Bishop John Stowe records Pride month message to the LGBT community

[Polak]

What do you make of bishop John Stowe’s Pride month message, in which he criticises the church and its hierarchy for not being as welcoming as he believes it should be, yo the gay community (among other things)?

Should a Catholic bishop even be doing a Pride month message? Other bishops have previously told Catholics to stay away from gay pride parades and not promote such a celebration.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Bishops have different opinions on certain things. I would tend to side with a more inclusive attitude than not. So I didn’t hear anything wrong with what the bishop said nor did I expect to hear anything wrong. Remember the parable of the lost sheep.

I definitely agree that the Church has a legacy problem, not a theological problem, with homosexuality. That’s ironic enough, but throw in the abuse crisis and it all becomes very convoluted. Some bishops reach out to the gay community while other bishops are against doing that in certain forms. This post would probably get deleted if I said why I think there is pushback among some bishops.

I believe the Church has serious problems with sexuality, and those problems are coming to light today. The bishops who are trying to face those problems have a tough road to travel whether it’s with the issue of homosexuality, sexual abuse among clergy, or adultery.

 

[KMC]

The bishops who are trying to face those problems have a tough road to travel whether it’s with the issue of homosexuality, sexual abuse among clergy, or adultery.

I think the wise guideline to follow when reaching out to people on the margins would be that offered by Bishop Charles Chaput: “Truth without compassion wounds and repels; mercy without truth is a comfortable form of lying.”

 

[1Lord1Faith]

I disagree. People on the margins require mercy, as does everyone else. Truth is something people can either accept through faith or come to terms with over time. People on the margins don’t necessarily have faith in the Church’s teachings. They have to come to terms with them over time. Mercy and compassion is required first and foremost. It is a gift, an act of charity from anyone who gives it much like grace is a gift from God. Grace comes first from God. It is only fitting that mercy should come first from one person to another.

 

[StJosephPrayForUs]

On OP questions:I don’t know what to make of his comments on the hierarchy, I’ll take his word on it though. There is nothing wrong with a bishop making a pride month message, it was a very nice message also. I liked it. If your bishop tells you to avoid the celebrations, then avoid them. If one says you can go, you can go or not go. I value the men of God in rank over me and their word locally if it is not telling me to sin.

The worse thing about this video is not even the video, it’s all the hateful comments from Catholics whose status I doubt, promoting false teachings and lies. The video is fine, so-called Catholics acting like this is not fine. Also they are sinning in the comments and pretending to be God and that they have authority they don’t have. May God rebuke them and St. Joseph protect the man of God.

 

[Polak]

Not sure I agree with it being okay for a bishop to throw about the term Pride month, like it’s just an okay thing to take part in. It isn’t. Pride is a celebration of the gay lifestyle. While a priest can of course send a message to gay people, particularly those who consider themselves to be Catholics, I think if he is going to mention Pride month or Pride celebrations in general, he should also point out that they aren’t a good thing.

If your bishop tells you to avoid the celebrations, then avoid them. If one says you can go, you can go or not go.

If a bishop tells you to go to a Pride celebration, then unless he is telling you do do it in order to try and evangelise people and lead them away from this way of life, I don’t think he’s doing a good job.

 

[Mrchatsworth]

What do I make of it? I think it’s awful.

 

[KMC]

I disagree. People on the margins require mercy, as does everyone else. Truth is something people can either accept through faith or come to terms with over time. People on the margins don’t necessarily have faith in the Church’s teachings. They have to come to terms with them over time. Mercy and compassion is required first and foremost. It is a gift, an act of charity from anyone who gives it much like grace is a gift from God. Grace comes first from God. It is only fitting that mercy should come first from one person to another.

Mercy disconnected from the truth IS lying. Bishop Chaput is correct. This does not mean we whack people over the head with the truth, but to imply that a current sinful behavior is acceptable could lead that person to more sin. For example, Fr. James Martin telling a gay man that he hopes in 10 years he’ll be able to kiss his “partner, so to be husband” in Church" (during the sign of peace).

This kind of statement would lead people unsure of Church teaching to possibly sin, or think its acceptable.

 

[c4csp]

I think there is a fine line between bringing the mercy of Jesus to the sick world so He can heal it and what many of these Bishops and Priests are doing when they give their opinion on these matters. All these gay folk are children of God and God loves them as much as anybody. They are welcome in the church but they are sick, they are suffering from a disorder. The truth needs to be spoken so healing from Jesus can take place.

 

[Weserthy]

I guess I’ve just never understood the criticism of the Church not being “welcoming” enough to gay people, as if there are guards at the Church doors before every mass asking everyone if they’re gay before they come in, and then turning away those that are. I don’t know, maybe this happens in some places…

My guess is that those who are making these criticisms are actually referring to incidents, such as, teachers at a Catholic school are fired for being in a gay marriage, or a guy is not allowed to be the godfather of a child because he’s married to another man, etc. I really don’t know what else it would be, as most bishops seem to hardly mention such topics publicly anymore, unless directly provoked by some concrete situation they have to deal with in their diocese. Priests certainly don’t talk about such things in their homilies on a regular basis, at least that I’ve heard. Maybe there are some parishes out there where the priest rants about the evils of homosexuality every other week, but even if there are, I would bet my life that this isn’t the norm by any means.

It’s these kinds of vague criticisms and statements that make faithful Catholics suspicious about what is really meant. Is he suggesting that there shouldn’t be any limits on who can represent the Church in public ministry or act as sponsors, gay marriage or not? Given that others who have stated such things bluntly, like Fr. James Martin (who Bishop Stowe is a big fan of) I’m guessing that’s the crux of what he’s getting at here, or at least a large part of it. But when these types of statements about being more “welcoming” are made, they are usually very short on specifics, for some reason…

 

[Funvod]

Pride is a celebration of the gay lifestyle.

I disagree with this sentiment, and I think @Thorolfr made a pretty good post explaining what Pride is actually about (recognition as a person)

Story: California priest censored, receives venomous responses, death threats, for saying Chtistians should not celebrate pride month Social Justice

Why bother supporting it? It gives a mistaken impression that they are for same sex activity. I’m a gay man and have gone to various Pride events since 1982 and I’m not aware of any official statement that these events are specifically about celebrating “same sex activity.” This might be what these events mean to some gay people, but for others, they might mean something different. Mostly I think that they are an affirmation of the right of LGBT people to be themselves whatever that means to…

This thread is already derailing pretty quickly yikes lol.

 

[Polak]

I disagree with this sentiment, and I think @Thorolfr made a pretty good post explaining what Pride is actually about (recognition as a person)

Please tell me you’re kidding. I’m not suggesting you go, but have you seen what goes on at a lot of them?

Given that others who have stated such things bluntly, like Fr. James Martin (who Bishop Stowe is a big fan of)

Fr. Martin says some things that are patently against Catholic Church teaching. In his ‘Building a Bridge’ book (I haven’t read it but it was so shocking it was even quoted on CNA) he writes that gays aren’t bound to a life of chastity because for a teaching to be authoritative, it is expected that it will be received by the people of God, by the faithful. He then says it hasn’t been received by the LGBT community so basically, isn’t authoritative. That entire statement by Fr. Martin is utter nonsense and it’s one of a multitude of absurd things he has said, completely contrary to the teaching of our Church. @KMC mentioned another, and there are many others.

 

[Funvod]

Please tell me you’re kidding. I’m not suggesting you go, but have you seen what goes on at a lot of them

I’ve been to two. It was basically a rainbow themed block party.
Not really my thing, festive atmospheres make me really anxious, but I’m not joking.
Something tells me you aren’t willing to listen to what I have to say though, so I guess believe what you will.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Mercy disconnected from the truth IS lying. Bishop Chaput is correct.

I don’t know what context Bishop Chaput’s quote is from. But it’s a very generic statement anyway, almost meaningless to any specific circumstance. I certainly don’t see how it applies to the article in the OP.

This kind of statement would lead people unsure of Church teaching to possibly sin, or think its acceptable.

Probably not. I don’t see that happening anywhere, not even here. What I do see here is a lot of fear such as your statement that I quoted.

 

[Genesis315]

The obvious solution is to have Marty Haugen’s “All Are Welcome” be the entrance hymn at every Mass. Clearly we have not sung it enough.

 

[KMC]

perhaps think of the story of Jesus and the adultress.

He showed her mercy…not berating her…not calling her names…not hitting her over the head with the 6th commandment.

He also told her truth: “Go and sin no more.”

Mercy + Truth

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Right. That woman was also caught in the act of sinning.

When a prostitute washed Jesus feet with her hair and tears He didn’t assume she was going to go out to the streets that night. He didn’t say “Go, sin no more”. The Pharisees (or maybe Sadducees) said to themselves “If he only knew the truth about her”. Did He know she was a prostitute?

And the woman at the well. Did Jesus give her a dose of preachin’ about her lifestyle other than to call her out on it? No He didn’t.

Not everyone has to be explicitly told that the Church teaches against sex outside of marriage of a man and woman. Most everyone knows this already just like the women Jesus encountered already knew what they were doing was wrong in the eyes of God.

 

[Polak]

I’ve been to two. It was basically a rainbow themed block party.
Not really my thing, festive atmospheres make me really anxious, but I’m not joking.

Perhaps you went to some more toned down events?

Look, if you want to believe that LGBT Pride events are nothing more than simply celebrating being able to recognise yourself as a gay person, that’s up to you. I think it’s about much more than that.

Let’s say however, just for argument’s sake, that you’re right, and it isn’t about gay marriage or anything like that, it’s just about self-affirmation. Why is that okay? Being gay in itself may not be a sin, but it’s still an unwanted condition, because it means you have urges for something that is unnatural and sinful. That isn’t something that should be promoted and celebrated, is it? It certainly shouldn’t be promoted by Catholic clergy.

 

[KMC]

Not everyone has to be explicitly told that the Church teaches against sex outside of marriage of a man and woman. Most everyone knows this already just like the women Jesus encountered already knew what they were doing was wrong in the eyes of God.

Correct that not everyone has to be explicitly told the Church teaches that sex outside of marriage is a sin. The problem is 1) the media and others certainly push the idea that Pope Francis is changing Church teaching (with their misinterpretation of “Who am I to judge?”), and 2) The Fr. Martin’s of the world hinting they are good to keep doing what they are doing. As Jesus said, “Let what you say be simply ‘yes’ or ‘no’; anything else more than this comes from the evil one.” (Mt 5:37). Which means to be clear. Fr. Martin is NOT clear! (He’s been called out by other priests in this regard).

As it relates to the OP, Bishop Stowe’s endorsement of Gay Pride and the flying of the rainbow flag at a Catholic parish seems to go beyond reaching out to those on the margin.

Mercy + Truth

 

[Polak]

Yes to second @KMC, can we be clear. Jesus did have mercy on sinners when he was on earth. What he didn’t do was tell any of them their sinful ways were fine and that they should continue with such lifestyles. That is the difference.