Bishop Burke excommunicates women "priests"

[Lux_et_veritas]

“Where 2 or more gather in my name, I will be there” Sound familiar? Don’t you worry, Christ is with this church.

Please clarify.

Does this mean that if a group of people who favor homosexual marriage or abortion hire a renegade priest and reject the priest sent by the Bishop, that Christ is there because these people errantly believe homosexual marriage or abortion is fine?

I’m afraid your arguments are loaded with relativism and perhaps even consequentialism.

Truth is not dynamic. Rather it is fixed.

One cannot bend a compass needle and define North any place that it suits him. North remains north and the bent needle only a distortion of north.

 

[saylo]

An opinion is one thing. An attack on the person of a Bishop is another. Dislike for Abp Burke shouldn’t cloud what is happening there in StL.

I’m not sure how one can be “for” a bishop or not.

Either one is aligned with Rome in his actions or he is not. Hence, it’s a matter of being with the Church or not.

It’s like saying that one can choose to be “for” Fr. Bozek or not. Yet, Fr. Bozek is not with the Church, does not act in her name, therefore, those who support Fr. Bozek, do not support the Church, but their own desires.

I’m sorry but your comments are troubling and contradictory to sound catechesis and virtue.

the most important thing in all this is for those who have be excommunicated to renounce their actions; reconcile themselves back to the church (bishop burke will give them absolution and reinstate them back into the fold). these souls are in trouble.

there are bishops that are not in line with the vatican on some very important issues and they must not be followed or agreed with in their errors. bishop burke is not in error. he is one with the pope and a true apostle of Christ in the 21st century.

some bishops, for example, welcome homosexuals into the seminary; some forbid the latin Mass eventhough it has been made available by the vatican.

some bishops have defrocked good and holy priests for speaking out against the child abuses.

I know one such bishop…and I do not follow him because he does not obey the church.

 

[MrS]

“Where 2 or more gather in my name, I will be there” Sound familiar? Don’t you worry, Christ is with this church.

mikew

Please get out the scripture and just go back 5 verses. The instruction is to address error (even if it is your brother). If he does not listen, take another to convince him of his error… and if he still does not listen, take it to the Church.

(levels leading to the ultimate authority which is the Church)

And if he does not listen to the Church let him be anathama… for, where two or more are gathered in My Name, there I am.

(Your exclusing of the thought process is one of the contributing factors which some use to declare that “we are church” and we have the authority.)

The good Bishop is speaking the truth of the Church, not his own personal opinion. Thus it is final, and you need to accept that. If you think Bishop Burke’s decisions are personal, or butting in, it is you who needs to have one or more come and talk to you.

 

[rinnie]

Isnt it amazing how no matter what, even in this day and age that the Church still Prevails. There may be some things in the Church that arent right, But it sure wasnt any fault of the Church. It was man who failed not the church, But it is also the Church that will work through Man the right man to lead the People back on the right path. Jesus left the church to the disciples he hand picked them. If he wanted women he would have picked them also. Dont get me wrong women play an important role in the church, but she wont lead it. And if the time would ever come its not going to be from a women making herself a priest. It would come from the leader of the church. And he said no. The Pope still rules. He is the leader like it or not, And we must follow him.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

the most important thing in all this is for those who have be excommunicated to renounce their actions; reconcile themselves back to the church (bishop burke will give them absolution and reinstate them back into the fold). these souls are in trouble.

there are bishops that are not in line with the vatican on some very important issues and they must not be followed or agreed with in their errors. bishop burke is not in error. he is one with the p[ope and a true apostle of Christ in the 21st century.

some bishops, for example, welcome homosexuals into the seminary; some forbid the latin Mass eventhough it has been made available by the vatican.

some bishops have defrocked good and holy priests for speaking out against the child abuses.

I know one such bishop…and I do not follow him because he does not obey the church.

Agreed, Saylo.

In this case, Archbishop Burke has gone way out in attempts to bring these people back.

In the links I provided in my first post in this thread (I think page 1), Ed Peters explains how Abp Burke is showing other bishops how to go about their duties in this regard.

For so many decades, bishops - many out of an errant understanding of “charity”, have let certain behaviors slide. Any bishop who follows his conscience in protecting the innocent faithful who may also fall into error on account of leaders (in this case a renegae priest and a disoriented lay board), is fulfiling his duties as bishop. To just sit quietly is to neglect his duties.

As for what prompted any of this and whether Cdl Rigali was justified in eliminating the most unusual financial situation in that parish, doesn’t matter. It doesn’t even matter if it was a smooth situation for 500 years. The bishop determined that financial control had to change. The lay board then went out of control hiring a renegade priest who would later “ordain” women.

Defending any of these disobedient actions is to give in to some kind of consequentialism (i.e., they were justified because the bishop did this or that).

Not.
[/quote]

 

[mikew262]

An opinion is one thing. An attack on the person of a Bishop is another. Dislike for Abp Burke shouldn’t cloud what is happening there in StL.

I’m not sure how one can be “for” a bishop or not.

Either one is aligned with Rome in his actions or he is not. Hence, it’s a matter of being with the Church or not.

It’s like saying that one can choose to be “for” Fr. Bozek or not. Yet, Fr. Bozek is not with the Church, does not act in her name, therefore, those who support Fr. Bozek, do not support the Church, but their own desires.

I’m sorry but your comments are troubling and contradictory to sound catechesis and virtue.

The bishop is simply a man and prone to error just like anybody else, thats why there are appeal processes in place. Of course I can disagree with the Bishop, I have a right to an opinion just like anybody else. Geez!!!

Fr. Bozek, while in error on some issues still has my admiration to a certain degree, for continuing to minister to the church’s congregation.

Some of you folks need to start thinking for yourselves. I’m a Catholic, but not a robot.

 

[saylo]

makes you wonder if those women “priests” and the priest and the parish board believes they were following the Holy Spirit.

If they do and they say as much publicly then in my opinion this a clear sin against the Holy Spirit…the sin that Jesus says cannot be forgiven. To rebel against the bishop is only a stride away from eternal damnation.

They all need to reflect on the gravity of what they have done pray for forgiveness to the Holy Spirit and then humbly beseech the good bishop to be returned to full communion with the one, true church.

there is no doubt that the bishop stands ready to receive them back…no doubt whatsoever.

They must see the gravity of what they have done and realize that they are on the road to hell. and it is for all eternity.

pray that they come to their senses.

 

[mikew262]

]

The good Bishop is speaking the truth of the Church, not his own personal opinion. Thus it is final, and you need to accept that. If you think Bishop Burke’s decisions are personal, or butting in, it is you who needs to have one or more come and talk to you.

Not everything is so cut and dry. Sometimes common sense has to come into play. Nobody needs to come talk to me, I’m just fine.

 

[DJgang]

What I really don’t understand is … why didn’t these women just leave and go to the Episcopal Church. Seriously! They would have ordained them with open arms.

They excommunicated themselves.

 

[saylo]

i am getting the feeling that a few here that object to bishop burke’s actions are on the edge of false pride. false pride is a very dangerous condition because it does not get noticed until it is too late…a lot of the time.

 

[wanner47]

The bishop is simply a man and prone to error just like anybody else, thats why there are appeal processes in place. Of course I can disagree with the Bishop, I have a right to an opinion just like anybody else. Geez!!!

I don’t think anyone is saying you don’t have the RIGHT to disagree. They’re merely stating why they think your disagreements are without merit in this instance.

Also, as G.K. Chesterton once said, “Having the right to do something is not at all the same as being right in doing it.”

Fr. Bozek, while in error on some issues still has my admiration to a certain degree, for continuing to minister to the church’s congregation.

Actually, no. He cannot effectively “minister” to any congregation since he does not have the power or the ability to confer valid Sacraments. This is due to his own lack of obedience to the authority he VOWED before God to obey. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think very highly at all of someone who makes a solemn vow and promise before God and then breaks that vow willy-nilly.

Some of you folks need to start thinking for yourselves. I’m a Catholic, but not a robot.

You know, this is the typical Protestant accusation against Catholics – that we let the Church do our thinking for us, etc. Perhaps you should start ACTING like a Catholic if you claim to be one, because right now you are acting in ideological disobedience to the Church that Christ founded.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

What I really don’t understand is … why didn’t these women just leave and go to the Episcopal Church. Seriously! They would have ordained them with open arms.

They excommunicated themselves.

Because they are “progressives”. Just like others on the left, they prefer to try to destroy (especially from within) what they do not like or agree with.

 

[bcuster]

I thank God for giving us good and holy priests, deacons, and bishops! May God bless Bishop Burke and bring those in schism home.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I thank God for giving us good and holy priests, deacons, and bishops! May God bless Bishop Burke and bring those in schism home.

 

[Brendan]

The bishop is simply a man and prone to error just like anybody else, thats why there are appeal processes in place. Of course I can disagree with the Bishop, I have a right to an opinion just like anybody else. Geez!!!

You are correct. We recognize that you have an opinion on this matter.

That said, not all opinions on a given matter are equal. Given your opinion on the matter, and +Burkes, I happen to given far more weight to +Burke.

Fr. Bozek, while in error on some issues still has my admiration to a certain degree, for continuing to minister to the church’s congregation.

The parish’s congregation was always going to have ministry. It might not have been where they wanted, and under the circumstances they wanted, but yes, any Catholic who wanted to remain part of the Church was going to recieve ministry, without Fr. Bozek.

All Fr. Bozek did was model disobedience, nothing more.

Some of you folks need to start thinking for yourselves. I’m a Catholic, but not a robot.

I did think about it, and my conclusion is that you are sadly mistaken.

 

[mikew262]

After some reflection, I want to apologize to Archbishop Burke’s supporters on this forum. While I do disagree with some of his actions , I feel I was a bit harsh with some of my comments. I’m sure the Archbishop in his mind is doing the right things, and I do agree with some of them; the woman priests is one of them. He didn’t have any choice on that. Now the St. Stan’s mess is another matter (before Fr. Bozek came on the scene), but I won’t go into that again.

However, I do suggest that my fellow catholics do learn to think for themselves and realize from time to time that our Church leadership may not make the right decision on some issue. Believe it or not, they are not always right and it’s ok to say so.

 

[rinnie]

After some reflection, I want to apologize to Archbishop Burke’s supporters on this forum. While I do disagree with some of his actions , I feel I was a bit harsh with some of my comments. I’m sure the Archbishop in his mind is doing the right things, and I do agree with some of them; the woman priests is one of them. He didn’t have any choice on that. Now the St. Stan’s mess is another matter (before Fr. Bozek came on the scene), but I won’t go into that again.

However, I do suggest that my fellow catholics do learn to think for themselves and realize from time to time that our Church leadership may not make the right decision on some issue. Believe it or not, they are not always right and it’s ok to say so.

Quote ccc 100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted Solely to the Magisterium of the Church that is to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. unquote. also as Catholics we have Faith, Quote ccc We beleive all that which is contained in the word of God written or handed down and which the CHurch proposes for belief as divinely revealed. Paul VI.unquote. Now see what you are asking us to do, not listen to the church to take it upon ourselves to do what we think, that what we think is much better for us then what is divinely revealed. Well if i were to do that i would have to leave the RCC. I would have no Faith. If i am not going to follow the Church and follow Man, why go to church at all. Whom do i go, what man do i follow? Because to leave the RCC why not just give my husband or kids a bible and say here you teach me. Please understand i am not being sarcastic or hateful that is just the way I see it.

 

[mikew262]

Quote ccc 100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted Solely to the Magisterium of the Church that is to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. unquote. also as Catholics we have Faith, Quote ccc We beleive all that which is contained in the word of God written or handed down and which the CHurch proposes for belief as divinely revealed. Paul VI.unquote. Now see what you are asking us to do, not listen to the church to take it upon ourselves to do what we think, that what we think is much better for us then what is divinely revealed. Well if i were to do that i would have to leave the RCC. I would have no Faith. If i am not going to follow the Church and follow Man, why go to church at all. Whom do i go, what man do i follow? Because to leave the RCC why not just give my husband or kids a bible and say here you teach me. Please understand i am not being sarcastic or hateful that is just the way I see it.

I do respect your opinion, but keep in mind the Church has made mistakes over the many years, not necessarily in morals and faith but in other actions (Inquisitions, bad Popes, hiding the priest scandal, to name a few). Many feel Vatican 2 was a mistake. Just keep this in mind. Thinking for yourself doesn’t make you a bad Catholic.

 

[rinnie]

I do respect your opinion, but keep in mind the Church has made mistakes over the many years, not necessarily in morals and faith but in other actions (Inquisitions, bad Popes, hiding the priest scandal, to name a few). Many feel Vatican 2 was a mistake. Just keep this in mind. Thinking for yourself doesn’t make you a bad Catholic.

I also respect you opinion, but remember that is the reason we go to the CC because or the morals and Faith. As far as the scandals, to not have them in the CC, you would have to get rid of satan. What does Jesus tell us about satan he will be hiding in my clothes. Think about it if the devil could destroy the RCC whats left. He won. As far as the scandals go, it was the Pope who exposed it. I would never stick up for evil, and yes there are things done to the Church that were wrong. But one could never say any of it was the teachings of the Church. What people try to do is see the Church as the bad guy. IT was man whom turned to satan who tried to bring down the Church. But the Church comes from Christ, it is united with him one body his body. The scandal never changed the Catechists, liturgies, theologians etc. Christ warned us scandal will come but the CC will prevail. He will protect his Church. And he does. Its still here and will be untill he comes again.

 

[mangy_dog]

While in this case, he didn’t really have any choice, I’m not really a big Burke supporter. He acts more like a CEO, no parish field experience from what I understand. He was a canon lawyer. He’s made a mess out of the St. Stan situation. Zero people skills. Tends to butt his nose into business even though he has no direct authority over it.

BTW, I live close to STL, so I hear/read about him all the time.

I believe that the Holy Spirit has the right man in the job. CEO style or not, he’s the right guy for the job.

Bishop Burke cannot possibly be in any way pleased or happy about this decision. But what needs to be done, needs to be done and I’m sure it wasn’t spur of the moment decision.
God bless Bishop Burke and illuminate the souls of the ex-communicated, so that by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit, they retract and repent from their current stance on this heretic issue.

Instead of criticizing Bishop Burke, we should pray for him in his tough decisions. May St. Michael Archangel protect him and the church against the heresies and apostasy attacking his flock.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.