Bishop: ministry to gay people must include call to chastity

[_Abyssinia]

Bishop Toal pointed out this was expected of all Catholics who are not married

The Bishop of Motherwell has asked his priests to encourage those experiencing same-sex attraction to “lead a chaste life”.

Bishop Joseph Toal issued his statement after a diocesan priest published a Facebook post that was subsequently widely shared. The priest, Fr Paul Morton of St Bride’s Church in Cambuslang, wrote: “We must do everything we can to redress the harm that has been done in the past by the negative stance we seem to have taken up [about gay people].”

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/08/04/bishop-ministry-to-gay-people-must-include-call-to-chastity/

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I agree with this, but unless and until the Church treats all sex outside of marriage with the same tenacity, I think this is going to fall on deaf ears.

It is one thing to say it, doing it is another. I know far too many Catholics who lived together before marriage and then had the big Church wedding and no one batted an eye. But come out as gay, but not in a relationship and you are still a pariah.

Quite honestly, it’s mind-boggling:hypno: to me.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/08/04/bishop-ministry-to-gay-people-must-include-call-to-chastity/

Good for the bishop!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I agree with this, but unless and until the Church treats all sex outside of marriage with the same tenacity, I think this is going to fall on deaf ears.

It is one thing to say it, doing it is another. I know far too many Catholics who lived together before marriage and then had the big Church wedding and no one batted an eye. But come out as gay, but not in a relationship and you are still a pariah.

Quite honestly, it’s mind-boggling:hypno: to me.

^^^This.

 

[Joe_5859]

I agree with this, but unless and until the Church treats all sex outside of marriage with the same tenacity, I think this is going to fall on deaf ears.

It is one thing to say it, doing it is another. I know far too many Catholics who lived together before marriage and then had the big Church wedding and no one batted an eye. But come out as gay, but not in a relationship and you are still a pariah.

Quite honestly, it’s mind-boggling:hypno: to me.

I see this sentiment a lot, but it strikes me as ambiguous and thus impossible to fulfill. What do we mean by the “Church” and what do we mean by having them treated “the same”?

Is there some great disparity between homosexual relations and other types of sex outside marriage in Church documents? In homilies from priests? In statements from bishops?

I mean, I understand that many people experience this on an anecdotal level with Catholics they know. These Catholics perhaps go along with the culture in regards to contraception and pre-marital sex, and yet still retain their objection to same sex activity. But that doesn’t really translate into action by “the Church.”

I know that my experience is not normative, but pretty much every priest or bishop I’ve ever known would be more than happy to affirm that chastity is a virtue that everyone needs to practice regardless of sexual orientation.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I see this sentiment a lot, but it strikes me as ambiguous and thus impossible to fulfill. What do we mean by the “Church” and what do we mean by having them treated “the same”?

Is there some great disparity between homosexual relations and other types of sex outside marriage in Church documents? In homilies from priests? In statements from bishops?

I mean, I understand that many people experience this on an anecdotal level with Catholics they know. These Catholics perhaps go along with the culture in regards to contraception and pre-marital sex, and yet still retain their objection to same sex activity. But that doesn’t really translate into action by "the Church."

I know that my experience is not normative, but pretty much every priest or bishop I’ve ever known would be more than happy to affirm that chastity is a virtue that everyone needs to practice regardless of sexual orientation.

It comes down to whether you see “The Church” as just the official statements and attitudes of those running it, or “The Church” as the collective body of everybody participating which would include all the lay people in the pews and how they act, as well as all the unofficial attitudes of the average priests dealing with people.

There’s a tendency to be tolerant of people having premarital heterosexual sex because there is some hope that this might end up as a valid, Church-approved marriage and frequently it does. When you go to the priest and say “We’d like to get married” he does not give you the third degree about whether you are being chaste with each other in your unmarried life, probably because he wants to encourage you to get married and “make it legal”, not make you upset so you go storming out of his office.

On the other hand, homosexual sex is never going to end up in a relationship approved by the Church so the tendency is to see even the inclination to it as always bad, even if the person is being chaste.

 

[10gr8kids]

It comes down to whether you see “The Church” as just the official statements and attitudes of those running it, or “The Church” as the collective body of everybody participating which would include all the lay people in the pews and how they act, as well as all the unofficial attitudes of the average priests dealing with people.

There’s a tendency to be tolerant of people having premarital heterosexual sex because there is some hope that this might end up as a valid, Church-approved marriage and frequently it does. When you go to the priest and say “We’d like to get married” he does not give you the third degree about whether you are being chaste with each other in your unmarried life, probably because he wants to encourage you to get married and “make it legal”, not make you upset so you go storming out of his office.

On the other hand, homosexual sex is never going to end up in a relationship approved by the Church so the tendency is to see even the inclination to it as always bad, even if the person is being chaste.

The priest at my church will not marry a couple that is living together. At least that is what I’ve heard indirectly. They are required to start living chastely. Of course, some people probably lie about it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The priest at my church will not marry a couple that is living together. At least that is what I’ve heard indirectly. They are required to start living chastely. Of course, some people probably lie about it.

If by some, you mean most, then yes.

 

[MaryT777]

The priest at my church will not marry a couple that is living together. At least that is what I’ve heard indirectly. They are required to start living chastely. Of course, some people probably lie about it.

The priest that my friend had at their wedding asked them directly if they were having sex with each other. They told him the truth and he asked if they would promise to refrain from such until their wedding day.

She said she couldn’t lie to a priest and was glad she told him and it was the best decision they made to follow this priest’s advice.

One interesting way to handle the situation.

Mary.

 

[10gr8kids]

The priest that my friend had at their wedding asked them directly if they were having sex with each other. They told him the truth and he asked if they would promise to refrain from such until their wedding day.

She said she couldn’t lie to a priest and was glad she told him and it was the best decision they made to follow this priest’s advice.

One interesting way to handle the situation.

Mary.

That’s great!!

 

[ToeInTheWater]

The priest that my friend had at their wedding asked them directly if they were having sex with each other. They told him the truth and he asked if they would promise to refrain from such until their wedding day.

She said she couldn’t lie to a priest and was glad she told him and it was the best decision they made to follow this priest’s advice.

Sadly, even if they don’t post here to “say” so, I am sure some people will either (1) assume your friend was lying to you or (2) dismiss her testimony as an outlier.

However, I can think of many testimonies on CAF and elsewhere indicating that it IS possible for people to actually repent of sin and reform their lives.

 

[10gr8kids]

The priest that my friend had at their wedding asked them directly if they were having sex with each other. They told him the truth and he asked if they would promise to refrain from such until their wedding day.

She said she couldn’t lie to a priest and was glad she told him and it was the best decision they made to follow this priest’s advice.

One interesting way to handle the situation.

Mary.

Iit is amazing what God can accomplish through a holy priest! They truly do help sinners turn into saints! We need to pray for our priests; this world is in desperate need of more holy priests.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Iit is amazing what God can accomplish through a holy priest! They truly do help sinners turn into saints! We need to pray for our priests; this world is in desperate need of more holy priests.

I also think many who think chastity is “impractical” and therefore should not be expected of anyone, are totally ignoring the power of God’s grace.

There is also a big difference between struggling with chastity, failing at times, repenting, going to Confession, etc… and not even trying in the first place.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The priest at my church will not marry a couple that is living together. At least that is what I’ve heard indirectly. They are required to start living chastely. Of course, some people probably lie about it.

We were not asked about our living arrangements or if we were having sex. At all. Didn’t even come up.

 

[10gr8kids]

I also think many who think chastity is “impractical” and therefore should not be expected of anyone, are totally ignoring the power of God’s grace.

There is also a big difference between struggling with chastity, failing at times, repenting, going to Confession, etc… and not even trying in the first place.

Exactly!

 

[ToeInTheWater]

One reason I have noticed for “double standards” regarding gay people, is that many Catholics approach the issue through a Culture War mindset, in which all gays are the Enemy who support the Gay Agenda and are out to persecute Christians.

Indeed, I’m surprised no one has stated yet in this topic, is that “There are no fornication pride parades, no contraceptor support clubs in schools, no divorced and remarried people demanding Christians bake them wedding cakes or be sued to oblivion”.

So, they look at suspicion on anyone who identifies as “gay” as they suspect even the “chaste gays” are guilty of collaborating with the Gay Agenda.

 

[10gr8kids]

We were not asked about our living arrangements or if we were having sex. At all. Didn’t even come up.

The priest who married us, didn’t ask either, but I assume he knew we weren’t. That was 20 years ago, and even though many people did live together before marriage then, it wasn’t nearly as common practice as it seems to be now.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The priest who married us, didn’t ask either, but I assume he knew we weren’t. That was 20 years ago, and even though many people did live together before marriage then, it wasn’t nearly as common practice as it seems to be now.

We actually expected to be asked that question and had discussed in advance. I remember being a little surprised when it did not come up but I wasn’t going to be the one to raise it.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

The priest who married us, didn’t ask either, but I assume he knew we weren’t. That was 20 years ago, and even though many people did live together before marriage then, it wasn’t nearly as common practice as it seems to be now.

I suppose it’s also possible that even the priest mentioned by MaryT777 does not actually ask all engaged couples if they are having sex, but has a gift of being able to sense those who he can help inspire to repentance. (Similar to how Padre Pio actually could read the souls of his penitents and determine if they were truly repentant.)

Priests who have such gifts certainly are treasures. Father Serpa seems to have this gift as well, he usually provides very good advice considering he is basing his answers on brief 2 -3 minute phone calls.

EWTN Radio has a similar show but I have noticed the priest who hosts it often winds up admitting he cannot actually answer the caller’s question and the only advise he can give is for them to talk to their own priests.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

One reason I have noticed for “double standards” regarding gay people, is that many Catholics approach the issue through a Culture War mindset, in which all gays are the Enemy who support the Gay Agenda and are out to persecute Christians.

Indeed, I’m surprised no one has stated yet in this topic, is that “There are no fornication pride parades, no contraceptor support clubs in schools, no divorced and remarried people demanding Christians bake them wedding cakes or be sued to oblivion”.

So, they look at suspicion on anyone who identifies as “gay” as they suspect even the “chaste gays” are guilty of collaborating with the Gay Agenda.

This is a good point. The legal cases and the public disagreement directed at any company where the CEO for example expresses any religiously-based negative viewpoint of gay people (Chic-Fil-A for example) has scared a lot of Christians, including some Catholics, into thinking that the Church is somehow going to be legally compelled to marry gay couples and make Catholic business people actively support these weddings, or else.