Bishop Hubbard approves free distribution of needles to drug abusers [CWN]

[Beau_Ouiville]

A quote from the Timesunion.com article (see post #2)

*In 1988, despite opposition from a local community misinformed and fearful of AIDS, then a relatively little-known disease, Joyce opened the Farano Center in a house in Pine Hills. The facility, staffed by Catholic Charities’ staff and volunteers, opened to care for orphaned HIV-infected babies, often abandoned at New York City hospitals by drug-addicted mothers. *

It looks like this nun has slid down a social slippery slope since she first started taking care of HIV orphans in 1988. When a person gets heavily involved in the HIV activist community it can easily happen - everyone with HIV becomes an innocent victim.

She sounds like Father Damian to me. No one here is saying that addicts are innocent victims. No one there is promoting drug use.

 

[Stylites]

Questioning the morality of a needle exchange program for drug addicts implies there is a moral choice which drug addicts make after they become addicted to a drug.

Catholic moral theology teaches that three conditions have to be present for a sin to occur:

1. 
   *]Know it’s a sin.
   *]Will to do the sin.
   *]Do the sin.
   
   People who are addicted to a substance are often not in full control of their faculties, including their will.
   
   .

 

[Timothysis]

Everything is a “Catholic issue” to Catholics. This is disgusting & follows the mind set re passing out condoms to prevent a disease caused by promiscuity. That’s like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

I did not see where anyone advocated "passing out condoms to prevent a disease caused by promiscuity."

They are trying to help people addicted to drugs stay free from disease. I think this mindset is one of charity…you know, love of neighbor?

Being addicted to a drug is not a sin but being sexually promiscuous is; there is a huge difference.

 

[Stylites]

I did not see where anyone advocated "passing out condoms to prevent a disease caused by promiscuity."

They are trying to help people addicted to drugs stay free from disease. I think this mindset is one of charity…you know, love of neighbor?

Being addicted to a drug is not a sin but being sexually promiscuous is; there is a huge difference.

Well written, Timothysis.

 

[Nec5]

What a marvelous idea. Continue feeding and encouraging the addiction, but alleviate one of the negative side effects. Because actually helping the people involved would be too much work.

 

[momor]

Being addicted to a drug is not a sin but being sexually promiscuous is; there is a huge difference.

Being an addict (which is considered a lifelong condition) is not a sin as long as one is not using a substance addictively. Being in the throes of using a substance addictively may mitigate one’s culpability but it is always sinful and a person is always obligated to do whatever they can to stop.

 

[white_sheep]

But that don’t mean I’m wrong, does it?

Our war on drugs has failed. People are going to inject illegal drugs. Making sure they have clean needles available not only holds down the infection rate in the illegal user community but society at large also. That’s how it differs from the boxing glove comparison.

Your logic is faulty. Our war on adultery has failed. Our war on birth control has failed. Our war on adultery has failed. Does that mean that Church teaching should change on these issues? The war on drugs was an American political strategy, it has nothing to do with the Church.

 

[H_Opey]

These people have choices just like everyone else.
Some of these drugs are extremely addictive but the choice is still there.
I do not believe that all sin is removed when these people use drugs.

I am especially concerned because what is not considered is that some of these people go on to commit violent crimes and although that needle may have kept them from contracting AIDS, there are now more victims.

Also absent is the fact there is something bigger than their addiction, and that is God. That is also what Catholic Charities should be focused on. Because we can do only so much and God does the rest.

Giving these people free needles with the purpose of using them for drug use, sends many mixed signals and it is false compassion in my opinion.

It takes someone with a lot of courage and faith to say, No, I am not giving you any needles nor am I giving you any condoms - but I will take you to a place that is clean and to help you overcome this if you want to. But you have a CHOICE.

The stats could very well be in favor of the CC regarding reducing AIDS, but how are they going to answer to the innocent victims? We kept them AIDS free so although they raped you and stole your money and identity, look on the bright side, you won’t have AIDS?

Or, you saved them from AIDS but you never brought them to Christ.

 

[jpy15026]

…

 

[Stylites]

These people have choices just like everyone else.
Some of these drugs are extremely addictive but the choice is still there.
I do not believe that all sin is removed when these people use drugs.

While the initial use of a drug includes free will, after an addiction sets in that may not be the case. We’ve tried the penitentiary treatment against addicts for 60 years without much success - let’s try to treat this as a disease instead of a moral failure.

I am especially concerned because what is not considered is that some of these people go on to commit violent crimes and although that needle may have kept them from contracting AIDS, there are now more victims.

. . .

The stats could very well be in favor of the CC regarding reducing AIDS, but how are they going to answer to the innocent victims? We kept them AIDS free so although they raped you and stole your money and identity, look on the bright side, you won’t have AIDS?

Sorry, but I’m not following what you’re trying to say here about HIV prevention and ‘more victims’, as if it’s somehow better that people die of a disease lest they live longer and possibly victimize people in violent crimes? I hope that I am misreading your statement, because otherwise it would be a grave injustice and a sin against hope.

.

 

[H_Opey]

While the initial use of a drug includes free will, after an addiction sets in that may not be the case. We’ve tried the penitentiary treatment against addicts for 60 years without much success - let’s try to treat this as a disease instead of a moral failure.

From the article:
Even earlier, the bishops of the United States of America affirmed in their 1987 statement: “abstinence outside of marriage and fidelity within marriage as well as the avoidance of intravenous drug abuse are the only morally correct and medically sure ways to prevent the spread of AIDS” …

Also, there is nothing wrong with reminding people that they have a choice in the matter. That gives them back the power to do something - in this case they probably will need assistance.

.

Sorry, but I’m not following what you’re trying to say here about HIV prevention and ‘more victims’, as if it’s somehow better that people die of a disease lest they live longer and possibly victimize people in violent crimes? I hope that I am misreading your statement, because otherwise it would be a grave injustice and a sin against hope.

.

The whole idea of giving out needles by Catholic Charities is absurd.
No, I am not saying it would be better to have more victims to HIV than violent crimes, just that this is not going to cure anything and does not seem compatible with what we teach.

 

[Stylites]

No, I am not saying it would be better to have more victims to HIV than violent crimes, just that this is not going to cure anything and does not seem compatible with what we teach.

Sorry, but your clarification didn’t help much to clear up the matter of your earlier statement regarding violent crime victims. Have a nice day.

.

 

[H_Opey]

Illicit drug users are 9 times more likely to be arrested on assault charges than non drug users.

16 times more to be arrested on larceny or theft.

The facts are there regarding a connection between violent crimes/illicit drug use.

You can do a search and find this out. This is part of the drug problem.

I hope you have a nice day too.

 

[H_Opey]

Here is a link to an article I thought was appropriate.
“Safe Injection Sites” and Tackling IV Drug Abuse
FATHER TADEUSZ PACHOLCZYK, PH.D.

While drug addiction certainly puts a major dent in human freedom, it would be false to conclude that an addict can’t make choices. The only reason there is any hope left for an addict is because he still has a small and diminishing space of freedom that he can act on, allowing him to decide whether or not to begin a new journey. He can choose to take the first step along the road leading away from addiction towards rehabilitation. Our public strategy for dealing with drug addiction must always show great sensitivity towards that tiny space of freedom that remains in each individual struggling with addiction. After all, it is precisely this freedom that sets us apart from our animal counterparts. Public policy should not contribute to shrinking that space of freedom even further through approaches that enable destructive behaviors and greater addiction.
…

This contradiction may be seen very clearly in what our society has learned about treating alcoholism. Most of us have seen – even among our families and neighbors – how destructive the addiction to alcohol can be. Not only can it ravage a person’s life, but it can also destroy their family, lead to loss of employment, and, even, in some cases, endanger the lives of others through drunken fits or drunken driving. We’ve also seen how many alcoholics have been helped by twelve step programs like Alcoholics Anonymous, where the accumulated wisdom of millions of former addicts recognizes clearly that the only way they can conquer their addiction is through supporting each other never to have another drink. Imagine that, instead of supporting programs like AA and alcoholic rehabilitation centers, a government were to establish bars where alcoholics could come to get drunk, by providing clean glasses, furniture and bathrooms, healthy hors d’oeuvres and munchies, and police protection so that they couldn’t be robbed in dark alleys. Would any of us really think that this would be promoting their rehabilitation? Those who struggle with substance abuse are deserving of public policy initiatives that rehabilitate rather than enable the addicted individual.

 

[Tigg]

O Shepherds of Israel…where have you gone?

 

[Stylites]

Illicit drug users are 9 times more likely to be arrested on assault charges than non drug users.

16 times more to be arrested on larceny or theft.

The facts are there regarding a connection between violent crimes/illicit drug use.

You can do a search and find this out. This is part of the drug problem.

I hope you have a nice day too.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I still don’t see how helping to curtail a deadly disease somehow contributes to violent crime.

.

 

[Stylites]

Public policy should not contribute to shrinking that space of freedom even further through approaches that enable destructive behaviors and greater addiction.

Good point about enabling addiction. However, I would rather that public policy works to reduce harm at the risk of enabling an addiction, since the results of seeking to enforce a change in behavior via violent societal sanctions ends up doing more harm than good. Where is the ‘freedom’ in an early and painful death? How is it “not contributing to the shrinking space of freedom” to throw addicts in jail?

.

 

[H_Opey]

Well, I am not for throwing them necessarily in jail, but it would depend on the whole circumstance.
But what I would like to see regarding Catholic’s helping are more facilities to help them overcome addiction.

Another appropriate link.
St Vincent’s drug injecting rooms: ‘monumental spiritual blindness’

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

People seem to ignore that this is a needle exchange program. What the sponsors do is lessen the danger in an instrumentality which may be used by an addict.

The program is not designed to enable or assist someone to take drugs.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I’m not sure how this enables the doing of drugs. They already have a needle they can use, its simply a matter of giving them a clean one. I highly doubt a drug addict is going to stay on the drug simply because they can get a clean needle today but if they were stuck with a dirty one would have quit cold turkey.

I would compare needle exchange to a kind of “designated driver’s” cab company. By giving people easy access to a ride home are they encouraging drunkenness or are they merely attempting to mitigate the dangers to society posed by the choices of others?

A condom, on the other hand, is indeed an outright and direct temptation to have immoral sexual contact.