Bishop criticizes USCCB committee’s reaction to Ryan budget

[KSU]

Very odd. I don’t know the bishop but when I attended a Mass at the cathedral in Des Moines when I was hope a while back, I experienced one of the odder liturgies I have come across. It wasn’t the manner in which the mass was celebrated so much as the manner in which the faithful in the pews acted.

In addition, I know there is widespread frustration in the diocese about their only being one place to attend the TLM which has been relegated to the basement of the parish instead of being allowed in the actual church proper. I have heard some accusations that the bishop himself is extremely liberal, but I have no personal knowledge to back this up one way or the other.

I’m not surprised, Jason. The man’s seeming disregard for the Compendium regarding politics and distribution of wealth makes it unpleasant to comment about his article. This for example is so biased that I feel embarrassed for him:

"The choice of a party is difficult… Democrats [although pro-choice, etc.,etc.] have for at least a century recognized that government has a legitimate role in helping the poor and vulnerable…But Republicans now make headlines by advocating the slashing of federal programs, including those for the poor, and proposing anti-immigrant legislation.”

And this is just plain false:

“More recently, Republicans have sought to purify party ranks of even the slightest variations from party orthodoxy. Republican candidates and legislators espouse increasingly hard-line positions punitive to immigrants and cut disproportionately programs that help the poor.”

And of course he loves the absurd idea of considering Pelosi et al. as just plain old Catholics:

"Cardinal Francis George of Chicago has advocated an end to the fixation over whether someone is a "progressive Catholic,’ an ‘orthodox Catholic,’ a ‘Vatican II Catholic’ or a 'traditionalist Catholic. He urges instead a focus on being “simply Catholic.”

This is the conclusion to his article. No, it was not written by Barbara Marx Hubbard:

"Today the church [sic] can evangelize by working among people with various perspectives to counter the excesses of ideology…It would give the church [sic] renewed credibility as a moral voice and force in the culture. In the words of ‘Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship,’ 'We are called to bring together our principles and our political choices, our values and our votes, to help build a better world.”

I think we have too many committees and bishops concerned with social justice rather than with restoring the lost Faith of millions of ignorant pew sitters who have no clue about the Real Presence, but not enough bishops like Bishop Sheen who said “Judas Iscariot is the patron of social justice.” That statement from a saintly man like Bishop Sheen should have set the red flags waving long ago about the true meaning of “social justice.”

 

[_Abyssinia]

I’m not surprised, Jason. The man’s seeming disregard for the Compendium regarding politics and distribution of wealth makes it unpleasant to comment about his article. This for example is so biased that I feel embarrassed for him:

"The choice of a party is difficult… Democrats [although pro-choice, etc.,etc.] have for at least a century recognized that government has a legitimate role in helping the poor and vulnerable…But Republicans now make headlines by advocating the slashing of federal programs, including those for the poor, and proposing anti-immigrant legislation.”

And this is just plain false:

“More recently, Republicans have sought to purify party ranks of even the slightest variations from party orthodoxy. Republican candidates and legislators espouse increasingly hard-line positions punitive to immigrants and cut disproportionately programs that help the poor.”

And of course he loves the absurd idea of considering Pelosi et al. as just plain old Catholics:

"Cardinal Francis George of Chicago has advocated an end to the fixation over whether someone is a "progressive Catholic,’ an ‘orthodox Catholic,’ a ‘Vatican II Catholic’ or a 'traditionalist Catholic. He urges instead a focus on being “simply Catholic.”

This is the conclusion to his article. No, it was not written by Barbara Marx Hubbard:

"Today the church [sic] can evangelize by working among people with various perspectives to counter the excesses of ideology…It would give the church [sic] renewed credibility as a moral voice and force in the culture. In the words of ‘Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship,’ 'We are called to bring together our principles and our political choices, our values and our votes, to help build a better world.”

I think we have too many committees and bishops concerned with social justice rather than with restoring the lost Faith of millions of ignorant pew sitters who have no clue about the Real Presence, but not enough bishops like Bishop Sheen who said “Judas Iscariot is the patron of social justice.” That statement from a saintly man like Bishop Sheen should have set the red flags waving long ago about the true meaning of “social justice.”

Republicans are not anti immigrant, republicans do not support illegal immigration which most democrats do not if you look at surveys. Republicans are pro legal immigration which is line with Catholic teaching. Republicans have done a lot more than just defend the right to life; defames of marriage between man and one woman; defending religious freedom

Catholic teaching has been critical of the modern welfare state but is supportive of a safety net

1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus, Blessed Pope John Paul II says

[D]efects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good. By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending

Catholic teaching does not level immigration, federal programs with pro life and marriage. There are what Pope Benedict has called non negotiable political issues to be of central concern and there are issues where Catholics can have differing views on them. Protection for life from conception and defence of marriage are non negotiable

Intrinsic evil like abortion should not be equated to differing opinions on how to help the poor and federal programs being 1 opinion

 

[Traditium]

I’ve written about these issues on my blog at www.traditium.com, specifically on Medicare at traditium.com/2012/08/19/on-medicare/#more-496. It’s a bit long to post it all here, but thought I’d pass the info along.

Thanks!

JD

 

[Swiss_Guy]

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=15264

 

[Swiss_Guy]

What? catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=15267

Well, not as good as the one above it since it implies that spending cuts are always immoral. That said,

 

[Michael_Mayo]

“Latino Catholics provide some hope,” he adds. “With strong pro-life, pro-family sensibilities and pro-poor and pro-immigrant views, they defy easy classification. They could transform either party that welcomes them and their concerns–a model for other US Catholics.”

Then they have a lot of work to do.

When asked which party has more concern for Hispanics, 45% of Latino registered voters identify the Democratic Party as the better party for Hispanics while 12% say the Republican Party is better for Hispanics.

pewhispanic.org/2011/12/28/vii-views-of-the-political-parties-and-party-identification/

 

[jwinch2]

laycatholics.org/2012/09/07/catholic-nun-bears-false-witness-against-catholic-bishops-at-democratic-national-convention-video/

catholicworldreport.com/Item/1569/ending_the_usccbs_path_to_progressive_politics.aspx

The first article highlights why getting committees within the USCCB and the Vatican for that matter under control is so important. They allow people to make false claims for political purposes and create confusion among the faithful. The bishops need, absolutely need, to get their house in order on this issue.

The first article also highlights the importance of the ongoing situation between the LCWR and the Vatican and why groups of women religious need to get their house in order as well.

The second article talks about someone leaving the USCCB but adds some information as to how these things happen in the first place.

Peace,

 

[KSU]

Great links, Jason. Not that the facts therein come as any surprise to folks like you and me, but it’s good to see other, more credibly situated Catholics finally joining in exposing the decades-old disgrace within the staff of the USCCB.

Many years ago, I wrote a respectful, fact-filled letter to the then president of the USCCB asking why John Carr was allowed to give talks supporting Democrat Party policies when such policies did not comport with Church teaching. I asked that I please be given the courtesy of a reply, but not from John Carr.

No reply was ever made to me, and Carr never was made to tone-down his Democrat Party policy support.

You say, Jason, that “The bishops need, absolutely need, to get their house in order on this issue.” I say that the majority of our bishops believe their house IS in order. They are not stupid, disinterested people letting the staff walk all over them. To the contrary, they are very intelligent and dedicated people who believe that the John Carrs of the world are doing work the Church itself can’t officially be seen doing. Granted, lately some bishops have dropped all pretense of political objectivity and have been pushing the envelope–which is why this thread exits.

We can only pray that the Vatican, which is watching, will take in-house action, and that, if that doesn’t work, will take public action a la the LCWR.

 

[jwinch2]

Great links, Jason. Not that the facts therein come as any surprise to folks like you and me, but it’s good to see other, more credibly situated Catholics finally joining in exposing the decades-old disgrace within the staff of the USCCB.

Many years ago, I wrote a respectful, fact-filled letter to the then president of the USCCB asking why John Carr was allowed to give talks supporting Democrat Party policies when such policies did not comport with Church teaching. I asked that I please be given the courtesy of a reply, but not from John Carr.

No reply was ever made to me, and Carr never was made to tone-down his Democrat Party policy support.

You say, Jason, that “The bishops need, absolutely need, to get their house in order on this issue.” I say that the majority of our bishops believe their house IS in order. They are not stupid, disinterested people letting the staff walk all over them. To the contrary, they are very intelligent and dedicated people who believe that the John Carrs of the world are doing work the Church itself can’t officially be seen doing. Granted, lately some bishops have dropped all pretense of political objectivity and have been pushing the envelope–which is why this thread exits.

We can only pray that the Vatican, which is watching, will take in-house action, and that, if that doesn’t work, will take public action a la the LCWR.

I believe that the Vatican has been taking action, primarily in the manner in which appointments to the Episcopate are being made. From what I can tell, it is the primarily the bishops which have been elevated during the the pontificate of our current Holy Father that have been speaking out against these types of things. May God grace us with the blessing of having Pope Benedict around in sound mind and body for many years to come.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I believe that the Vatican has been taking action, primarily in the manner in which appointments to the Episcopate are being made. From what I can tell, it is the primarily the bishops which have been elevated during the the pontificate of our current Holy Father that have been speaking out against these types of things. May God grace us with the blessing of having Pope Benedict around in sound mind and body for many years to come.

This might be slightly off topic but to me it seems like His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI has had less patience with modernism than the Blessed Pope John Paul II. But maybe it’s because it is more of a problem now than it was when JPII was pope.

 

[KSU]

Amen, Jason.

 

[april32010]

“Latino Catholics provide some hope,” he adds. “With strong pro-life, pro-family sensibilities and pro-poor and pro-immigrant views, they defy easy classification. They could transform either party that welcomes them and their concerns–a model for other US Catholics.”

Then they have a lot of work to do.

When asked which party has more concern for Hispanics, 45% of Latino registered voters identify the Democratic Party as the better party for Hispanics while 12% say the Republican Party is better for Hispanics.

pewhispanic.org/2011/12/28/vii-views-of-the-political-parties-and-party-identification/

the problem with using that poll is the assumption that the hispanics polled are Catholic and the ones that are ,are faithful .from what i have observed there is no difference in the hispanic Catholic community and the Catholic community at large in that both are predominantly culturally Catholic.

 

[KSU]

This might be slightly off topic but to me it seems like His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI has had less patience with modernism than the Blessed Pope John Paul II. But maybe it’s because it is more of a problem now than it was when JPII was pope.

JP II was a more trusting soul, and he paid dearly for it. By the time he got angry, it was too late for some things but he took corrective action.

 

[jwinch2]

This might be slightly off topic but to me it seems like His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI has had less patience with modernism than the Blessed Pope John Paul II. But maybe it’s because it is more of a problem now than it was when JPII was pope.

I think there has been more time to see the fruit of such actions and positions. Plus, since Pope Benedict was one of the theologians working at Vatican II, he has unique insight into what was actually supposed to take place afterwards.

Peace,

 

[KSU]

Q&A WITH ARCHBISHOP CHARLES CHAPUT:

What about the wing of the church that says a party that supports the Ryan budget also ought to cause concern?

Jesus tells us very clearly that if we don’t help the poor, we’re going to go to hell. Period. There’s just no doubt about it. That has to be a foundational concern of Catholics and of all Christians. But Jesus didn’t say the government has to take care of them, or that we have to pay taxes to take care of them. Those are prudential judgments. Anybody who would condemn someone because of their position on taxes is making a leap that I can’t make as a Catholic. … You can’t say that somebody’s not Christian because they want to limit taxation. Again, I’m speaking only for myself, but I think that’s a legitimate position. It may not be the correct one, but it’s certainly a legitimate Catholic position; and to say that it’s somehow intrinsically evil like abortion doesn’t make any sense at all.

That said, do you find the Ryan budget troubling?

The Ryan budget isn’t the budget I would write. I think he’s trying to deal with the same issue in the government I’m dealing with here locally, which is spending more than we bring in. I admire the courage of anyone who’s actually trying to solve the problems rather than paper over them. I think a vigorous debate about the issues, rather than the personalities, is the way through this problem. It’s immoral for us to continue to spend money we don’t have. I think that those persons who don’t want to deal with the issue are, in some ways, doing wrong by putting it off for their own political protection or the protection of their party.

ncronline.org/news/faith-parish/chaput-philly-swims-against-nostalgia-and-red-ink