Bishop Carlson and the Saginaw Diocese

[msproule]

frommi:

So someone has to explain to me why we can…not get up in a lather over ignoring the poor.

Once again…who here is advocating this? Where has this been suggested?
:banghead:
Now that those last (imaginary) holdouts understand that nobody should forsake the poor, it must be pointed out that Christology is more complex than what you indicate. It goes far beyond our treatment of the poor, disenfranchised, and neglected.

 

[frommi]

msproule:

Once again…who here is advocating this? Where has this been suggested?
:banghead:
Now that those last (imaginary) holdouts understand that nobody should forsake the poor, it must be pointed out that Christology is more complex than what you indicate. It goes far beyond our treatment of the poor, disenfranchised, and neglected.

I was simply bothered by the idea that adoration should come ahead of social justice

 

[8640]

frommi:

I was simply bothered by the idea that adoration should come ahead of social justice

Why would this bother you!!!

Worshipping Christ??? Shouldn’t be first and primary???

The Eucharist is the source and the summit of our faith! Anything we do must start with the Eucharist and end with the Eucharist.
ADORATION OF GOD IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING ELSE!!!

Of course “faith without works is dead” and I would be the first to advocate going out and doing good works but you are down playing worship way too much.

 

[MrS]

8640:

ADORATION OF GOD IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING ELSE!!!

Of course “faith without works is dead” and I would be the first to advocate going out and doing good works but you are down playing worship way too much.

I prefer getting my “marching orders” first… and where better than during an hour or more of adoration?

 

[grotto]

First before all else, we turn to worship God. You can’t draw another breath without His Love! Once we have gotten that going, then we can feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the sick and elderly, protect the widows and orphans and worry about social justice! If you have come to believe in the Holy Roman Catholic Faith you must have accepted the Holy Eucharist (you don’t have to understand, just beg to be allowed to believe and ask God to help you with your unbelief).

The word “Christology” isn’t a measurable condition of the soul.

Warning: thou shalt not “dis” the Holy Eucharist on these forums or the chastisement will be most severe.

 

[msproule]

frommi:

I was simply bothered by the idea that adoration should come ahead of social justice

I may have missed it, but this was not suggested anywhere. I think everybody here will acknowledge that there should be a balance…
“The first is this: ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:29-31)
Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament is one very obvious and efficacious manner through which the greatest Commandment is manifested. Social justice, so long as it does not embrace Liberation Theology, is pursuant to the second.

From what I can tell, many of the Saginaw faithful are simply grateful to be witnessing the restoration of a more apparent balance. Despite your attempts at downplaying, it is truly remarkable to see things like Adoration take hold where formerly they did (or could) not. At the same time, how truly sad that any such news is such BIG news.

In my experience, far more people have been moved to good works after spending time in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament than by the reverse path.

 

[frommi]

grotto:

Warning: thou shalt not “dis” the Holy Eucharist on these forums or the chastisement will be most severe.

I’m not dissing the Eucharist…as I said, I don’t believe that Eucharistic Adoration is something that means a parish community has somehow built the kingdom.

Give me Jesus…absolutely…but don’t put him so far away from me in a monstrance on an altar.

As I’ve said many times, I don’t believe adoration is a key to understanding the real presence.

I also don’t find that I get my ‘marching orders’ during such a time.

Dissing the Eucharist? I swear…sometimes in this forum…

 

[bknebel]

wow. I was gone for an hour and look at what exploded!

We do need to focus on Social Justice… FromMi properly quotes scripture and it was right! BUT- MSProule sure put it straight- we need both in balance.

Isn’t this great that our faith is so important to us that we can have these discussions? I mean, c’mon what was christ thinking… He gave us brains and hearts! We can work and love him, and think for ourselves. I’m really glad we have a diverse church.

And FROMMI- i’m glad you’re not dissing the Eucharist. I’d hope no one would do that.

Adoration is a time of complete awe before God. We need more of it. Everyone needs to use that time to be with God and realize that sure, God may not be present in a human body, but his flesh is there. Take advantage of it! (even you, FromMi!)

OH- by the way gang, I’m using my new laptop to type this all to y’all! Praise Jesus for a bank with a good loan program and Dell having a good laptop price!

 

[msproule]

frommi:

…but don’t put him so far away from me in a monstrance on an altar.

Sit in the front row!

As I’ve said many times, I don’t believe adoration is a key to understanding the real presence.

For some, it could be that. But for others, maybe most, perhaps all, it might be described as validation of the Real Presence.

 

[8640]

frommi:

Give me Jesus…absolutely…but don’t put him so far away from me in a monstrance on an altar.

As I’ve said many times, I don’t believe adoration is a key to understanding the real presence.

How far away is your monstrance? Jeez you make it sound as if it is a hundred miles away…

And by the way…if worshiping almighty God in His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity is not the key to understanding the real presence…what is?

 

[frommi]

8640:

How far away is your monstrance? Jeez you make it sound as if it is a hundred miles away…

And by the way…if worshiping almighty God in His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity is not the key to understanding the real presence…what is?

How about knowing what transsubstantiation really is? Or how about partaking in the one bread and one cup with reverence?

Eucharistic Adoration is a devotion, and a laudable one…but sadly its often used as a sort of “litmus test” of orthodoxy.

 

[8640]

frommi:

How about knowing what transsubstantiation really is? Or how about partaking in the one bread and one cup with reverence?

I must say frommi, that you are right here. However, Eucharistic Adoration is not simply one devotion among others - it is the devotion, it is through the Eucharist that the Church derrives its life to go out and do those other great things.

 

[grotto]

Hey Bkneble: Congrats on the new laptop! I managed to get one at Christmas - a Dell - Inspiron 2200! I don’t know how to make it do lots of things yet but am learning. My next assignment is downloading pictures and figuring out how to call them up and paste them in a message! Gotta love it!

 

[frommi]

8640:

I must say frommi, that you are right here. However, Eucharistic Adoration is not simply one devotion among others - it is the devotion, it is through the Eucharist that the Church derrives its life to go out and do those other great things.

If it’s truly THE devotion…why has it only been around for 500 years…

What were people doing before that?

 

[grotto]

How are we doing on getting the Crucifix back in Church for Mass?
I have heard of a couple of “fix it” attempts are to place a large wooden cross behind the figures of the Risen Christ. Whatever happened to teach and be mindful of the sorrowful Passion and Death of Our Lord and how our lives are involved then and now?
I know protestants cannot accept Christ’s body displayed in His agony on the Cross so I think removal of the Crucifix was another heretical mistake.

 

[frommi]

grotto:

How are we doing on getting the Crucifix back in Church for Mass?
I have heard of a couple of “fix it” attempts are to place a large wooden cross behind the figures of the Risen Christ. Whatever happened to teach and be mindful of the sorrowful Passion and Death of Our Lord and how our lives are involved then and now?
I know protestants cannot accept Christ’s body displayed in His agony on the Cross so I think removal of the Crucifix was another heretical mistake.

It was heretical…it would only be heretical if it were done to deny that Jesus ever died…which to the best of my knowledge was not the intent.

Do you ever fail to exaggerate?

 

[8640]

frommi:

If it’s truly THE devotion…why has it only been around for 500 years…

What were people doing before that?

People have only been Catholic for two thousand years…

What were they doing for the 20,000 + years before that?

The fact that it has only existed for five hundred years does not take away from its prominance in the Church’s life. Obviously receiving communion is more central to our faith than eucharistic adoration, but, communion is not a devotion. Eucharistic Adoration is the devotion.

 

[8640]

I found this handy little quote from JP the Great…

“The worship of the Eucharist outside of the Mass is of inestimable value for the life of the Church.”

This is from the Encyclical Letter Ecclesia de Eucharistia, no. 25

 

[frommi]

8640:

I found this handy little quote from JP the Great…

“The worship of the Eucharist outside of the Mass is of inestimable value for the life of the Church.”

This is from the Encyclical Letter Ecclesia de Eucharistia, no. 25

That’s a nice quote…but I’m not sure what it contributes to the conversation. So, Pope John Paul II found inestimable value in adoration. I never said there was no value in it. Heck, I never said that it wasn’t of inestimable value.

 

[MrS]

frommi:

How about knowing what transsubstantiation really is? Or how about partaking in the one bread and one cup with reverence?

Eucharistic Adoration is a devotion, and a laudable one…but sadly its often used as a sort of “litmus test” of orthodoxy.

to quote Bishop Sheen exactly!!! : “…Adoration is not a devotion…”