Bishop Carlson and the Saginaw Diocese

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churchofsaginaw.org/church/index.htm

This may be the correct link for the picture of the Cathedral.

MichCath, I agree with your comments.

The interior of the Cathedral is structurally in good shape. There is not a huge need for a major remodel; everything in there is portable. The solution would be to simply put things back where they belong, the altar goes in the sanctuary, not the grand piano, etc. It would be nice to see pews/kneelers, but that is a whole different issue.

The question remains, were the changes that were supposed to be implemented in Lent, a directive or a suggestion. Either way, one would think that the Cathedral parish would be the first to take up on any suggestions for improving the Liturgy from the Bishop, not one of the last?
 
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grotto:
Can’t come up with a picture.
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Here is the correct link, picture is right at the beginning of the webpage, just above “welcome.” It is small and not very high quality.

MICATH said:
churchofsaginaw.org/church/index.htm
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It might be worth mentioning that this: www.churchofsaginaw.org is not the Diocese website. But try visiting it and figuring that out. It’s a left-wing branch of the Saginaw Catholics.

Here are some slightly better pictures.

saginaw.org/religious_life/ordination.htm
My criticism does NOT extend to the new priest in the pictures, but they’re the only ones showing the inside of the Cathedral.

I didn’t mean to go off on a tirade about the Cathedral (I actually held back quite a bit).

I just hope that over the next year or so that Bishop Carlson can make things a little more revrent, and at least make the Cathedral dignified.

BTW: The link I posted earlier is an online column written by the late Fr. Jeff Donner, who suffered a heart attack during the March 4th mass and died a short time later. 😦
 
To answer MICATH:
News from Midland:
I was not there, but I understand at the 11:00 mass Sunday at Blessed Sacrament the RCIA woman director did the homily. They still have the honey baked crumbly bread (I still cringe every time the EM’s brush their hands together after breaking the bread apart). I always wonder if they think they are just brushing off bread crumbs, or do they realize it is Jesus they are giving the brush-off to. What is interesting was having gone to St. Brigid last week and hear Father tell us that only bishops, priests, deacons can do the homily. Who knows, maybe news travels slower on the other side of town.

Per the bread issue, since Sr. Mary thought enough about it to write it up in her column of May 10th Catholic Weekly, there must have been something issued from Bishop Carlson about the bread recipe as well. Does anyone know what was said? Sister did not seem very happy in her column.
Peace, MBS1
 
Bishop Carlson has issued no changes in the Mass at this time. It is now being said June.
 
Ya know - we were talking yesterday about years of the Faith being run through the farce of the liberal modernists and concluded what it was that kept our voiced objections defeated. It was always the accusation that "well, you have to be understanding and not tell somebody they are wrong or mistaken about the liturgy,the Vatican authority, language, posture, etc.) Somehow we bought the “be meek and mild” over the truth and guess what, we’ve got a sad state of affairs. A story was told about attending a Vicariate meeting with Bishop and various Priests (none wearing a collar) and some lay people plus, of course, the inevitable None who power storms every event. In the course of the evening, Eucharisitic Adoration was mentioned and surprise, the None exclaimed “Well, just what is it with this ‘Exposed Eucharist’, its not necessary!” So… was this None corrected or immediately educated about the Holy Eucharist and our Catholic belief? No, not challenged, taught, nothing - Zip!
And, here sat a Bishop and about six Priests. When, what date on the calendar did Bishops and Priests stop teaching the Faith to the people? Well, it happened sometime in the dark after 1960.

The time is up - its time to take back our Faith and our Churches!
 
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grotto:
Ya know - we were talking yesterday about years of the Faith being run through the farce of the liberal modernists and concluded what it was that kept our voiced objections defeated. It was always the accusation that "well, you have to be understanding and not tell somebody they are wrong or mistaken about the liturgy,the Vatican authority, language, posture, etc.) Somehow we bought the “be meek and mild” over the truth and guess what, we’ve got a sad state of affairs. A story was told about attending a Vicariate meeting with Bishop and various Priests (none wearing a collar) and some lay people plus, of course, the inevitable None who power storms every event. In the course of the evening, Eucharisitic Adoration was mentioned and surprise, the None exclaimed “Well, just what is it with this ‘Exposed Eucharist’, its not necessary!” So… was this None corrected or immediately educated about the Holy Eucharist and our Catholic belief? No, not challenged, taught, nothing - Zip!
And, here sat a Bishop and about six Priests. When, what date on the calendar did Bishops and Priests stop teaching the Faith to the people? Well, it happened sometime in the dark after 1960.

The time is up - its time to take back our Faith and our Churches!
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What are you talking about? Are you now just on to venting for ventings sake?

I love the part about ‘priests without collars’ as if that matters for anything.

You find an awful lot to denigrate about this church and its faithful.
 
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grotto:
. When, what date on the calendar did Bishops and Priests stop teaching the Faith to the people? Well, it happened sometime in the dark after 1960.

The time is up - its time to take back our Faith and our Churches!
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I’m really wondering if any Post Vatican II types have actually read the Vatican II documents

The decree on the Apostolate of the Laity (Apostolicam Actuositatem)was pretty plain
However, the lay person should learn especially how to perform the mission of Christ and the Church by basing his life on belief in the divine mystery of creation and redemption and by being sensitive to the movement of the Holy Spirit who gives life to the people of God and who urges all to love God the Father as well as the world and men in Him. This formation should be deemed the basis and condition for every successful apostolate.
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In addition to spiritual formation, a solid doctrinal instruction in theology, ethics, and philosophy adjusted to differences of age, status, and natural talents, is required.
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AA chap VI

Somewhere in the 70’s, it seems that got read as a requirement to give everyone the theological, ethical and philosophical education adjusted to that of a kindergartener.
 
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Brendan:
Somewhere in the 70’s, it seems that got read as a requirement to give everyone the theological, ethical and philosophical education adjusted to that of a kindergartener.
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Which is generally how the 'authentic’s among us tend to act…like kindergarteners
 
Brendan: in your last post you included a quote that a part of has me puzzled. Its the last part "In addition to spiritual formation, a solid doctrinal instruction in theology, ethics, and philosophy
ADJUSTED TO DIFFERENCES OF AGE, STATUS, AND NATURAL TALENTS, IS REQUIRED. (I put in caps the part that I don’t get and I am just curious) Maybe somebody could 'splain to me. Thanks!
 
I just wanted to comment on the behavior of Bishop Carlson.

Last week we experienced the death of a realtively young priest (55) in our diocese (Fr. Donner). I was reading the account of his illness and death and was surprised (pleasently) by the fact that B. Carlson met his ailing priest at the hopsital (the priest was flown in to a hospital near the Bishop’s locality).

Bishop Carlson performed the Last Rite for the priest eventhough his condition was improving and the doctors had every hope. Then Fr. Donner had a second heart attack from which he could not recover.

I am impressed that B. Carlson put his priest first and made the effort to immediately visit and perform the Last Rite. This would matter to me were I a priest.

My feeling about B. Carlson is that he works very hard to do what is best for all those around him and he doesn’t put aside his faith at any time.

May the Lord bless and strengthen our Bishop,

Scapular,
 
Bishop Carlson is very pastoral and fatherly with his priests and seminarians. May God truly bless Fr. Donner and his memory.
 
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grotto:
Brendan: in your last post you included a quote that a part of has me puzzled. Its the last part "In addition to spiritual formation, a solid doctrinal instruction in theology, ethics, and philosophy
ADJUSTED TO DIFFERENCES OF AGE, STATUS, AND NATURAL TALENTS, IS REQUIRED. (I put in caps the part that I don’t get and I am just curious) Maybe somebody could 'splain to me. Thanks!
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Well, generally speaking, you don’t want to be going over Aristotle’s ‘Metaphysics’ with First Communicants.

But I seem that the Vatican II Council would pretty much command an understanding of the Aristolian\Thomisc underpinnings of our Eucharistic theology for moderatly intellegent High Schoolers, for example.
 
In addition to spiritual formation, a solid doctrinal instruction in theology, ethics, and philosophy adjusted to differences of age, status, and natural talents, is required.
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grotto:
Ha Ha - that’s what I thought too! It doesn’t mean gobbeldy gook!
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Actually, I think it means teach people at the level they can grasp. 2nd graders preparing for FHC, like my son, have a different level of understanding than do high schoolers, or perhaps older RCIA converts from other faiths, or those who are cradle catholics who have had a very thorough catachesis (you can never “know it all”). As to the “status, and natural talents” I have no idea.
 
In the latest issue of the Catholic Weekly, front page, was a picture from the funeral of Fr. Jeffery Donner.

Two of the three priests/pallbearers that I recognized in the picture were not dressed as priests, but in suits and ties. Is priestly garb now optional, even when attending Mass, in Saginaw?

The Bishop, obviously, was right there. Any idea if this is a new standard?
 
I don’t think there is a new standard at all. Where I’m from, I’ve only ever met 2 priests that do not wear clerical garb and they tend to be on the feel-good side of faith. This doesn’t mean that all priests that dont’ wear the collar are this way or that all priests that do wear the collar are staunch, it just says that those who refuse to wear their outward sign of their office tend to not be as faithful to their office. similarly, the wedding ring doesn’t make the spouse, but people sure do look strange at that person when they decide to not wear that ring!
 
Well, seeing as Fr. Donner wore a tie in lieu of the collar, perhaps those with a similar inclination felt it was a way of honoring him.

I have no idea if he was laid out in a collar.

Fr. Donner didn’t wear a collar for Bishop Untener’s funeral, where he played the organ, or for Bishop Carlson’s installation, where he performed as well.

I don’t get eschewing the collar personally – I don’t think priests have to wear it 24/7/365, but to completely drop it seems odd to me.

Now, before I get flamed, I’m not questioning devotion or anything like that – I’m simply stating my opinion.
 
Saggal, I agree with you… no need for 24/7/365, but it just seems odd that they would not wear the collar at least in the presence of the Bishop. Maybe they ran out and bought new suits for the funeral to honor Fr. Donner’s memory.
 
I think it would have looked cooler to have priests with collars on as pallbears, and even vested with albs and stoles! This would have been a better tribute, I think.

I just read the new Catholic Weekly and it appears that Fr. Donner was well loved. Thats a good thing for a priest- to be well loved.

May Choirs of angels lead him into paradise, and may the martyrs come and welcome him, to bring him home into the holy city, that he may dwell in New Jersualem. May holy angels be there at his welcoming, with all the saints who go before him there; that he may know the peace and joy of paradise, that he may enter into Everlasting Rest.
 
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