Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons

[OU812]

Why? It makes no sense. Again you wander from the thread. The letter is with respect to the issues I noted; abortion, religious freedom, and other non-negotiables. You won’t address these issues which are the subject of the thread and point to the DIFFERENCES between the parties. Instead you speak of military bases and states’ rights.

And with regards to abortion - again - what appropriate steps have been taken to strike down Roe?

Again, what politician has come out and said “okay, states, the ball is in your court! You run with it.” I brought it up the first time around because neither republican or democrat is willing to give up power on the federal level and give it to the states. Once you do that, you limit their control and how much money gets sent to the federal government, and if the amount they receive is lowered, out the window go some agencies and plans.

…We’re still paying for New Deals that were enacted under Roosevelt, for crying out loud.

I bring up military bases because look at how this country operated under Eisenhower all the way up to now; nothing has really changed, and I highly doubt our military-industrial complex ceases with either a republican or democrat in office.

I’ll bring up another thing both are wishy-washy towards: illegal immigration and securing our border. You’ve had and still have empty promises, false hope being delivered by both camps only to make sure they end up with the Latino vote. What new paths of citizenship have been enacted? What new regulations have been made? What amnesty is in the works?

What’s being done to secure our border: a half-complete wall that’s only created more problems? Why can’t we put more soldiers along there, have some of that military money pumped here instead of elsewhere?

And the other parts that you did not bring up: look how some of these politicians ended up in the positions they currently are in, look who’s endorsing them. Again, why are both not as abrasive with regards to China and what they export to us, limiting the number of jobs being outsourced? I think it would be better to have more employment possibilities here in the U.S. and have the company and the government pump money here as opposed to Canada, or China, or Mexico, or India, etc.

So, you’ve got dishonesty or incompetency at work with regards to Roe, you don’t have politicians eager for states to determine things for themselves (That’s how you would lessen Roe), you have forces all over the place and they aren’t shy of meddling in foreign affairs (Not even bringing up Iraq or Afghanistan) and not being hesitant in using force (Both Popes and various bishops have spoken out against this), we’ve gotten only promises by both sides that have gone unfulfilled…and you still somewhat want to make me believe that republicans and democrats are not two sides of the same worthless coin?!

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Why are you winking at me? Romney will appoint those judges most likely to support financial decisions that benefit corporations and capitalism as well as free trade. I am telling you that stances on abortion will play a small, if any role his selection to Supreme Court Justices. I suspect any appointees stance on abortion will be “blurry”, some may not even have a record in that regard.

Obama will support pro-choice judges, without question or compromise. A pro-life stance will be grounds for termination.

All I am saying is do not make Romney out to be some moral hero who is pro-life, he’s not and it won’t guide his decisions much if at all. His heart is indeed the wrong place, and fighting evil with evil does not make something right.

It always worries me when we start talking politics, I never know if the rug will be yanked but the mod has already posted so I guess we are O.K. Anyway, we know what we will get with Omama and we don’t want more of that. And if Romney wins, there will be " coatails, " perhaps enough to take the Senate. But even then we will have to keep on top of both Houses. It will be a struggle even if the right folks get in.

 

[LisaA]

And with regards to abortion - again - what appropriate steps have been taken to strike down Roe?

So, you’ve got dishonesty or incompetency at work with regards to Roe, you don’t have politicians eager for states to determine things for themselves (That’s how you would lessen Roe), you have forces all over the place and they aren’t shy of meddling in foreign affairs (Not even bringing up Iraq or Afghanistan) and not being hesitant in using force (Both Popes and various bishops have spoken out against this), we’ve gotten only promises by both sides that have gone unfulfilled…and you still somewhat want to make me believe that republicans and democrats are not two sides of the same worthless coin?!

For the final time, please tell me how the two parties are identical with respect to life issues, gay marriage and religious freedom. This is not about China, the New Deal, or military bases.

With regard to abortion and please do not think that the ONLY approach is overturning Roe since abortion was legal BEFORE Roe, the Republicans have advanced personhood legislation, appointed pro-life judges, enacted legislation limiting certain procedures, promoted legislation that protected religious freedoms, blocked the attempt by the Obama administration to promote FOCA, opposed giving funds to countries for abortion (Mexico City policy), etc. All of which have been blocked, stoppped or not brought to the floor for a vote.

Now again, how are the two similar with respect to the thread’s subject? Please refrain from the same litany of the stereotypical “curse God and die” approach. We live in the real world.

Lisa

 

[pnewton]

Yes Ishii I translate the bishop in the manner in which I do because barring an Electoral College tie, either Obama is going to win 270 or more Electoral votes from the election on Tues and be reelected or the Republican is. One or the other.

That is not a translation, but spin. No names were mentioned. The same Catholic teaching that has always been taught was proclaimed. If the evil of abortion and intrusion by the federal government into Church affairs is translated into being an attack on Obama, that is the presidents problem. Church teaching never has changed on this.

 

[ringil]

I would have to agree here, he is saying something, we cannot vote for the democrat party as long as their platform endorses intrinsic evils. You can try to spin it into this bishop is partisan, thats what you guys do. If we stand on the principle of the issues and vote against the democrat we are partisan, but you talk down the cadidte and speak up for the one pushing abortion and you are non partisan, humm. I’ll figure this game out one day.

There have been letters from Bishops which are more measured and have explicitly spoken of Life issues, Gay marriage, embryonic stem-cell research etc.

This Bishop goes further than that and speaks of reducing the debt and other GOP emphasis direct from Romney. Yes, reducing the debt is important but IN CONTEXT of his letter he is saying “vote for Romney.”

I’m too lazy to quote the other portions. Maybe after some coffee.

 

[Mickey]

In my Christian faith I honestly don’t believe abortion, contraception, and SS marriage are *more *important in which to base my vote in a secular election on than for instance the poor or the sick without adequate health care coverage. Or than war and peace issues.

You are sadly mistaken. Nothing is more important than the murder of 55 million babies in the womb.

For Thou didst take possession of my reins, O Lord, Thou didst lay hold of me from the womb of my mother.
Psalm 138 (139)

 

[pnewton]

This Bishop goes further than that and speaks of reducing the debt and other GOP emphasis direct from Romney. .

Again, here is the full text:

Dear Catholic Believers,

Since the foundation of the American Republic and the adoption of the Bill of Rights, I do not think there has ever been a time more threatening to our religious liberty than the present. Neither the president of the United States nor the current majority of the Federal Senate have been willing to even consider the Catholic community’s grave objections to those HHS mandates that would require all Catholic institutions, exempting only our church buildings, to fund abortion, sterilization, and artificial contraception. This assault upon our religious freedom is simply without precedent in the American political and legal system. Contrary to the guarantees embedded in the First Amendment, the HHS mandates attempt to now narrowly define and thereby drastically limit our traditional religious works. They grossly and intentionally intrude upon the deeply held moral convictions that have always guided our Catholic schools, hospitals, and other apostolic ministries.

Nearly two thousand years ago, after our Savior had been bound, beaten, scourged, mocked, and crowned with thorns, a pagan Roman Procurator displayed Jesus to a hostile crowd by sarcastically declaring: “Behold your King.” The mob roared back: “We have no king but Caesar.” Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord. They are objectively guilty of grave sin. For those who hope for salvation, no political loyalty can ever take precedence over loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ and to his Gospel of Life. God is not mocked, and as the Bible clearly teaches, after this passing instant of life on earth, God’s great mercy in time will give way to God’s perfect judgment in eternity.

I therefore call upon every practicing Catholic in this Diocese to vote. Be faithful to Christ and to your Catholic Faith. May God guide and protect His Holy Church, and may God bless America.

Most Reverend Daniel R. Jenky, CSC
Catholic Bishop of Peoria

thecatholicpost.com/post/…e.aspx?ID=2656

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Again, I approve of the Bishop’s letter.

 

[ringil]

Again, here is the full text:

Dear Catholic Believers,

Since the foundation of the American Republic and the adoption of the Bill of Rights, I do not think there has ever been a time more threatening to our religious liberty than the present. Neither the president of the United States nor the current majority of the Federal Senate have been willing to even consider the Catholic community’s grave objections to those HHS mandates that would require all Catholic institutions, exempting only our church buildings, to fund abortion, sterilization, and artificial contraception. This assault upon our religious freedom is simply without precedent in the American political and legal system. Contrary to the guarantees embedded in the First Amendment, the HHS mandates attempt to now narrowly define and thereby drastically limit our traditional religious works. They grossly and intentionally intrude upon the deeply held moral convictions that have always guided our Catholic schools, hospitals, and other apostolic ministries.

Nearly two thousand years ago, after our Savior had been bound, beaten, scourged, mocked, and crowned with thorns, a pagan Roman Procurator displayed Jesus to a hostile crowd by sarcastically declaring: “Behold your King.” The mob roared back: “We have no king but Caesar.” Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord. They are objectively guilty of grave sin. For those who hope for salvation, no political loyalty can ever take precedence over loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ and to his Gospel of Life. God is not mocked, and as the Bible clearly teaches, after this passing instant of life on earth, God’s great mercy in time will give way to God’s perfect judgment in eternity.

I therefore call upon every practicing Catholic in this Diocese to vote. Be faithful to Christ and to your Catholic Faith. May God guide and protect His Holy Church, and may God bless America.

Most Reverend Daniel R. Jenky, CSC
Catholic Bishop of Peoria

thecatholicpost.com/post/…e.aspx?ID=2656

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Wisconsin Bishop. His letter was pretty clearly Pro-Romney.

Harder to argue for this one- though I personally think He goes a little far, but I was referring to a different letter.

Sorry

 

[Swiss_Guy]

You could ask the same questions about Hitler and substitute German Catholic for “anyone.” Some did, you know.

Not many.

http://wpolityce.pl/site_media/media/cache/92/5f/925ff5cb60750c5543c801c6c1f25df4.jpg

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7408/mapgr.jpg

 

[Marie5890]

My sense is that these letters and statements will have little impact. People have largely made up their minds by now.

John

That is my thought as well.

 

[estesbob]

You can not find a single member of the Magestrium that even hints it is acceptable for a Catholic to vote for President Obama You can find a multitude of Democrat Catholics trying to twist Church teaching into a generic “votefor anyone you like as long as it feels OK. to you” Or they so demonize the GOP you would think Satan had released the minions of hell to lead the Party and 1.2million deadfuildrena year is asmall price to pay to stop them.

I know its tough to leave the party you have affiliated with your whole life-especially for those in my generation who can remember when the Democrat pagrty really was the party of life and really did care about the poor and needy. But those days are long gone and. the Democrat party will continue to embrace the Culture of death until all Catholics stand as one and quit supporting them.

 

[pnewton]

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Wisconsin Bishop. His letter was pretty clearly Pro-Romney.

LOL Imagine that. Losing track of what political thread one is on. At least it was on the same subject, which is better than I have done.

I really think the Democrats, moderates and liberals that post here do get mistreated. It can’t be easy. Yes, the Republicans have the moral high ground on the greatest evil in our country, but they sure seem to seek the low ground on most everything else. I wish the Democrats would see a resurgence in the value of life within their party. It would fit in so well with the idea of helping those who are truly most in need. I hope once this election is over we can all go back to following the Church on supporting all moral issues with our voice to our representatives, even the ones that run counter to our party’s platform.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

LOL Imagine that. Losing track of what political thread one is on. At least it was on the same subject, which is better than I have done.

I really think the Democrats, moderates and liberals that post here do get mistreated. It can’t be easy. Yes, the Republicans have the moral high ground on the greatest evil in our country, but they sure seem to seek the low ground on most everything else. I wish the Democrats would see a resurgence in the value of life within their party. It would fit in so well with the idea of helping those who are truly most in need. I hope once this election is over we can all go back to following the Church on supporting all moral issues with our voice to our representatives, even the ones that run counter to our party’s platform.

When I was young, members of both parties seemed moderate. You could barely tell a Catholic Democrat from a Catholic Republican. I myself evolved into a Rockefeller Republican with moderate social views and conservative fiscal beliefs. The state of both parties today is very discouraging. Too many extremists on both sides of the political spectrum; I suppose independent voters make up the sane middle of the country.

 

[Al_Moritz]

Yes, the Republicans have the moral high ground on the greatest evil in our country

They only pretend to, at least on the federal level. But Catholics fall for their pretensions and magical words like suckers. The reality is different:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9966023&postcount=179

 

[pnewton]

They only pretend to, at least on the federal level%between%

I am sorry to disagree, but as I am capable of reading and thought, I can not convolute my mind to agree with you here. Even a cursory reading of the platforms tells enough.

When we have a viable Democratic presidential candidate that is opposed to abortion, I will concede you may be correct.

 

[rlg94086]

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Wisconsin Bishop. His letter was pretty clearly Pro-Romney.

Harder to argue for this one- though** I personally think He goes a little far**, but I was referring to a different letter.

Sorry

Where do you think he went too far?

 

[ringil]

LOL Imagine that. Losing track of what political thread one is on. At least it was on the same subject, which is better than I have done.

I really think the Democrats, moderates and liberals that post here do get mistreated. It can’t be easy. Yes, the Republicans have the moral high ground on the greatest evil in our country, but they sure seem to seek the low ground on most everything else. I wish the Democrats would see a resurgence in the value of life within their party. It would fit in so well with the idea of helping those who are truly most in need. I hope once this election is over we can all go back to following the Church on supporting all moral issues with our voice to our representatives, even the ones that run counter to our party’s platform.

Oh, I agree,

I am certainly disappointed, aggravated, upset etc. with the Democrats stand on Abortion, gay marriage, etc. I am a liberal, not so much a Democrat.

I would love, love, love to see some democrats embrace life issues. I can only pray regarding this issue.

As it stands now I do not participate in any organized pro-life activities because if my politics were known I would be a pariah.

I don’t believe that life issues have anything to do with conservative fiscal, and governmental policy but these seem to go hand in hand in the Pro Life movement.

 

[Jeanne_S]

LOL Imagine that. Losing track of what political thread one is on. At least it was on the same subject, which is better than I have done.

I really think the Democrats, moderates and liberals that post here do get mistreated. It can’t be easy. Yes, the Republicans have the moral high ground on the greatest evil in our country, but they sure seem to seek the low ground on most everything else. I wish the Democrats would see a resurgence in the value of life within their party. It would fit in so well with the idea of helping those who are truly most in need. I hope once this election is over we can all go back to following the Church on supporting all moral issues with our voice to our representatives, even the ones that run counter to our party’s platform.

The Republicans are more closely aligned with the Church on all of the non negtiables.wheras the Dems are in direct opposition to all them.

 

[LisaA]

Oh, I agree,

I am certainly disappointed, aggravated, upset etc. with the Democrats stand on Abortion, gay marriage, etc. I am a liberal, not so much a Democrat.

I would love, love, love to see some democrats embrace life issues. I can only pray regarding this issue.

As it stands now I do not participate in any organized pro-life activities because if my politics were known I would be a pariah.

I don’t believe that life issues have anything to do with conservative fiscal, and governmental policy but these seem to go hand in hand in the Pro Life movement.

Why do liberals consistently equate government programs with charity? There are things in life we cannot delegate and voting to tax the other guy to pay for programs you approve of is not a charitable approach but is an irresponsible approach. Unfortunately that seems to be the basis for liberals demonizing fiscal conservatism. They like using OPM to assuage their consciouses and so they can preen about how much “they” are doing to help the poor.

How about using your own time, talent and treasure in furtherance of Catholic teaching with respect to the poor instead of thinking if you vote for a big government Democrat the work will be done for you?

Lisa