Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons

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A lot of people who have stridently ignored it these past few years are probably going to be seeing the truth of it in the weeks and months ahead, and regretting many things they have said of late.
The only regrets will come from those who supported the champion of abortion…Obama. These regrets will hopefully manifest in this life…so that there is an opportunity to repent with many tears. Once we face the fearsome judgment seat of Christ…it is too late to repent.
 
To those Catholics who are going to vote for Obama or already have, what proportional reasons are there to vote for Obama who supports unrestricted abortion versus supporting Gov. Romney?
 
The only regrets will come from those who supported the champion of abortion…Obama. These regrets will hopefully manifest in this life…so that there is an opportunity to repent with many tears. Once we face the fearsome judgment seat of Christ…it is too late to repent.
I’ve seen those words carelessly tossed around a lot lately, and it’s part and parcel of what I’m talking about. No matter. The final word is yours, Forum Master.
 
To those Catholics who are going to vote for Obama or already have, what proportional reasons are there to vote for Obama who supports unrestricted abortion versus supporting Gov. Romney?
Exactly!!!

Take careful note of those last two words: “proportionate reasons.” Cardinal Ratzinger, a careful moral theologian, is telling us that a faithful Catholic might vote for a candidate who supported abortion if there were another moral issue as grave and as clear as the abortion issue. But keep in mind that in the text above this footnote, the cardinal made it quite clear that there is no such commensurate issue.

In a statement released on August 11, Bishop Rene Gracida clarified matters:
Since abortion and euthanasia have been defined by the Church as the most serious sins prevalent in our society, what kind of reasons could possibly be considered proportionate enough to justify a Catholic voting for a candidate who is known to be pro-abortion? None of the reasons commonly suggested could even begin to be proportionate enough to justify a Catholic voting for such a candidate. Reasons such as the candidate’s position on war, or taxes, or the death penalty, or immigration, or a national health plan, or social security, or aids, or homosexuality, or marriage, or any similar burning societal issues of our time are simply lacking in proportionality.
catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=32073&repos=4&subrepos=1&searchid=568360
 
But maybe they couldn’t find anything “pro” to say about Romney…
Nonsense. The Bishops have a moral responsibility to inform their flocks regarding candidates who champion abortion, contraception, and gay “marriage.”

…all issues which are diametrically opposed to the moral teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
No, you are more beholden to political ideology than you are to the teachings of the Church, clearly outlined by the Pope (then Cardinal Ratzinger, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Sacred Doctrine of Faith) and the USCCB, see post #772.
I vote pro-life first, then pro-marriage as defined by the Church, then pro-religious liberty. So, no, I cannot vote Democrat.
 
The Obama Catholics have no other justification for their decision than to start calling those with properly formed consciences, “Tea Party Catholics.”
Oh my conscience is properly formed, thank you very much, and others have thankfully confirmed that I have read the relevant Church documents correctly. And yes, I am acutely aware these Church documents do not allow a nonchalant ‘free-for-all’ (if you think that that’s my interpretation of it – because it’s not).
 
To those Catholics who are going to vote for Obama or already have, what proportional reasons are there to vote for Obama who supports unrestricted abortion versus supporting Gov. Romney?
Good point, Obama has in fact supported Infanticide, let’s hope we see the last of this kind of thinking today.
 
Yeah, you’d think.
But maybe they couldn’t find anything “pro” to say about Romney…
Please. Not only would a pro-anyone letter be inappropriate, liberals like yourself and rich would scream bloody murder about politicizing Mass if they endorsed a candidate. Direct your silly anger at the Democratic party getting in bed with the unlimited abortion/pro-death lobby. If they hadn’t kicked the pro-life contingent out, we could be having actual meaningful discussions about the pros and cons of the two parties.

So the takeaways from you and your ilk is the following.
  1. Don’t mention anything political at Mass.
  2. If you do, at least make it an endorsement of a particular candidate.
Yeah, great, consistent ideas…:rolleyes:
 
Oh my conscience is properly formed, thank you very much, and others have thankfully confirmed that I have read the relevant Church documents correctly. And yes, I am acutely aware these Church documents do not allow a nonchalant ‘free-for-all’ (if you think that that’s my interpretation of it – because it’s not).
Two things.
  1. Having a perfectly formed conscience is not possible. It’s like creating a perfect sphere. Not possible whatsoever. You may think you have a well-formed conscience, but no person in history has had what you claim, save for Mary and Jesus. The implication of perfection is the conscience is flawless from the beginning of time to the end of time.
  2. EVEN IF you think your conscience is well-formed, or properly formed, there are numerous people, myself among them, who think the same thing, and believe the EXACT opposite of what you believe. Thus, one of us is wrong. A “perfectly” formed conscience will not lead you away from God, and one of us is headed away from God.
These claims of conscience formation are a bit off.
 
Two things.
  1. Having a perfectly formed conscience is not possible. It’s like creating a perfect sphere. Not possible whatsoever. You may think you have a well-formed conscience, but no person in history has had what you claim, save for Mary and Jesus. The implication of perfection is the conscience is flawless from the beginning of time to the end of time.
  2. EVEN IF you think your conscience is well-formed, or properly formed, there are numerous people, myself among them, who think the same thing, and believe the EXACT opposite of what you believe. Thus, one of us is wrong. A “perfectly” formed conscience will not lead you away from God, and one of us is headed away from God.
These claims of conscience formation are a bit off.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.

ll people have an obligation to inform their consciences regarding the moral choices they make in life. For Catholics to deliberately refuse to inform their consciences with the teachings of the Church or if they deliberately disobey the moral teaching of the Church, they can sin mortally if the choice is a serious one. But if people sincerely follow their consciences, whether their consciences are well informed or through not fault of their own they are not, they do not sin by acting on them.
 
When you find perfection in anything, email me. Improving your conscience is a no brainer.
I can agree and think Father Serpa’s statement says the same thing, a little more eloquently maybe. 🙂
 
ll people have an obligation to inform their consciences regarding the moral choices they make in life. For Catholics to deliberately refuse to inform their consciences with the teachings of the Church or if they deliberately disobey the moral teaching of the Church, they can sin mortally if the choice is a serious one. But if people sincerely follow their consciences, whether their consciences are well informed or through not fault of their own they are not, they do not sin by acting on them.
I would just add that Catholics really need to be aware that in the current atmosphere of heresy and dissident teaching coming even from some of our pulpits, that it is not individual priests or even bishops that we follow in the formation of our conscience. It is, rather, the infallible teachings of Holy Mother Church through her entire Magisterium.
 
To those Catholics who are going to vote for Obama or already have, what proportional reasons are there to vote for Obama who supports unrestricted abortion versus supporting Gov. Romney?
I am an independent voter and found things about both candidates that I liked. I had a hard time deciding who I should vote for too. I found what I thought were proportional reasons that would allow me to vote for Obama… but it doesn’t matter now.

You see, in addition to trying to figure it all out (and separate other people’s opinions from Church teaching), I’ve been doing a lot of praying for guidance–I asked for a clear message because I was confused. What finally helped me make up my mind was that I prayed for guidance before Mass when I was out of town two weeks ago. At the very end of the Mass the priest commented on the election and basically said voting for Obama would be a mortal sin. Well, that’s a pretty clear message. So I am voting for Romney.

I won’t get into the details, but there are things about Obama and what he’s done that I like… and there are things about Romney I like too. I really don’t think either candidate is pro-life though… but I will trust and let the Church be my guide on this.

The second choice that’s hard for me is our US Senator. One is pro-abortion and the other is an unapologetic racist. Luckily the election for our House Seat is easier for me… both have the same view on abortion, so I can completely set that aside and vote on the other issues there.
 
Because Obama has done so much to combat this issue. :rolleyes:
He’s trying his best and has done a lot – more than any other prez after Nixon (Nixon and Teddy Roosevelt being the best environmental presidents).

The congress is horrid on this issue – prob bec the American people who sent them there are so bad, and of course we know the Koch/Exxon/Scaife moneys that paid for their campaigns has had its intended effect.

Obama has some failures on environmental policy – such as approving part of the XL pipeline to bring corrosive bitumen from Canada that will corrode pipes and poison our aquifers and lands – so that Canada (not us) can sell oil to the Chinese. We don’t really need those temporary jobs building pipelines that will do us great harm, poisoning our land for 1000s of years. And there have been some other failures.

However, he upped the CAFE standards which flatlined after the 70s – with improved tech going into bigger, heavier, more powerful cars than into more efficient cars. That alone will get us to the Copenhagen commitment he made re reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and also reduce local pollution – which among other health harms causes miscarriages.

He has toughened coal power regs – which will help save lives.

He has talked about reducing subsidies & tax-breaks to oil and coal – but I’m thinking since the American people and their reps are so evil, that probably won’t happen.

He has provided loans to alt energy and other environmental projects – some of which failed (everyone cites Solyndra), but many of which have succeeded and are either paid off or are on track to be paid off (with interest).

He supports continuing the tax credit for utility scale wind generation.

He has given the EPA the authority to regulate GHGs.

Romney on the other hand is against all of these environmental policies and for annihilating life on planet earth, refusing to even consider that global warming and other local and regional environmental problems are a serious threat to health and life. He is a “drill, baby, drill” candiate with no heart for human health or life. It is totally impossible for me to think he could sincerely be against abortion (that anti-environmental stance, along with an anti-health care stance).

Unfortunately the converse is not true – it is possible for people concerned about the environment and their children’s future to be pro-abortion…of other people’s children, so their own stand a better chance. That would be truly selfish and evil, tho no one is claiming to be pro-abortion, only pro-choice (that it is not the gov’s role to decide whether a woman should or should not get an abortion).

But saying there are no environmental issues threatening the health and lives of people (or it is not the gov role to try and reduce these threats) is just as evil, if not more so, bec that involves harm to everyone’s progeny, not just other people’s. The gov very much has a right to step in when people are causing harm to other people, otherwise what is the use of gov in the first place.

If people refuse to accept there are serious environmental problems harming and killing people and even more serious ones in the pipes or in process that could kill off a large portion (perhaps all) of life and humanity, so be it. Vote your mind and your conscience.
 
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