Bishop Morlino warns dissenters to stop — or else

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Dale_M said:
According to an article in the National Catholic Reporter, disgruntled parishioners are mainly unhappy about the reduced role of the laity, and the speed at which the changes came.

The fact that the previous pastor of St Mary had been there for eleven years and was very popular may be adding to the discontent. He was even invited to attend a fundraiser for the school which was held a couple months ago, but he declined citing prior commitments. That may have been a prudent decision.

Bishop Morlino, Fr. Ruiz and the Diocese of Madison declined to provide information to the NCR reporter.
Neither Morlino nor anyone from the diocese would respond to a request for an interview. A spokesman from the diocese wrote in an email, “We have no hope that assisting NCR with a story will result in a just reporting of the facts regarding the sad situation in Platteville.” Ruiz also did not return a reporter’s call.
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I just love that quote from the diocese.
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Skeptic92 said:
But look how many times they have Holy Mass and access to the Sacrament of Reconciliation :eek:, if they don’t like these Priests am I allowed to rob them for the Parish near my university :o.
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Right? Can I come steal one too?!!
 
superamazingman said:
I firmly believe this is a key “battle” for this diocese. There’s a sizable liberal populous, and if the priests and Bishop stand their ground, it’ll show the liberals they can’t get their way by protesting like this. Like the good bishop said, their feelings are not what is most important. Their souls are what is most important, and these priests will care for their souls like they were their own.
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But they did get their way: the school is closing. And soon, the parishioners will enroll their kids in either public, private or another Catholic school and will attend Mass at another parish, and will continue to withhold funds from the parish. They probably want the church to close as well.

When a certain parish upset me, I withheld all of my financial support (I didn’t petition though) and went to another nearby parish and gave them my support instead. I would have rather the parish close than continue doing what it was doing. These parishioners will just move on without their current church and parish — if it gets that far. Who knows how this one will churn in the end.
 
pollycarp said:
This recently happened at a local parish. Told her she wasn’t needed at the fish fry where she’d worked for many years. She actually joined another denomination. This is just appalling to me.
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What did you expect? That she would “change her ways and submit”? If you push people away, they will go away 🤷
 
Rence said:
What did you expect? That she would “change her ways and submit”? If you push people away, they will go away 🤷
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For people who think churches are interchangeable AND think fish fries are that important in the whole scheme of things, then this may be true.
 
Rence said:
What did you expect? That she would “change her ways and submit”? If you push people away, they will go away 🤷
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Huh? Some person cannot work at some minor event and they leave the Church? That is not pushing people away. There is a much deeper issue.
 
Rence said:
What did you expect? That she would “change her ways and submit”? If you push people away, they will go away 🤷
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Rence, pollycarp, others:

I think some of you are confusing two different issues: One is the issue of internal parish politics, which arises at any parish (just as it operates in any work setting or other structured setting). The internal politics tend to be “controlled” by laity, since lay people run most of the activities and ministries, and they far outweigh the number of clerics! Most often, even when a pastor is the one to deliver a so-called ‘pink slip’ to someone in charge of a ministry or activity, he has been greatly influenced by one or more lay people in that decision. Pastors simply don’t have time, nor inclination, to micromanage the internal politics, or to verify details about personnel reports. (That’s a shame, too, because there’s tremendous injustice that has occurred in parishes because of lay people on power trips, suggesting removal of others based on rumor, detraction, and other sins, with the actual motive being most often envy. I’ve seen this happen repeatedly, and it has no place in Christian service.)

The second is the issue of the dynamic between parishioners – or a significant number of them – and (in this case) a “new” (changed) clerical administration of the parish. That would include reactions to whatever policy changes are instituted by arriving priests/Orders (liturgy, sacraments, physical operations such as open hours, priorities, Adoration, the titles of certain ministries, etc.). It could also include the content of catechesis and the oversight for the catechesis, including adult catechesis. All of these are the legitimate domain of religious authorities.

Supporting Rence’s comment, I also absented myself from any Mass attendance for quite awhile once, due to a grave injustice committed against me by a layperson in a parish, and rubber-stamped by the pastor, who allowed himself to be used. The wrongdoing was far worse than anyone telling me that I wasn’t needed for some (volunteer) committee! I actually lost my job unjustly, due to serial calumny. I am not the first person, nor the last, to have suffered from this in a parish.

In the subject of the thread, the conflict is not among laity as much as between laity and clergy. It is not “unjust” to initiate changes in a parish, when one has the authority to do so. (Technically, the same authorities could institute changes in all of the lay-run ministries as well; it’s just that they recognize the imprudence of doing so, and in most cases would have no time to run these or alternate versions of these.) So far, I have not seen any evidence on this thread that the “new” (2-years now) authorities have engaged in theologically controversial or scandalous initiatives. If it’s “offensive” and “controversial” to lay people to be exposed to traditional Catholic spirituality (within canonically acceptable regulation), then it’s the parishioners who need to make a decision as to whether this parish is one that has something to offer them or whether they are incapable of withholding visible resentment…because to do the latter is a form of injustice against these clergymembers. (And is actually a sin.)
 
iloveangels said:
For people who think churches are interchangeable AND think fish fries are that important in the whole scheme of things, then this may be true.
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I find, in real life, that it’s important for people to be involved in structured social events. It makes them feel welcomed and have a sense of brotherhood/sisterhood. One of the many complaints I read here is that people feel isolated when the go to Church. They feel alone and awkward. These social events, educational opportunities and other gatherings are important to people. Yes, fish fries are not as important. But they are important to people.

IMOHO, it would be better to redirect her bad behavior (whatever it was) and continue her in the fish fry. But that’s just me. I tend to focus on a person’s strength’s with positivity, and redirect their bad behavior.
 
fix said:
Huh? Some person cannot work at some minor event and they leave the Church? That is not pushing people away. There is a much deeper issue.
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Yes, the deeper issue being she was made to feel unwelcomed. I’m not saying she wasn’t partly or mostly responsible for it. I’m just saying it could have been handled better. But in the grand scheme of things, it’s better to keep them within the Church. It may have been a minor event to you, but it obviously meant more to her. Our own feelings aren’t always the more important ones. Sometimes, you have to take care of others by considering their feelings.
 
What Elizabeth said 👍

Elizabeth, I wasn’t aware of your troubles at Mass, and I’m sorry to read that you were made to feel uncomfortable even at Mass by the nasty behaviors of others. I think many people have been there, and I understand you. Maybe you can go to another parish? Just remember you’re special all the same :hug1:
 
Rence said:
What Elizabeth said 👍

Elizabeth, I wasn’t aware of your troubles at Mass, and I’m sorry to read that you were made to feel uncomfortable even at Mass by the nasty behaviors of others. I think many people have been there, and I understand you. Maybe you can go to another parish? Just remember you’re special all the same :hug1:
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The event was many years ago, sister! 🙂 And the troubles were not “at Mass” but in my employment there. I did return after a long absence, and that return was 4 years ago. To be honest, however, at the time of my departure I was also not as committed to sacramental life as I should have been; had I been, the bad actions (sins) of fallible people would not have persuaded me to stay away that long. During my absence, other events occurred in my life to prompt me to examine just how much I depended on God (not bad people) to help me deal with the unholiness of others and the unholiness in myself. Grace is within our sacraments, not outside of them. 🙂

Leaving a parish is different from leaving the Roman Church. The former is understandable, depending on the atmosphere, dynamics, priorities of that parish. The latter is not a solution; it’s an inappropriately generalized reaction to a specific situation. (Which is what I did.)

Earlier in the thread I spoke about my return to a specific (different) parish which had become unpleasant to participate in. (Even Mass had a joyless feel to it, having nothing to do with the rubrics, but the personnel; two of the three priests had severe mental issues, which were acknowledged!) I mentioned that when the personnel changed, I returned to experience a pleasantly different atmosphere. Then, however, like many, I became “attached” to one of the priests there, and the transition to his replacement was difficult for me. I soon realized that it was I who lacked the openness to see the gifts of his replacement for what they were. Once I dropped my own resistance to change (with the help of grace & prayer), I was able to appreciate and receive from this priest what he had to offer uniquely.

Relevant to this thread: Change is not necessarily evil; most often it represents opportunity.
 
Rence said:
Yes, the deeper issue being she was made to feel unwelcomed. I’m not saying she wasn’t partly or mostly responsible for it. I’m just saying it could have been handled better. But in the grand scheme of things, it’s better to keep them within the Church. It may have been a minor event to you, but it obviously meant more to her. Our own feelings aren’t always the more important ones. Sometimes, you have to take care of others by considering their feelings.
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I was responding to the one quote I saw. Deeper issues can always be addressed. The problem is that at times you cannot please some who refused to be pleased. That may be what the OP is all about.
 
Partial quote from post 109:
It makes me wonder though…How many Catholics get too attached to their priests or pastor? I saw that happen in my hometown, the pastor of many years got sick and had to leave, and people were so rude to the new priest.
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I may have heard this on an EWTN radio show; bishops sometimes move a priest so that a “cult of personality” does not develop or continue. Seven years is the average. I know a parish locally where the priest has been there about 13 years. He is popular with many of the parishioners. Rumor is that he will likely be moved. We’ll see.

Our present pastor is in his 60’s & said in a homily he had not expected to be moved (when he was reassigned to my parish). But whether they like it or not, they are to be obedient. They are married to the Church. If a married man keeps disregarding what his bride requests, he will eventually find himself in the ‘dog house’.

I think perhaps some priests get the idea they have more power to refuse a change since there is a shortage of available priests in some dioceses. Here in WI, there is a sort of union, the Milwaukee Priest Alliance. milwalliance.org/consititution.htm
They are not know for their obedience to the Bishop. :blush:shrug:

WI has been a hotbed of dissent for a long time. It takes a strong man to pull the reins back the other way to make that stubborn horse turn around.

IMO, there is way too much Protestant influence. If Catholics don’t want to **BE **Catholic, then they should leave, as they harm the Body of Christ by staying, if they are de-facto Protestants. I recall that Pope B16 said about the same thing?

God bless - Happy Easter!
Mimi
 
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