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DOShea
Guest
That is exceptionally well written.
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oldcelt
Guest
It certainly is.
John
John
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mdgspencer
Guest
Through Catholic history Catholics have considered the rival claims of mercy and justice. It is true that mercy is God’s important attribute, and my wife and myself are devoted the the Divine Mercy. But does mercy mean that there is no justice in God? Or that we cannot act with justice and say someone is wrong? We can pray for mercy for a a sinner, but all the same we should say that some actions are wrong and some people have done wrong-doing. Perhaps it is true though that he did repent before he died as some people think. I agree with the bishop that we cannot presume that anyone is a lost soul, but all the same the Church should not proceed as it accepts whatever the person may have done by honoring them. I would think that any judgement on the Kennedy funeral would have to be made on considerations like these. Perhaps you have concluded that this funeral was just for reasons you believe are good, but all the same I would hope that anyone deciding would have such considerations in mind when making a decision in the matter.
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RobbyS
Guest
Right now I am more inclined to wish hell-fire to rain down a few clergymen, who seem to be trying to ignore the obvious: that two Cardinals of the Church showed up to honor Kennedy as an outstanding Catholic layman, except for the small matter of being one of the biggest supporters of abortion on demand.
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RobbyS
Guest
I think that the bishop is simply shocked by the fact that that many of us were angered by the way these cardinals conducted themselves and have said so openly. But I wish they would realize that we have much less respect for the men who hold their offices than we did ten years ago. The pederast priest scandal took a toll, and stunts like this willThrough Catholic history Catholics have considered the rival claims of mercy and justice. It is true that mercy is God’s important attribute, and my wife and myself are devoted the the Divine Mercy. But does mercy mean that there is no justice in God? Or that we cannot act with justice and say someone is wrong? We can pray for mercy for a a sinner, but all the same we should say that some actions are wrong and some people have done wrong-doing. Perhaps it is true though that he did repent before he died as some people think. I agree with the bishop that we cannot presume that anyone is a lost soul, but all the same the Church should not proceed as it accepts whatever the person may have done by honoring them. I would think that any judgement on the Kennedy funeral would have to be made on considerations like these. Perhaps you have concluded that this funeral was just for reasons you believe are good, but all the same I would hope that anyone deciding would have such considerations in mind when making a decision in the matter.
not improve their image. Does it not occur to them that people see them as people not to be taken seriously?
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GeorgeSword
Guest
I wish more Catholics were more like the bishop instead of screaming how Kennedy didn’t deserve a funeral… I don’t know of the state of his soul at death, but we shouldn’t forget he did many goods things, despite having, in all honesty, condoned murder. Pray for his soul. Time is better spent that way than saying he didn’t deserve a funeral or talking about how bad a person he was.
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ShallowGrave
Guest
Georgesword is gay
oh shi-
oh shi-
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RobbyS
Guest
Did he deserve a STATE funeral attended by two cardinals and eulogized by one of them? This is not about Edward Kennedy, whose fate I do not pretend to know, but the attitude of two prelates toward his vigorous advocacy of a national policy which the Church says is horrible but then treats as something less than horrible.I wish more Catholics were more like the bishop instead of screaming how Kennedy didn’t deserve a funeral… I don’t know of the state of his soul at death, but we shouldn’t forget he did many goods things, despite having, in all honesty, condoned murder. Pray for his soul. Time is better spent that way than saying he didn’t deserve a funeral or talking about how bad a person he was.
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GeorgeSword
Guest
Anyone involved in the government should get a state funeral. If two cardinals wish to attend, I cannot stop them. I think it’s better for us to focus on the good things he did, though, rather than the bad. He did a fair share of both, and all we can do is pray for him.
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manualman
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Every time I hear a quote from Bishop Morlino I wish he had been there when I went to school in Madison!
What an outsanding opportunity to both shepherd the flock AND prove the lie that says that bishops (like Morlino) who are outspoken about abortion as the pre-eminent moral issue of our day are just using the faith as a political tool (recent shameful NCR article) to bludgeon Democrats with.
Our catholic faith quite simply gives BOTH groups of elite political insiders the heebie jeebies. As well it should, sins are sins regardless of the ideology of the sinner. And all sinners are humans, made in the image and likeness of God and loved by Him unto death!
What an outsanding opportunity to both shepherd the flock AND prove the lie that says that bishops (like Morlino) who are outspoken about abortion as the pre-eminent moral issue of our day are just using the faith as a political tool (recent shameful NCR article) to bludgeon Democrats with.
Our catholic faith quite simply gives BOTH groups of elite political insiders the heebie jeebies. As well it should, sins are sins regardless of the ideology of the sinner. And all sinners are humans, made in the image and likeness of God and loved by Him unto death!
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mdgspencer
Guest
The problem as I see it is not with Senator Kennedy in this case so much as with the Catholic Church honoring a pro-abortion politician. Not just giving him a Catholic funeral but honoring him with the presence of high Church people who acted as if this was a normal funeral of someone who lived rightly. As some of the posters may not realize, the U.S. bishops have also very strongly spoken against abortion as a great evil, and in fact any Catholic having an abortion and any Catholic that facilitates it by for example driving the woman to an abortion clinic, is automatically excommunicated from the Catholic Church. Since Senator vigorously worked to shape the law which resulted of course with his full knowledge in the killing of millions of children, I don’t see how Church leaders could honor him during his funeral as if his life were perfectly free of such wrong-doing. He did do some good things, but still one great sin means someone has lost his way, (as the Church has always taught when speaking of mortal sin). Our response for such a person ordinarily should be to pray for them and see if we can help gain his way again rather than thinking that evil is good and doing nothing if we can do something. I have been praying for Senator Kennedy since I learned about his cancer, but not thinking that promoting abortion is a matter of no concern.
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Ender
Guest
The bishop here compounds one fault with another: his judgment of those of us who opposed his actions as being based on a rejection of mercy. I very much doubt that what the world will see in the spectacle that was Kennedy’s funeral a merciful Church so much as a pusillanimous one. How is it possible to contend that God’s justice was fully satisfied when the Church herself says that: “In great crimes, private penance also requires public acknowledgement, lest aberrant actions continue to corrupt and teach.” (Rev. James Schall)The death of Senator Kennedy has called forth at least an apparent rejection of mercy on the part of not a few Catholics. On the cross of Christ, God’s justice came into conflict with God’s mercy. God’s justice was fully satisfied, but mercy triumphed in the conflict, according to the teaching of Pope Benedict. Without denying any misdeeds on the part of Senator Kennedy, the Church, seeking to reflect the face of Christ, proclaimed God’s mercy for the whole world to see in a subdued but unmistakable way. It was more than appropriate. Bishop Morlino
It is not that Kennedy received a Catholic funeral that offended people, it was the fact that his funeral was so publicly attended with such pomp from the highest levels of the Church that people found inappropriate. Cardinal O’Malley, in his paean to Kennedy, while he lamented the senator’s support of abortion, balanced it with a recitation of all the good the senator (allegedly) accomplished … as if in fact our good deeds actually erased our bad ones. Basically this spectacle told everyone - Catholic politicians especially - that it’s OK to oppose abortion so long as you’re good on health care and immigration.
Ender
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Ender
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Obviously I meant to say “it’s OK to support abortion …”Basically this spectacle told everyone - Catholic politicians especially - that it’s OK to oppose abortion so long as you’re good on health care and immigration.
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stbruno
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All I can say is…God have mercy
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Sonny1954
Guest
Yes, **on every single one **of us regardless of any political stands we take.All I can say is…God have mercy
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chain
Guest
It is a hard thing to understand (and for many to accept - especially for those who have been there themselves) that even a Catholic who is barred from the sacraments during life because of serious unrepentant sins, is still allowed the sacrament of extreme unction and the right to have a catholic burial.
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gakroeger
Guest
I wish more Catholics knew their faith, practiced it, and tried to spread the Gospel to the best of their ability including the clergy.I wish more Catholics were more like the bishop instead of screaming how Kennedy didn’t deserve a funeral… I don’t know of the state of his soul at death, but we shouldn’t forget he did many goods things, despite having, in all honesty, condoned murder. Pray for his soul. Time is better spent that way than saying he didn’t deserve a funeral or talking about how bad a person he was.
None of us on earth know how our creator has or will deal with the soul of Senator Kennedy applying both charity and justice, however, I think what concerns most of us is the declining state of our society and how our Church leaders are approaching this decline. The Church was faced with many heresies in the past, especially in the time of Saint Augustine. I maybe wrong, but somehow I don’t think Saint Augustine would have given a eulogy at the funeral of someone who advocated abortion in his age.
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Sonny1954
Guest
May Augustine is giving the Senator a little history lesson right now, who knows? But if he is, I would think it would be given in the spirit of Heaven love. Which, by the way, is something that a man of Augustine’s temperament could have had difficulty learning.I wish more Catholics knew their faith, practiced it, and tried to spread the Gospel to the best of their ability including the clergy.
None of us on earth know how our creator has or will deal with the soul of Senator Kennedy applying both charity and justice, however, I think what concerns most of us is the declining state of our society and how our Church leaders are approaching this decline. The Church was faced with many heresies in the past, especially in the time of Saint Augustine. I maybe wrong, but somehow I don’t think Saint Augustine would have given a eulogy at the funeral of someone who advocated abortion in his age.
As for the Senator, he was given the last rites, buried in consecrated ground and now is in God’s hands. I doubt he is much affected now by my comments or those of any other person.
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gakroeger
Guest
Everyone seems to want to focus on Senator Kennedy. The issue is not the disposition of Senator Kennedy’s soul or his funeral. This issue is how Church leaders can refute heresy and avoid scandal to those trying their best to follow Christ and his teachings.May Augustine is giving the Senator a little history lesson right now, who knows? But if he is, I would think it would be given in the spirit of Heaven love. Which, by the way, is something that a man of Augustine’s temperament could have had difficulty learning.
As for the Senator, he was given the last rites, buried in consecrated ground and now is in God’s hands. I doubt he is much affected now by my comments or those of any other person.
When Church leaders go out of their way to honor someone who apparently went to meet his Lord without any public display of regret for his efforts to make abortion more readily available to anyone who is so inclined, scandalizes all Catholics who are attempting to live according to Church teaching.
How many souls will interpret this reaction by the Church leaders as a green light to follow Senator Kennedy’s example?
The reason I brought up Saint Augustine, is his tireless efforts to denounce all forms of heresy and the need for our current Church leaders to do the same.
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