Bishop decries 'combative tactics' of a minority of U.S. bishops

[Maranatha]

When he was asked if there were other bishops who agreed with him, Archbishop Sheehan replied, “Of course, the majority.” :clapping::clapping:

When the Archbishop said that the majority of US Bishops agree with him, I believe he meant that a majority believe the matter should have been taken up privately. He did not say that a majority of Bishops agree that Obama should have been given an honorary degree at a Catholic institution. It would seem that he is correct that a majority of Bishops have decided to take up the public matter privately since they did not speak out. It is not correct to say that most of the Bishops supported the action of the University.
The article further said::

According to reports from NCR’s John Allen at the time, some bishops said privately that they were appalled at the conduct of the most vocal opponents and others said the debate had become too narrow and partisan, but the issue was never brought up in public session.

Although some of the Bishops were appalled at the spectacle we should look at the reason the spectacle was there in the first place. It seems to be the reason it occurred at all was the undermining of Catholic teaching by some Catholic Universities in general and Fighting Irish University in particular.

 

[edwest2]

It is not reasonable to use inflammatory words like “hate” and “contempt” to describe posts on this thread. This is a serious matter regarding clear Church teaching. Bishop D’Arcy is approaching this issue in a clear, thoughtful manner and is asking those at the University to thoughtfully consider what they did.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Coleski]

You hear these things said so often. We need to bring people together. We need to dialogue with those who disagree with us. Do we? The truth of our faith is in the Gospels and in the Catholic doctrine derived directly from them. You do not need to dialogue and debate with those immersed in the world and the god of this world. That is not the purpose of the Church. If you do, you will only slide along the left handed path and end up rejecting your faith for what you confuse with enlightenment.

 

[Joe_5859]

You hear these things said so often. We need to bring people together. We need to dialogue with those who disagree with us. Do we? The truth of our faith is in the Gospels and in the Catholic doctrine derived directly from them. You do not need to dialogue and debate with those immersed in the world and the god of this world. That is not the purpose of the Church. If you do, you will only slide along the left handed path and end up rejecting your faith for what you confuse with enlightenment.

I get what you’re saying, but the Church “exists in order to evangelize” ( 14Evangelii Nuntiandi). Part of winning people over to the faith includes respectful conversation. Certainly we don’t want to soft-peddle the truth, but people are more willing to hear what we have to say if we first listen to what they have to say in a non-combative manner.

I agree that some people take the dialogue thing too far to the point where “all voices are equal”, but I don’t think that negates the proper use of dialogue.

 

[Shin]

The Archibishop and the heretical paper have got their talking points and propaganda perfectly standardized as per the norm, I see.

 

[LRThunder]

Not true. The University of Notre Dame answers to the Congregation of the Holy Cross, not to the bishop of the diocese in which they are located. Therefore, all the bishops of the United States count equally in this case, because none of them have special authority over Notre Dame.

Actually, while the bishop of that diocese may not be the superior to the priests at Notre Dame, he’s still the local ordinary and can give or refuse to give permission to celebrate Mass in public there.

 

[LRThunder]

I’m done with this thread. The pure hatred for the University of Notre Dame, and the contempt for the religiosity of every priest there is dripping of the page. Its disgusting.

We don’t have contempt for the university just because it’s Notre Dame (unless some here are Boston College fans). We have contempt for their continuous thumbing their noses at Church teaching.

 

[Coleski]

I have never bothered with dialogue. When I have, I have found it futile. You don’t convert people regardless of whether you are respectful or vociferously defend your position. Faith is something people come to on their own accord. This thread has one young man who has Ted Kennedy on his mind, even though Ted Kennedy is not the topic of the thread. He condemns the dialogue as dripping with hatred, etc. Standard buzz words for a university history major who has discovered that he is an oppressed minority because of some learning disability that Saint Ted allowed entry into the hallowed halls with the ADA legislation. The kid probably had unlimited time to take his SATs. There he learns about those evil conservative Catholics and Fundy Protestants who are the root of all evil. Sarah Palin is really the Devil because she gave birth to her Down’s syndrome baby and had the gall to hold the child at the Republican National Convention. Could I talk rationally with this young man? Probably not. Once you know you are a victim, you are among the chosen in the hallowed halls. This dialogue to me is pure poison. It ends in the endorsement of everything. I just read in the LA Times that a main branch of the Lutheran Church has endorsed noncelibate gay clergy. The Bible condemns Sodomy, but so what. The Bible is not enlightened but free thinking human intellect is. My point is that this dialogue leads to endorsement of Sodomy and Abortion and ends in atheistic nihilism. Two causes that that great Catholic champion of human rights, Saint Ted endorsed where abortion and sodomy. This life is short. Ted like all of us will face our maker whether we are buried at Arlington National Cemetery or not.

 

[pnewton]

I’m done with this thread. The pure hatred for the University of Notre Dame, and the contempt for the religiosity of every priest there is dripping of the page. Its disgusting.

Catholics here pretty much all agree that aboriton is a grave evil. In America, it is our greatest evil. Therefore, we simply do not understand why Catholics continue to defy the Church on this topic.

 

[JimG]

I heard a priest, perhaps Fr. Corapi, on EWTN radio in the car yesterday. He was saying that abortion will result in the destruction of the nation. This is a thought which I have also had; that the ship of state will founder and break apart because of a million abortions per year. Consequently I can’t get too overwrought about Bishop D’Arcy being critical of Notre Dame’s giving honor to the most pro-abortion president in history. If anything, he and all the bishops should have been even more outspoken.

 

[Shin]

I heard a priest, perhaps Fr. Corapi, on EWTN radio in the car yesterday. He was saying that abortion will result in the destruction of the nation. This is a thought which I have also had; that the ship of state will founder and break apart because of a million abortions per year. Consequently I can’t get too overwrought about Bishop D’Arcy being critical of Notre Dame’s giving honor to the most pro-abortion president in history. If anything, he and all the bishops should have been even more outspoken.

Yes, there is such a thing as a sin of omission.

Reminscent of England truly. . before and after the Anglicans. Lack of courage is a severe problem.

 

[Adonis33]

I’m done with this thread. The pure hatred for the University of Notre Dame, and the contempt for the religiosity of every priest there is dripping of the page. Its disgusting.

Huh??? What hatred?

 

[mlchance]

Huh??? What hatred?

Disagreeing with President Obama’s supporters equals hate. If you think that expressing that disagreement is okay, you’re really a Nazi, a racist, and/or mentally deficient, to use just a few of the terms bandied about by Democratic Party leaders.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Corki]

Disagreeing with President Obama’s supporters equals hate. If you think that expressing that disagreement is okay, you’re really a Nazi, a racist, and/or mentally deficient, to use just a few of the terms bandied about by Democratic Party leaders.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[RobbyS]

I’m done with this thread. The pure hatred for the University of Notre Dame, and the contempt for the religiosity of every priest there is dripping of the page. Its disgusting.

You assume that if Kennedy had not been in the Senate, it would not have happened. That is debatable. And after he did in July, 1969, he did not deserve to be elected dogcatcher.

 

[RobbyS]

Are we reading the same thread? I don’t think I would classify any post on this thread as “dripping” with “pure hatred”.

You brought up a point to which there is some truth: that Notre Dame is not run by the Diocese of Fort Worth, nor by diocesan priests. Others pointed out that, even though this is a case, they still have certain obligations to the bishop of the diocese (for example, they need to have the bishop’s permission to be there, they need to follow the liturgical guidelines the local bishop sets forth, etc.)

It is probably true that Notre Dame is not required to clear it through the bishop before they pass out honorary degrees. But it does seem like it would be proper etiquette to run it by him in situations like this that are so potentially polarizing.

What the archbishop does not wish to see is how the Church has been divided on the issue of abortion. Theologians such as Drinan, who was evidently a mentor of Kennedy and other Catholic pols, had more claims to the loyalty of many Catholics than the popes. What I cannot buy is that it is worse to cause a fuss than to tolerate a criminally unjust law. Drinan’s argument, absent the sophistry, boils down to this: the powerful of this country have decided to impose the rule of abortion on demand, and if the Church does not wish to be barred from a seat at the political table, we should accept their decision.

 

[Tigg]

And I said that I think we don’t want to isolate ourselves from the rest of America **by our strong views on abortion **and the other things. We need to be building bridges, not burning them.” (Sheehan)

Just re-read the article and I missed this the first time around. I’m speechless that a Shepherd of the flock who should be defending the Faith in its entirety, and most especially on this issue in particular, should make a public statement like this! An infallible Church teaching on morality is a “strong view?”

 

[edwest2]

Catholics here pretty much all agree that aboriton is a grave evil. In America, it is our greatest evil. Therefore, we simply do not understand why Catholics continue to defy the Church on this topic.

I think we should learn why. The niece of the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. was told it was “just a blob of tissue.” She has since regretted her decision and later realized that the blob of tissue remark did not reflect the full gravity of the situation.

Too many rest their faith on the “it’s legal and therefore, permissable” argument. Besides, it’s just a blob of tissue. What would you say to an expert who told you a human embryo is not a human being?

Peace,
Ed

 

[mlchance]

What would you say to an expert who told you a human embryo is not a human being?

Ask to see the results of the routine being smear test that confirms the assertion.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[pnewton]

I think we should learn why. The niece of the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. was told it was “just a blob of tissue.” She has since regretted her decision and later realized that the blob of tissue remark did not reflect the full gravity of the situation.

Too many rest their faith on the “it’s legal and therefore, permissable” argument. Besides, it’s just a blob of tissue. What would you say to an expert who told you a human embryo is not a human being?

None of that should matter. Catholics simply do no need to be listening to the niece of the late Reverend King or experts that sell their soul for their scholarship.

We listen to the Church alone on moral issues. The postition of the Catholic Church is consistent and sure.