching as to any form of extramarital sex. But I agree that it would be disturbing to consider a change in core moral teachings.

It was another controversial piece of the last Synod, which some bishops said cohabitation and gay marriages shared some positives and had some good aspects worth looking into. Polygamy was also briefly touched upon as well, what to do with converts who already have several “wives.”