Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons

[seekerz]

Friend, his point, and you probably know it, is that many of those who receive government checks will vote for the highest bidder, always the Democrat, and to hell with a Constitutional government of principle, a government of LAW and not MEN. Do you know that you egregiously twisting Mitt’s words, or not? Sheesh! Rob

Twisting his words? How? As in the treatment of “you didn’t build that” or “don’t boo, vote - that’s the best revenge”?

I don’t see how hard it is to accept that there is no moral superiority in political tactics…

 

[LisaA]

Let me say it again, I can support Obama and reject his abortion stance. That means I can value the life of the unborn in accordance with my Church’s teaching and reject the shapeshifters of the political landscape, still in accordance with those teachings. Sorry if that is difficult to accept.

No you can’t if you purport to be a believing Catholic. I don’t know why that is so difficult to accept.
Lisa

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Like the Ten Commandments, which influenced our legal system, the concept of being our brothers’ keepers seems also to have influenced our taxation system. Great - it speaks to the power of the Gospel to influence even the secular activities of man…

You cannot honestly tell me that all the 47% who don’t pay taxes can’t pay something?

You can’t honestly tell me that we can’t figure out how to get people on welfare/certain disabilites to get back to work?

 

[seekerz]

seekerz you miss the whole point of the thread. The Bishops, the Church and certainly a reading of the CCC would inform you that you cannot vote for Obama even if he like some of his policies because his pro-abortion stance is a non-negotiable. You can’t ignore the whole point of the thread, the Bishops, centuries of Catholic teaching because you like Obama’s healthcare bill.

By saying it’s your bra(name removed by moderator)ower that allows this you are making a false god of yourself and your intelligence. Don’t you see that?

I don’t always agree with the Bishops but I don’t think I’m ever so much smarter and nuanced than they. Do you?

Lisa

Lisa, Lisa come on. I wasn’t born yesterday and I’ve been on here before Obama won the presidency. I know where to go if I need Catechesis.

The Church has NEVER said that Catholics of good conscience cannot vote for Obama and it NEVER will. It will however, defend my right to exercise my well-formed conscience in supporting the candidate of MY choice. And yes, God expects me to use my brain - that’s the whole point of Him giving me one.

 

[Mickey]

I live in the real world.

Really?

If a woman wants an abortion - legal or not, she can have one

Much, much more difficult if illegal.

This is 2012, not 1970 - no need for back street anything.

If it becomes illegal…that will change.

Women in countries where abortion is illegal, do it everyday.

Which countries? Are the abortion rates high? What is the mother’s mortality rates?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

seekerz you miss the whole point of the thread. The Bishops, the Church and certainly a reading of the CCC would inform you that you cannot vote for Obama even if he like some of his policies because his pro-abortion stance is a non-negotiable. You can’t ignore the whole point of the thread, the Bishops, centuries of Catholic teaching because you like Obama’s healthcare bill.

By saying it’s your bra(name removed by moderator)ower that allows this you are making a false god of yourself and your intelligence. Don’t you see that?

I don’t always agree with the Bishops but I don’t think I’m ever so much smarter and nuanced than they. Do you?

Lisa

It boggles my mind that seekerz is so willing to help the poor that she is willing to overlook the murder of children.

Murder is always wrong.

There are many ways to help the poor.

It is as simple as that.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Lisa, Lisa come on. I wasn’t born yesterday and I’ve been on here before Obama won the presidency. I know where to go if I need Catechesis.

The Church has NEVER said that Catholics of good conscience cannot vote for Obama and it NEVER will. It will however, defend my right to exercise my well-formed conscience in supporting the candidate of MY choice. And yes, God expects me to use my brain - that’s the whole point of Him giving me one.

Well formed?

 

[LisaA]

Lisa, Lisa come on. I wasn’t born yesterday and I’ve been on here before Obama won the presidency. I know where to go if I need Catechesis.

The Church has NEVER said that Catholics of good conscience cannot vote for Obama and it NEVER will. It will however, defend my right to exercise my well-formed conscience in supporting the candidate of MY choice. God expects me to use my brain - that’s the whole point of Him giving me one.

The Church has said you cannot vote for a candidate with Obama’s positions. Where do you find the weasel words to let you out? How does your BRAIN inform you about an issue of faith? You apparently believe the Bishops and the CCC are wrong in their clear directives regarding voting for pro abortion candidates. Please give me some guidance as to where you’ve found the loophole. I thought it was pretty clear.

Deliver us from evil seems so appropriate for this election.
Lisa

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Really?
Much, much more difficult if illegal.
If it becomes illegal…that will change.
Which countries? Are the abortion rates high? What is the mother’s mortality rates?

I live in reality and if you make abortion harder to get, the rates will go down.

You’ll always have immoral acts around the fringe.

 

[RACJ]

Let me say it again, I can support Obama and reject his abortion stance. That means I can value the life of the unborn in accordance with my Church’s teaching and reject the shapeshifters of the political landscape, still in accordance with those teachings. Sorry if that is difficult to accept.

It is impossible to accept. People who vote for Obama ARE turning their backs to the killing of millions of babies right until the moment of birth. You can’t vote for the slaveholder because he is “good” on other issues. At least, I can’t .
Let me tell you, Obama court appointments will eventually lead to YOU and ME paying for ALL abortions, and ultimately they will silence all protests as "hate speech. We are squandering our great American inheritance, thanks to greed and envy. May God spare us. Rob

 

[seekerz]

You cannot honestly tell me that all the 47% who don’t pay taxes can’t pay something?

You can’t honestly tell me that we can’t figure out how to get people on welfare/certain disabilites to get back to work?

No, I won’t tell you those things. Neither will I assume anything about people with whom I’m not familiar. I do know that there are work/training requirements for government assistance; I also know that jobs which can support a family are not necessarily available for everyone who wants them.

 

[seekerz]

It is impossible to accept. People who vote for Obama ARE turning their backs to the killing of millions of babies right until the moment of birth. You can’t vote for the slaveholder because he is “good” on other issues. At least, I can’t .
Let me tell you, Obama court appointments will eventually lead to YOU and ME paying for ALL abortions, and ultimately they will silence all protests as "hate speech. We are squandering our great American inheritance, thanks to greed and envy. May God spare us. Rob

I will take my Church’s teaching over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday. My rights to conscience are mine, not yours. Sorry, if the fear factor doesn’t sway me but the sky was supposed to fall on 11/6/08 if Obama won…

 

[rlg94086]

I will take my Church’s teaching over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday. My rights to conscience are mine, not yours. Sorry, if the fear factor doesn’t sway me but the sky was supposed to fall on 11/6/08 if Obama won…

I’ll take the Catholic Church’s teaching over yours. The church of seekerz is at odds with the teaching of the Catholic Church, from what I can tell. I’ve never heard an instruction from a Bishop of the Catholic Church that matches what you’ve been posting.

 

[RACJ]

Twisting his words? How? As in the treatment of “you didn’t build that” or “don’t boo, vote - that’s the best revenge”?

I don’t see how hard it is to accept that there is no moral superiority in political tactics…

Every successful businessman KNOWS that his good fortune depended upon the groundwork laid by others. A child knows that. But I didn’t put in the countless hours before the business turned a profit. The INDIVIDUAL did that. OBAMA thinks that everyone should feel an obligation to the bloated bureaucracy, as if we are not taxed punitively now.
YOU understand the "revenge " talk? Do you also comprehend why he wants to bring a “gun to a knife fight”? Or Jarrett’s trash talk? Rob

 

[LisaA]

I live in reality and if you make abortion harder to get, the rates will go down.

You’ll always have immoral acts around the fringe.

This is absolutely true. I remember the days when abortion was illegal in many states and even in states where it was legal, difficult and expensive to obtain. In those days when a girl or woman had an unplanned pregnancy there were three alternatives; get married (most common), have the baby and adopt the baby to a family, or keep the baby. In my high school nearly 10% of the girls got pregnant (this was in the 1970s) before high school graduation. Most married, the rest kept their babies. No one would have thought of murdering the innocent baby. This in a state where abortion was LEGAL.

Once Roe occurred the floodgates opened and with the evil complicity of organizations like Planned Parenthood, abortions became easily accessed, relatively inexpensive and guilt free.

CMatt pulls out his violin to talk about women praying, seeking counsel with their pastors and consulting their doctors before making this “difficult” decision. BALONEY. This probably occurs less frequently than a “Life of the Mother” exception. Before I was Catholic I was aware of many women who had abortions, sometimes multiple abortions. They put about as much thought into it as having a boil removed. THIS is what has happened because of Roe.

Abortion has become guilt free, pain free and often cost free because of PP and the media. It’s become the first choice not the last choice. Any restriction on abortion will reduce the numbers.

seekerz claims politicians don’t make a difference. If that were the case why has Obama’s presidency expanded abortion access, abortion funding, and abortion support? Do we really think it made no difference that Clinton vetoed Partial Birth Abortion limits whereas Bush signed them? We don’t have to have perfection in a candidate to believe that incremental gains will be made. If we vote for Obama, even recent gains will be losses.

Lisa

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I’ll take the Catholic Church’s teaching over yours. The church of seekerz is at odds with the teaching of the Catholic Church, from what I can tell. I’ve never heard an instruction from a Bishop of the Catholic Church that matches what you’ve been posting.

I’ve seen no compellling evidence from Romney or other canidates that would allow me to vote for Obama

 

[seekerz]

Really?
Much, much more difficult if illegal.
If it becomes illegal…that will change.
Which countries? Are the abortion rates high? What is the mother’s mortality rates?

Abortion rates in the Third World in general, are higher than in the developed world despite abortion legality in much of the latter. Like many things in life, these rates depend on education/economy/opportunity and sociocultural factors. Comparing numbers is difficult because of the political nature of the issue and because exact statistics are hard to come by in the Third World, especially where women can be jailed for aborting.

My personal experience is that women have them anyway: they induce at home and then get admitted to hospital with a story suggesting natural miscarriage. Mostly, doctors and nurses do not act on their suspicions partly due to limited resources with which to prove a case and partly because they identify with their patients. In countries where abortion is still strongly opposed by society, medical professionals tend to investigate but again limited resources mean that the accused women may or may not be guilty. Much of it comes down to prevailing attitudes and existing penalties.

 

[seekerz]

This is absolutely true. I remember the days when abortion was illegal in many states and even in states where it was legal, difficult and expensive to obtain. In those days when a girl or woman had an unplanned pregnancy there were three alternatives; get married (most common), have the baby and adopt the baby to a family, or keep the baby. In my high school nearly 10% of the girls got pregnant (this was in the 1970s) before high school graduation. Most married, the rest kept their babies. No one would have thought of murdering the innocent baby. This in a state where abortion was LEGAL.

Once Roe occurred the floodgates opened and with the evil complicity of organizations like Planned Parenthood, abortions became easily accessed, relatively inexpensive and guilt free.

CMatt pulls out his violin to talk about women praying, seeking counsel with their pastors and consulting their doctors before making this “difficult” decision. BALONEY. This probably occurs less frequently than a “Life of the Mother” exception. Before I was Catholic I was aware of many women who had abortions, sometimes multiple abortions. They put about as much thought into it as having a boil removed. THIS is what has happened because of Roe.

Abortion has become guilt free, pain free and often cost free because of PP and the media. It’s become the first choice not the last choice. Any restriction on abortion will reduce the numbers.

seekerz claims politicians don’t make a difference. If that were the case why has Obama’s presidency expanded abortion access, abortion funding, and abortion support? Do we really think it made no difference that Clinton vetoed Partial Birth Abortion limits whereas Bush signed them? We don’t have to have perfection in a candidate to believe that incremental gains will be made. If we vote for Obama, even recent gains will be losses.

Lisa

Show me the stats that any of what you refer to had much of an impact.

 

[seekerz]

I’ll take the Catholic Church’s teaching over yours. The church of seekerz is at odds with the teaching of the Catholic Church, from what I can tell. I’ve never heard an instruction from a Bishop of the Catholic Church that matches what you’ve been posting.

Nice try. There is one pope and he is not you, so guess what that makes your church?

 

[Jessup]

Sounds like a pretty awesome Bishop to me. I’'ll have to show this to my LDS friends who keep bringing it up to me that the news says 60% of Catholics are voting for Obama