Bishop Athanasius Schneider: ‘We are in the fourth great crisis of the Church’

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What a huge blessing to hear the words from this bishop’s mouth. Please pray for him and others like him because “New Church” is going to be mightily opposed especially since they expend much energy in denying there even is a crisis!
 
Nevertheless, he can foresee a split coming, leading to an eventual renewal of the Church on traditional lines. But, he believes, this will not be before the crisis has plunged the Church further into disarray. Eventually, he thinks, the “anthropocentric” [man-centred] clerical system will collapse. “This liberal clerical edifice will crash down because they have no roots and no fruits,” he said.
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So much to ponder here, I can’t wait to read the entire article. Oddly enough, our pastor referred to the term anthropocentric in relation to the liturgy in which it has often been observed that man continually tries to draw attention back to himself which conflicts with the ends of the Mass, that is, praise and adoration of the Lord.
 
Tigg said:
What a huge blessing to hear the words from this bishop’s mouth. Please pray for him and others like him because “New Church” is going to be mightily opposed especially since they expend much energy in denying there even is a crisis!
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With all due respect, I find the good Bishop’s choice of words overly-dramatic and unnecessarily divisive. I do agree with him that, “Popularity is false." But I would add that brotherly love and respect are universally appreciated
 
I think Bp. Schneider is fantastic.

The things he says about anthropocentrism are very profound.
 
HCTC said:
With all due respect, I find the good Bishop’s choice of words overly-dramatic and unnecessarily divisive. I do agree with him that, “Popularity is false." But I would add that brotherly love and respect are universally appreciated
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🙂
You are entitled to your opinion; mine is that his views are a breath of fresh air and will bring hope and a new clarity to the confusion of these times.
 
He is so right! I don’t see how this could not be seen as a crisis. I went to a Catholic high school and it was incredibly disillusioning to me, and I’ve mentioned it before so I will not again. That, plus it seems like an extreme rarity for someone to even believe all that the Church teaches? 70% don’t believe in the Eucharist, most don’t go to Mass. Most of all, nearly no one wants to believe or follow the teachings regarding one particular area of morality.
 
KathleenGee said:
Totally right on, Bishop!!!

The church leadership down to the parish level must recover what was never intended to be discarded, to renew our understanding of the good that has been retained,…and the need for penance.
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Thank you for this!
 
Yep, we’re in a crisis alright.

But wouldn’t the Great (Western) Schism also count as a crisis? So wouldn’t we be in our fifth major crisis?

Or does that count as a minor crisis? :hmmm:
 
McCall1981 said:
I think Bp. Schneider is fantastic.

The things he says about anthropocentrism are very profound.
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I get what he is saying about anthropocentrism, as though man is the center with God at the peripheries. Pope Francis speaks of an anthropocentric immanentism in Evangelium Gaudium that is self-serving, a form of spiritual worldliness. But at the same time, man really is in the center. Pope St. John Paul II puts man “at the center of the cosmos” and yet Jesus Christ “is the centre of the universe and of history” (Redemptoris Hominis 1). In his Incarnation Christ has made both God and man the center of the world. A properly Christocentric worldview is also anthropocentric. We ought to keep this in mind so that our zeal for more reverence in the liturgy doesn’t end up ignoring man himself.

Just trying to create more discussion. :cool:
 
He spoke at a retreat at our parish several years ago. I was impressed with him then, and even more so now.
 
and he says the Latin Mass. I think I know who my favorite bishop is now.
 
During a trip to England the Soviet-born bishop says the Church today is experiencing ‘tremendous confusion’
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What Catholic here can deny this? Tremendous confusion to be sure. The majority of Catholics see no conflict whatsoever with their support for contraception, homosexuality, the ordination of women, divorce, gay marriage, sex outside marriage, etc. etc. etc., and their Catholic Faith. It’s pretty much become the new “norm.” I’d even go so far as to say that you’ll probably have a much easier time finding a dissenting Catholic than a faithful Catholic. The overwhelming majority dissent on one issue or another, and don’t even bat an eye at it.
Bishop Schneider is best known for arguing that Holy Communion should be received on the tongue while kneeling, which he insists is the more efficient way to foster respect for the Sacrament and to prevent abuse of the Sacred Hosts.
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Nailed it!!! Here he is with Fr. Mitch talking about respect for the Eucharist and Communion in the hand.
youtube.com/watch?v=Jii6NCfTW68
At the heart of the problems, he believes, is the creeping introduction of a man-centred agenda, while in some churches God, in the tabernacle, really is materially put in a corner, while the priest takes centre stage.
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Nailed it again!!! In some Catholic Churches you actually have to hunt for the tabernacle. What a terrible shame.This Bishop is so refreshing to see! Someone who respects Sacred Tradition and is not in the least bit ashamed to express it. God Bless You Bishop Athanasius Schneider! We need many more like you.

Peace, Mark
 
glendab said:
Nice article. I’ll have to find out more about the man. Honestly I’ve never heard of him.
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He is an auxiliary bishop in the country of Kazahkstan, a nation best known as the home of Borat. His archdiocese has only 80,000 Catholics.

This does not diminish the truth of his views. But it does explain why he is relatively unknown.
 
CrossofChrist said:
I get what he is saying about anthropocentrism, as though man is the center with God at the peripheries. Pope Francis speaks of an anthropocentric immanentism in Evangelium Gaudium that is self-serving, a form of spiritual worldliness. But at the same time, man really is in the center. Pope St. John Paul II puts man “at the center of the cosmos” and yet Jesus Christ “is the centre of the universe and of history” (Redemptoris Hominis 1). In his Incarnation Christ has made both God and man the center of the world. A properly Christocentric worldview is also anthropocentric. We ought to keep this in mind so that our zeal for more reverence in the liturgy doesn’t end up ignoring man himself.

Just trying to create more discussion. :cool:
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I agree that in some sense there is a certain level or place for humanity that is appropriate. But I think (and I think this is what Bp. Schneider is saying) that the emphasis has swung MUCH too far in the direction of anthropocentrism and away from Christocentrism. Its not that there is no place at all for the “human” part of things, just that we are way out of balance.
 
Coatimundi said:
He is an auxiliary bishop in the country of Kazahkstan, a nation best known as the home of Borat. His archdiocese has only 80,000 Catholics.

This does not diminish the truth of his views. But it does explain why he is relatively unknown.
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The article also gives a little detail on his life (grew up in East Germany under the Communists, etc).

And he’s written some pretty awesome books, there are links to some of them at the end of the article.
 
I do think that there is something to be said for his comments about the liturgy becoming more anthropocentric and less Christocentric. I have noticed this for some time now.

The Sacraments, or at least our perception of them, have become more anthropocentric. With many of them, we have turned them into a celebration of us, rather than a worship of God. People make many comments about how they like Mass to be celebrated, which hymns we prefer, how much we get out of it, and so forth. We judge confessors by how they make us feel, not the fact that our sins are forgiven. We even turn First Penance into a family event with photos! I need not even mention marriage.

I like the Mass in English especially in the new translation. And I haven’t been to an EF Mass for a long time. But go back and read the Canon of the Mass from the 1962 missal, for example. The language is full of supplication and worship addressed to God the Father. It’s all about him, not us. It’s one long prayer addressed to the Father, through the Son, in the unity of the Holy Spirit.

Of course, it’s still there, even in the Ordinary Form, but for a long time the original ICEL translations managed to bury the transcendence and the worship and the supplication with its supposedly more modern and ‘spare’ language.

We used to pray, “O God, come to my assistance!” (a supplication.) Now we pray “God, come to my assistance.” (a command) A subtle but real change.
 
JimG said:
I do think that there is something to be said for his comments about the liturgy becoming more anthropocentric and less Christocentric. I have noticed this for some time now.

The Sacraments, or at least our perception of them, have become more anthropocentric. With many of them, we have turned them into a celebration of us, rather than a worship of God. People make many comments about how they like Mass to be celebrated, which hymns we prefer, how much we get out of it, and so forth. We judge confessors by how they make us feel, not the fact that our sins are forgiven. We even turn First Penance into a family event with photos! I need not even mention marriage.

I like the Mass in English especially in the new translation. And I haven’t been to an EF Mass for a long time. But go back and read the Canon of the Mass from the 1962 missal, for example. The language is full of supplication and worship addressed to God the Father. It’s all about him, not us. It’s one long prayer addressed to the Father, through the Son, in the unity of the Holy Spirit.

Of course, it’s still there, even in the Ordinary Form, but for a long time the original ICEL translations managed to bury the transcendence and the worship and the supplication with its supposedly more modern and ‘spare’ language.

We used to pray, “O God, come to my assistance!” (a supplication.) Now we pray “God, come to my assistance.” (a command) A subtle but real change.
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O Lord, make haste to help us!
 
JimG said:
I like the Mass in English especially in the new translation.
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With all due respect, there’ll be some who think having Mass only in their language is somewhat me-centered as well.

Worship starts with having the priest sacrifice the best there is to God. That can only happen if a consecration into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity occurs and the priest consumes part of it. This should be going on all over the world every single minute, whether we’re there for it or not. The words and prayers are between the priest and God, whether they’re in Latin, Spanish, Polish, etc. Our obligation is only to attend one of these per week. It doesn’t really matter whether we even understand what’s being said or what’s going on except that God is pleased with the sacrifice being offered.

That said, there are still plenty of flaws in the new English translation, but not enough to invalidate the sacrifice. Enjoy it while you can before 2014 English becomes extinct.
 
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