Bishop calls homosexuality ‘gift from God,’ seeks to end ‘prejudices that kill’

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Sy_Noe said:
How many times does the poster need to explain?

The poster already said that your Catholic Church says many things are sins. And though he or she honors those who live by its teachings, he or she is not a Roman Catholic. Believes homosexuality instead is an integral part of being human for millions of people. Has said that his or her branch of the Church has come to teach about homosexuality as it has and that you both simply see the teachings of Christ in different ways, and that it is what it is and that there isn’t much else to say other than you disagree with one another on this matter.

I don’t see any of that at all as suggesting his or her word carries more weight than God’s. Nor does it admit to not following God’s word. It merely suggests that each of your understandings and each your faith communties’ understandings today of God’s word are not in agreement. That’s why it’s called faith.
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I was looking for his response, that’s why I asked him and not you. Thank you. 🙂

So far he hasn’t explained how homosexuality is a gift from God and there’s a reason he can’t do that.
 
Catholic13 said:
I was looking for his response, that’s why I asked him and not you. Thank you. 🙂

So far he hasn’t explained how homosexuality is a gift from God and there’s a reason he can’t do that.
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I have stated a number of times that I am only affirming what the Bishop (one of YOURS) said publicly. And I really don’t want to repeat myself. Go back and read my post and you’ll find the answer there.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I have stated a number of times that I am only affirming what the Bishop (one of YOURS) said publicly. And I really don’t want to repeat myself. Go back and read my post and you’ll find the answer there.
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This is exactly the type of silence I was talking about. You can’t defend your argument.
 
pnewton said:
I have always found it objectionable to single out people with this particular sin as somehow in a difference situation than the rest of sinful humanity.
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I don’t think the Church does that, but a lot of Protestant denominations do.
 
Peter J:
Thank you, but I’ll pass – or, at least, if I decide to put it on my “to read” list it will most likely be at the bottom.
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wow, such prejudice. But, that is okay. I’ll take note of it and just leave it at that.
 
Earlier I mentioned that homosexuality was one of the few sins that was an abomination. It is an abomination, but what I was thinking of was the five sins that cry to heaven:
1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are "sins that cry to heaven": the blood of Abel Cf. Gen 4:10], the sin of the Sodomites [Cf. Gen 18:20; 19:13], the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt [Cf. Ex 3:7-10], the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan [Cf. Ex 20:20-22], injustice to the wage earner [Cf. Deut 24:14-15; Jas 5:4].
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BroIgnatius said:
Earlier I mentioned that homosexuality was one of the few sins that was an abomination. It is an abomination, but what I was thinking of was the five sins that cry to heaven:
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The sin of the sodomites had to do with sex, not attraction.
 
BroIgnatius said:
I am talking about homosexual sex.
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Alright. I would just caution you, then, that the Church makes the distinction. Homosexuality is an unchosen condition that is not sinful. Homosexual acts are gravely sinful.
 
I think as far as what someone said about where do you draw the line, bestiality and such, well I think mutual consent is important as well as being an adult. So no pedophiles, no bestiality.

I have thought about this issue of homosexuality. I am Catholic but I also feel love for people who are gay and don’t think they should be judged as being evil because they love someone of the same sex. I think in the case of Sodom this was an act of non-consent. They were trying to force themselves onto the angels. This was wrong.

I don’t know enough about the catechism, but does it ever change in time? Maybe someday down the road it will say that homosexuality is ok. Pope Francis has such a merciful heart I don’t think he thinks bad about homosexuals either.

I think it is a difficult road for anyone to go down because it is a minority road. There will be attacks against them, etc. discrimination. To be homosexual you have to be brave. I understand and accept Catholic teachings in the catechism but on this one I personally struggle with. I just don’t see God sending people to hell just because they love someone of the same sex.
 
elohimrules said:
I think as far as what someone said about where do you draw the line, bestiality and such, well I think mutual consent is important as well as being an adult. So no pedophiles, no bestiality.

I have thought about this issue of homosexuality. I am Catholic but I also feel love for people who are gay and don’t think they should be judged as being evil because they love someone of the same sex. I think in the case of Sodom this was an act of non-consent. They were trying to force themselves onto the angels. This was wrong.

I don’t know enough about the catechism, but does it ever change in time? ** Maybe someday down the road it will say that homosexuality is ok. ** Pope Francis has such a merciful heart I don’t think he thinks bad about homosexuals either.

I think it is a difficult road for anyone to go down because it is a minority road. There will be attacks against them, etc. discrimination. To be homosexual you have to be brave. I understand and accept Catholic teachings in the catechism but on this one I personally struggle with. I just don’t see God sending people to hell just because they love someone of the same sex.
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:rolleyes: Nobody can change laws which were set by God. How could a Catholic not know this?
 
elohimrules said:
To be homosexual you have to be brave.
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Nah. To come out you have to be brave. To risk family rejection, you have to be brave. To be gay and chaste, you have to be brave. But just to have sex with people? That doesn’t require much bravery.
 
elohimrules said:
I think as far as what someone said about where do you draw the line, bestiality and such, well I think mutual consent is important as well as being an adult. So no pedophiles, no bestiality.

I have thought about this issue of homosexuality. I am Catholic but I also feel love for people who are gay and don’t think they should be judged as being evil because they love someone of the same sex. I think in the case of Sodom this was an act of non-consent. They were trying to force themselves onto the angels. This was wrong.

I don’t know enough about the catechism, but does it ever change in time? Maybe someday down the road it will say that homosexuality is ok. Pope Francis has such a merciful heart I don’t think he thinks bad about homosexuals either.

I think it is a difficult road for anyone to go down because it is a minority road. There will be attacks against them, etc. discrimination. To be homosexual you have to be brave. I understand and accept Catholic teachings in the catechism but on this one I personally struggle with. I just don’t see God sending people to hell just because they love someone of the same sex.
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Sentimentalism is a road to ruin.

It’s like not disciplining an unruly child because it’s tough.

Evil acts (to be distinguished from attraction itself) need to be condemned, or else there will be consequences (understood and perceived to be punishments) to be faced.

The evil is not about consent. It is purely about the unnatural acts they tried to do.

Fornication has consent, but it is still evil.

Same with homosexual acts.

The “progressive” idea that consent makes everything OK is wrong.

What is permissible or impermissible does not depend on consent.

It is not brave to be homosexual. It is brave to be chaste (gay OR straight) in this world that’s saturated with lust.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Alright. I would just caution you, then, that the Church makes the distinction. Homosexuality is an unchosen condition that is not sinful. Homosexual acts are gravely sinful.
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I am FULLY aware of that.

BTW, the Church does not say that homosexuality is “unchosen”. CCC 2357 says “Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.” And 2358 says that the inclination is disordered: “This inclination, which is objectively disordered”

Homosexuality can be chosen. I have known people who have chosen it, I have known women who were seduced into it when they were vulnerable after leaving their husbands for domestic violence. I have known people who were psychologically groomed for it when before then homosexuality was not in their universe.
 
BroIgnatius said:
I am FULLY aware of that.

BTW, the Church does not say that homosexuality is “unchosen”. CCC 2357 says “Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.”

Homosexuality can be chosen. I have known people who have chosen it, I have known women who were seduced into it when they were vulnerable after leaving their husbands for domestic violence. I have known people who were psychologically groomed for it when before then homosexuality was not in their universe.
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I can buy that it is sometimes chosen. But this is rare, especially among men.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
I can buy that it is sometimes chosen. But this is rare, especially among men.
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I have known many homosexual men (and women). I used to live in a city with a high population of homosexuals and have had a homosexual man as a roommate, who informed me of a lot about that culture. Men choosing homosexuality is not rare, but I would agree it is more common among women. With both, there is a psychological genesis that I have observed, rather than “born with it.”
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Alright. I would just caution you, then, that the Church makes the distinction. Homosexuality is an unchosen condition that is not sinful. Homosexual acts are gravely sinful.
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Actually, the word “homosexuality” is one of the things I take issue with wrt the article’s headline. According to Wikipedia

“Homosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between members of the same sex or gender.”

(and similarly with other dictionaries).

I think it is quite clear that the Bishop was saying that the state of being gay (homosexual) is a gift from God, but the headline does open the door to commentators claiming that he said that gay (homosexual) sex is a gift from God.
Prodigal_Son said:
I can buy that it is sometimes chosen. But this is rare, especially among men.
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Same issue again: if we use the meaning of homosexuality as “sexual behavior between members of the same sex” then it is chosen (excepting cases of rape).
 
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