Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons

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seekerz said:
Nice try. There is one pope and he is not you, so guess what that makes your church?
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seekerz you are creating your own church. Your position is at odds with every single statement I’ve seen on this subject. Can you please show some actual Church support for your “cafeteria” approach?

I get a daily column from Courageous Priest and thought this was appropriate:

Some will say: “the church has no right in telling me how to vote”.

Bishop Peter Libasci (letter in the link below) is not telling us how to vote, only that we must vote and to be aware that when we vote we must make judgments between politicians and their policy. The Scripture says “as we judge so shall we be judged”. Our Bishop is telling us that we must vote “OUR CONSCIENCE”, but it must be an “INFORMED CONSCIENCE.” An informed conscience asks “what does God have to say about my vote, what does my church teach and why does it teach that”?
To those who say: “the church has no right in telling me how to vote,” I reply that the church has a duty to inform the faithful, instructing them in the Commandments and life in Christ. (See CCC 2246 below)

Any individual who says he can advocate for and enable the practice of abortion and claims that he can still be a Catholic in good standing, has a very serious problem with integrity which that person ignores only at their own peril. I am saying that you need to think and pray very carefully about your vote, because a vote for a candidate who promotes actions or behaviors that are intrinsically evil and gravely sinful makes you morally complicit and places the eternal salvation of your soul in serious jeopardy.

Father Paul Gousse,
Our Lady of the Holy Rosary and St. Leo parish in Rochester, NH

Bishop Peter Libasci Letter of 10-31-12
 
RACJ said:
Every successful businessman KNOWS that his good fortune depended upon the groundwork laid by others. A child knows that. But I didn’t put in the countless hours before the business turned a profit. The INDIVIDUAL did that. OBAMA thinks that everyone should feel an obligation to the bloated bureaucracy, as if we are not taxed punitively now.
YOU understand the "revenge " talk? Do you also comprehend why he wants to bring a “gun to a knife fight”? Or Jarrett’s trash talk? Rob
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I hear crazy talk everyday: from people dedicating themseleves to a leader’s failure, to an elected official who insulted the office of the president before the whole world over a matter of opinion, to comedians who make unfunny ‘jokes’, to those who use the airwaves to insult the people they disagree with - after a while, it all blends into one.

That morass is certainly not what I would base a decision regarding political candidates on.
 
rlg94086 said:
:hmmm: I’ll take the Catholic Church’s teaching over yours. The church of seekerz is at odds with the teaching of the Catholic Church, from what I can tell. I’ve never heard an instruction from a Bishop of the Catholic Church that matches what you’ve been posting.
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“All people have an obligation to inform their consciences regarding the moral choices they make in life. For Catholics to deliberately refuse to inform their consciences with the teachings of the Church or if they deliberately disobey the moral teaching of the Church, they can sin mortally if the choice is a serious one. But if people sincerely follow their consciences, whether their consciences are well informed or through not fault of their own they are not, they do not sin by acting on them.”

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P., CAF Apologist in response to the question, “Is it wrong for a Catholic to vote for Obama?” forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=723795

I think everything seekerz has written demonstrates that he has a well informed conscience. I would like to think that I do too. One thing is for certain, nothing you or anyone else on this forum have written has put a dent in my conviction that a Romney victory would be a total disaster for this nation and it’s people - so I will continue to fight the long fight for hearts and minds and not try to short circuit the process by resorting to tyranny. That has never worked in the past - we still have heretics, we still have witches, we still have Muslims.
 
seekerz said:
I will take my Church’s teaching over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday. My rights to conscience are mine, not yours. Sorry, if the fear factor doesn’t sway me but the sky was supposed to fall on 11/6/08 if Obama won…🤷
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So you don’t dispute my point. 11% unemployment. staggering UNDERemployment, $6T new debt, gasoline prices doubled. You can’t crash an airplane at 30,000 feet, but we are now at 10,000 feet and heading down. Hey, you feel good about yourself. I mourn for the children who will never smell a rose. No Church teaching could help me rationalize my own facilitation of this. Ah well! 🙂 Rob
 
That’s horrible. It’s funny that someone talked about catholic teachings. How is voting for a Mormon promoting Catholic teaching?

Another thing is that they will now lose their IRS Exempt status, but if they are breaking that rule then it is welldeserved.
 
bellasbane said:
“All people have an obligation to inform their consciences regarding the moral choices they make in life. For Catholics to deliberately refuse to inform their consciences with the teachings of the Church or if they deliberately disobey the moral teaching of the Church, they can sin mortally if the choice is a serious one. But if people sincerely follow their consciences, whether their consciences are well informed or through not fault of their own they are not, they do not sin by acting on them.”

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P., CAF Apologist in response to the question, “Is it wrong for a Catholic to vote for Obama?” forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=723795

I think everything seekerz has written demonstrates that he has a well informed conscience. I would like to think that I do too. One thing is for certain, nothing you or anyone else on this forum have written has put a dent in my conviction that a Romney victory would be a total disaster for this nation and it’s people - so I will continue to fight the long fight for hearts and minds and not try to short circuit the process by resorting to tyranny. That has never worked in the past - we still have heretics, we still have witches, we still have Muslims.
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Indeed, we do.
 
seekerz said:
Nice try. There is one pope and he is not you, so guess what that makes your church?
Click to expand...
Your response makes no sense. You are the one who spoke of “your Church.” The only Church I recognize is the Catholic Church, whose teachings are at odds with what you have posted.
 
LisaA said:
seekerz you are creating your own church. Your position is at odds with every single statement I’ve seen on this subject. Can you please show some actual Church support for your “cafeteria” approach?

I get a daily column from Courageous Priest and thought this was appropriate:

Some will say: “the church has no right in telling me how to vote”.

Bishop Peter Libasci (letter in the link below) is not telling us how to vote, only that we must vote and to be aware that when we vote we must make judgments between politicians and their policy. The Scripture says “as we judge so shall we be judged”. Our Bishop is telling us that we must vote “OUR CONSCIENCE”, but it must be an “INFORMED CONSCIENCE.” An informed conscience asks “what does God have to say about my vote, what does my church teach and why does it teach that”?
To those who say: “the church has no right in telling me how to vote,” I reply that the church has a duty to inform the faithful, instructing them in the Commandments and life in Christ. (See CCC 2246 below)

Any individual who says he can advocate for and enable the practice of abortion and claims that he can still be a Catholic in good standing, has a very serious problem with integrity which that person ignores only at their own peril. I am saying that you need to think and pray very carefully about your vote, because a vote for a candidate who promotes actions or behaviors that are intrinsically evil and gravely sinful makes you morally complicit and places the eternal salvation of your soul in serious jeopardy.

Father Paul Gousse,
Our Lady of the Holy Rosary and St. Leo parish in Rochester, NH

Bishop Peter Libasci Letter of 10-31-12
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Lisa, with all due respect, You can stop trying so hard. Really.

My Church: the Holy Roman Catholic Church which traces its foundation to the Apostle Peter, and to which I adhere in obedience, has told me that I should use my conscience, ponder all issues and then make a decision about political candidates based on the deliberations of my “informed” conscience.

That same Church has NEVER said that I cannot in good conscience vote for a pro-abortion candidate if I find proportional reasons to do so. It will not condemn or excommunicate me for doing so…so it is immaterial if other self-proclaimed judges choose to do so.

I cannot in all good CATHOLIC conscience choose Romney and the beliefs he champions (openly stated and not-so openly stated) over Obama. NEVER - unless he undergoes a radical, true and lasting transformation.
 
LisaA said:
You don’t believe abortion has increased dramatically since Roe? You are disputing this?
Lisa
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You cannot attribute this to Barak Obama, who was 12 years old when Roe was decided. The worse you can say about him is that he is a product of a post “Roe” culture and society. Maybe that SHOULD frighten us, but not because Obama is who he is, but because we have failed to win over two generations of Americans.

On the other hand, Mitt Romney spent most of his political career supporting abortion rights and he is a lot older than Obama. His abortion legacy is much worse and I for one believe his 11th hour conversion is purely political. I would never put my faith in such a man.
 
bellasbane said:
“All people have an obligation to inform their consciences regarding the moral choices they make in life. For Catholics to deliberately refuse to inform their consciences with the teachings of the Church or if they deliberately disobey the moral teaching of the Church, they can sin mortally if the choice is a serious one. But if people sincerely follow their consciences, whether their consciences are well informed or through not fault of their own they are not, they do not sin by acting on them.”

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P., CAF Apologist in response to the question, “Is it wrong for a Catholic to vote for Obama?” forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=723795

I think everything seekerz has written demonstrates that he has a well informed conscience. I would like to think that I do too. One thing is for certain, nothing you or anyone else on this forum have written has put a dent in my conviction that a Romney victory would be a total disaster for this nation and it’s people - so I will continue to fight the long fight for hearts and minds and not try to short circuit the process by resorting to tyranny. That has never worked in the past - we still have heretics, we still have witches, we still have Muslims.
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Agree here. Everything he and fellow republicans have said and done has been geared toward draining all of us. The continuation of the Bush policies of helping the rich get richer. They have stonewalled congress for the last 2 years on purpose and have continually said they will cut programs left and right concerning health care (which he formally agreed with), education, and other things while continuing the aggression towards defense overspending that Bush started which got us in this mess in the first place. And the constant horrible statements about rape and women are just unforgivable. Some of these people are all about greed and beating the commandment about lying to death.
 
bellasbane said:
One thing is for certain, nothing you or anyone else on this forum have written has put a dent in my conviction that a Romney victory would be a total disaster for this nation and it’s people - so I will continue to fight the long fight for hearts and minds and not try to short circuit the process by resorting to tyranny. .
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Tyranny. You used that word early. I guess your definition of tyranny is different than mine. When I think of tyranny, I see prisons and torture of citizens. What I do not think of is restrcting women from having all the sex they want, in any way the want and when the result is a child, simply kill it when it is inconvenient. Choice? No, I do not believe in choice for abortion or any other decision to kill another, even an abortionist. I do not consider this tyranny, but then I also do not believe in people having a free choice to own slaves or to beat their wives when they get out of line.

I guess choice is a matter that hinges on whether you are the one who gets to choose or gets killed, enslaved, beat, etc.
 
rlg94086 said:
Your response makes no sense. You are the one who spoke of “your Church.” The only Church I recognize is the Catholic Church, whose teachings are at odds with what you have posted.
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I am in complete adherence to my Church’s (the Roman Catholic Church led by Pope Benedict) teachings and just had that confirmed this weekend by my parish priest.
 
pnewton said:
Tyranny. You used that word early. I guess your definition of tyranny is different than mine. When I think of tyranny, I see prisons and torture of citizens. What I do not think of is restrcting women from having all the sex they want, in any way the want and when the result is a child, simply kill it when it is inconvenient. Choice? No, I do not believe in choice for abortion or any other decision to kill another, even an abortionist. I do not consider this tyranny, but then I also do not believe in people having a free choice to own slaves or to beat their wives when they get out of line.

I guess choice is a matter that hinges on whether you are the one who gets to choose or gets killed, enslaved, beat, etc.
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👍

That’s well said.

The only tyranny to the DNC is not being able to have sex with anyone you want, where ever you want and then being able to destroy the consequences.
 
seekerz said:
I am in complete adherence to my Church’s (the Roman Catholic Church led by Pope Benedict) teachings and just had that confirmed this weekend by my parish priest.
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Wow. Your parish priest told you voting for a pro-choice candidate is fine. I’m surprised…well, not really, there are a lot of priests who don’t follow the Church, unfortunately.

I am surprised that he told you that you are “in complete adherence to Church teaching.” I’ve never heard a priest say that to anyone. I’m guessing he will fast-track your cause for canonization after you die. 😛
 
LisaA said:
You don’t believe abortion has increased dramatically since Roe? You are disputing this?
Lisa
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I’m asking a simple question. Disputing nothing until I see the stats. But I was thinking of the political strategy regarding abortion SINCE Roe v Wade, not the stats pre vs. post.
 
CrimsonFox said:
Agree here. Everything he and fellow republicans have said and done has been geared toward draining all of us. The continuation of the Bush policies of helping the rich get richer.
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You do know Bush is not running, don’t you?
. And the constant horrible statements about rape and women are just unforgivable.
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You just made a statement about rape and women! 😃 I think you miss the point. I am not in favor of choice for rape or abortion. How is that offensive?
 
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