Bishop Felley: "I think we'll get an Agreement"

[mommyof4]

Wasn’t St. Joan of Arc excommunicated at the time of her death? I don’t know for sure. This is what I found on one web site:

Through her unfamiliarity with the technicalities of theology, Joan was trapped into making a few damaging statements. When she refused to retract the assertion that it was the saints of God who had commanded her to do what she had done, she was condemned to death as a heretic, sorceress, and adulteress, and burned at the stake on May 30, 1431. She was nineteen years old. Some thirty years later, she was exonerated of all guilt and she was ultimately canonized in 1920, making official what the people had known for centuries. Her feast day is May 30

I’m just guessing that anyone who was condemned as a heretic, sorceress, aand adulteress would be excommunicated, too. Anyone know?

 

[Brenda4God]

Is there anything new coming out abiout this? i don’t see anything new. They said any day, didn’t they?

 

[Dr.Bombay]

I think you’re mistaken. He won’t give them whatever they want. You won’t see a repudiation of any part of VII, though you may see a clarification of what it means. You won’t see a radical diminishment of collegiality (the document coming out reputedly allows a bishop to continue to refuse the TLM if he puts it into writing). You aren’t going to see a lot of things that the SSPX want. And they aren’t going to get it, because the giving of it only teaches the lesson many parents already know (and the pope is too smart not to know it as well): if your child throws a fit in the supermarket because he wants a candy bar and you give in, then you’ve set yourself up for another fit and another and another.

The kid in the supermarket doesn’t have the power to validly ordain new parents who will give him a candy bar or anything else his old parents won’t.

And this alleged document has nothing to do with the SSPX anyway, or I miss my guess.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

And by the way, Kirk. If the SSPX don’t get what they want, then the Holy Father won’t get what he wants either.

You see, the SSPX doesn’t “need” canonical regularization or anything else, really. They’ve got apostolic succession. They can continue to ordain priests and, if necessary, bishops. Their churches are full to overflowing. As are their seminaries. And they’ve got money. Lots and lots of money.

Further, they are patient. And they aren’t fools. Quite level headed chaps for the most part, actually.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

And by the way, Kirk. If the SSPX don’t get what they want, then the Holy Father won’t get what he wants either.

You see, the SSPX doesn’t “need” canonical regularization or anything else, really. They’ve got apostolic succession. They can continue to ordain priests and, if necessary, bishops. Their churches are full to overflowing. As are their seminaries. And they’ve got money. Lots and lots of money.

Further, they are patient. And they aren’t fools. Quite level headed chaps for the most part, actually.

I stipulate to the fact that they have apostolic succession, ie, I’m not disagreeing with that. I DO disagree with the churches being full to overflowing. These links here, one where I lived and one where I use to live, don’t seem all that overflowing compared to the Roman Catholic around them:

According to the SSPX’s own site Vegas has 50 “faithfully” attending: sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/las_vegas_nv.htm

Albuquerque has only 180 to 200. Catholics make up the largest relgious body in the state and they can only pull down 180-200 people?:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/albuquerque_nm.htm

I note that in Bakersfield, California, they count about 50 “faithful.” Why don’t we go through each chapel that maintains a website and SEE how overflowing their chapels are?

 

[MyPhilomena]

the SSPX chapel where i live has over 300 parishioners, and that church is so packed all the time that people sit wherever they can and some even stand outside. this church is packed for both Masses.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

(continued)

Why don’t we go through each chapel that maintains a website and SEE how overflowing their chapels are?

Ft. Myers, FL=110-140:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/ft_myers_fl.htm

In Nicville-Potsdam, they state that attendance peaked in 2000 at 170. If it peaked at that THEN, what do you reckon it is now?

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/nicholville_ny.htm

This Raleigh suburb only mentions that in the early 90’s, the attendance maxed out at around 90 people. But maybe they’re swamped now:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/raleigh_nc.htm

150 “faithful” attend in Charlotte:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/charlotte_nc.htm

They’re busting at the seams with 200 in Cleveland:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/cleveland_oh.htm

But Pittsburgh is ALSO overflowing with 200:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/pittsburgh_pa.htm

Only 50-70 in Norfolk, VA, though:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/norfolk_va.htm

Mind you, the SSPX didn’t put demographic information on every site, but if you add these up, they exceed the attendance at one, but not two, of my parish’s Sunday masses.

Doc, they’re not overflowing. Money they may have, but c’mon, Holy Mother Church ain’t broke.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

the SSPX chapel where i live has over 300 parishioners, and that church is so packed all the time that people sit wherever they can and some even stand outside. this church is packed for both Masses.

You wouldn’t care to provide a link to their website, would you?

 

[MyPhilomena]

sspx.ca , sspx.org and sspx.com

 

[MyPhilomena]

good night all, and be nice

 

[JKirkLVNV]

sspx.ca , sspx.org and sspx.com

You know, Philomena, I’m looking at the SSPX Canada site, and in a few of the spots where they talk about numbers, they say thing like “200 faithful.” That’s not all that many.

 

[Lorarose]

Fellay envisages the SSPX would be an independent group within the Church, free of control by local bishops, while it continued to advocate rolling back other Vatican II reforms.

“We would be a bit like the Chinese Patriotic Church, in the Church without really being there,” he explained. “There could be a relationship between Rome and us, but it would not yet be a juridical relationship.”

This is typical more-of-the-same garbage.
Fellay can “envisage” whatever he wants…it just isn’t going to happen the way he wants it to.
Reconciliation is impossible under Fellay’s fantasy terms.
He isn’t the pope and until I see something coming from Rome I’m not going to believe a word of it.

 

[Sir_Catholic]

It seems that you can’t start a thread with the word “SSPX” in it without it being hijacked. Or a thread about the Latin Mass.

 

[Sir_Catholic]

Is there anything new coming out abiout this? i don’t see anything new. They said any day, didn’t they?

The article didn’t say that an agreement would happen any day. It said that Bishop Fellay was optomistic that it could happen and that it could possibly happen sooner than it seems.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

The article didn’t say that an agreement would happen any day. It said that Bishop Fellay was optomistic that it could happen and that it could possibly happen sooner than it seems.

Unfortunately, he’s optimistic instead of penitent. I think that’s what concerns some of us. If he was penitent, he’d have no problem over which to be optimistic about. If he was penitent, he wouldn’t be schismatic and excommunicated.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The only excommunicates are the four SSPX bishops, Archbishop Lefebvre and Bishop de Castro Mayer. The people who attend SSPX Masses are not excommunicated nor can you point to any statement by the Church that excommunicates them.

Unless you have the misfortune of living in Lincoln which, thankfully, I do not.

Here is what the Papal decree Ecclesia Dei by John Paul II says:
3 … … Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.

5c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.
Its right there in the document, the ex-comm isnt limited to a Bishop or two, it explicitly lists Fellay and anyother who joins them. Like I said above, its wrong to gamble with your salvation, and people who consider themselves true Catholics should “cease support” as soon as possible.

The kid in the supermarket doesn’t have the power to validly ordain new parents who will give him a candy bar or anything else his old parents won’t.

Your missing the point, the fact is once anyone reaches the statge of Bishop they can use the same tactics if Rome is just going to bow down to them. With this logic the fastest way for Rome to bow down to sspx demands is if Fellay threatens to go around ordianing 100 individuals if the Pope doesnt obey Fellay

 

[Dr.Bombay]

(continued)

Why don’t we go through each chapel that maintains a website and SEE how overflowing their chapels are?

Ft. Myers, FL=110-140:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/ft_myers_fl.htm

In Nicville-Potsdam, they state that attendance peaked in 2000 at 170. If it peaked at that THEN, what do you reckon it is now?

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/nicholville_ny.htm

This Raleigh suburb only mentions that in the early 90’s, the attendance maxed out at around 90 people. But maybe they’re swamped now:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/raleigh_nc.htm

150 “faithful” attend in Charlotte:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/charlotte_nc.htm

They’re busting at the seams with 200 in Cleveland:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/cleveland_oh.htm

But Pittsburgh is ALSO overflowing with 200:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/pittsburgh_pa.htm

Only 50-70 in Norfolk, VA, though:

sspx.org/Chapels_Pages/norfolk_va.htm

Mind you, the SSPX didn’t put demographic information on every site, but if you add these up, they exceed the attendance at one, but not two, of my parish’s Sunday masses.

Doc, they’re not overflowing. Money they may have, but c’mon, Holy Mother Church ain’t broke.

My, you certainly put a lot of time and effort into research, didn’t you Kirk?

If 200 people are attending Mass in a chapel built for 150, what does that make it? Their chapels are overflowing. Like I said.

And if by Holy Mother Church, you mean the Holy See, perhaps you need to have a word with the Pope’s accountant. They’re running in the red. Or ask Portland. Or Boston.

But then, the chickens eventually come home to roost don’t they? Wonder how many pervert priests the SSPX has had to hide, hmmmm? Go ahead. Google. You might find one if you’re “feeling lucky.”

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Here is what the Papal decree Ecclesia Dei by John Paul II says:3 … … Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.

5c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.
Its right there in the document, the ex-comm isnt limited to a Bishop or two, it explicitly lists Fellay and anyother who joins them. Like I said above, its wrong to gamble with your salvation, and people who consider themselves true Catholics should “cease support” as soon as possible.

Right. Just what I said. The faithful in the pews are not excommunicated.

Your missing the point, the fact is once anyone reaches the statge of Bishop they can use the same tactics if Rome is just going to bow down to them. With this logic the fastest way for Rome to bow down to sspx demands is if Fellay threatens to go around ordianing 100 individuals if the Pope doesnt obey Fellay

From your lips to God’s ears…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

My, you certainly put a lot of time and effort into research, didn’t you Kirk?

If 200 people are attending Mass in a chapel built for 150, what does that make it? Their chapels are overflowing. Like I said.

And if by Holy Mother Church, you mean the Holy See, perhaps you need to have a word with the Pope’s accountant. They’re running in the red. Or ask Portland. Or Boston.

But then, the chickens eventually come home to roost don’t they? Wonder how many pervert priests the SSPX has had to hide, hmmmm? Go ahead. Google. You might find one if you’re “feeling lucky.”

LOL, you google it, you know they’ve had some, so who KNOWS how many they’re hiding? Check out Sean MacLaughlin’s page (an SSPXer who came back to the Church, he posts on these forums). If they’re hiding them, then they’re by definition HIDDEN and we don’t know about them, anymore than we knew about our own predators, until it BECAME known. I freely admit our bishops have hidden wicked perverts. That’s not the whole of the Church or even the whole of the hierarchy. I wouldn’t paint the whole Society with the broad brush of condemnation simply because one of their former priests tried to whack the Holy Father, the King of Belgium, and the King of Spain.

In terms of sheer numbers, they aren’t overflowing. In fact, I’m starting to wonder where people are getting the number of “1,000, 000 adherents world-wide.”

 

[Dr.Bombay]

The correct number is 120,000,000.

That’s 10% of 1.2 billion, by the way.