Bishop responds to Boy Scouts' decision on admission of homosexual members [CWN]

  • Thread starter Thread starter CWN_News
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
zab said:
So let me get this straight (no pun intended)- It is OK for a youth to be openly gay, that is, to affirm that he has an inclination towards being homosexual but is not active (because the rules still apply), but if an adult leader admits that he or she has an inclination or a same sex attraction but is not active, and lets say holds completely to the beliefs of the Catholic Church in this regard, then this person who practices true chastity if forbidden from being a leader? Seems like a clear injustice to me and an opportunity for those instigators to take another step.
Click to expand...
Don’t worry. We will be having a pep rally before the ACLU game that will assure victory if we all get into the spirit.

Hold that line. Hold that line. Push 'em back. Push 'em back. Harder. Harder. Hold that line. Hold that line. Go-o-o-o BOY SCOUTS!
 
I think the good Bishop is a bit confused. Hopefully his statements will not come across as infallible to the impressionable.

Bishop Guglielmone is flat out wrong when he states that “Church teaching is very clear that the homosexual inclination is not sinful and that same-sex attraction is not immoral.”

Actually, the Catechism of the Catholic Church DOES teach that homosexual inclination is inherently disordered:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

**2358 **The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
 
HansTrappist said:
I think the good Bishop is a bit confused. Hopefully his statements will not come across as infallible to the impressionable.

Bishop Guglielmone is flat out wrong when he states that “Church teaching is very clear that the homosexual inclination is not sinful and that same-sex attraction is not immoral.”

Actually, the Catechism of the Catholic Church DOES teach that homosexual inclination is inherently disordered:
Click to expand...
The term objectively disordered doesn’t not mean that same sex attraction is a sin. What it means is that it is a temptation that can lead to sin. All sorts of lusts can lead to sin. We are all sinners and we all have temptations. Even heterosexual Scouts. When something is objectively disordered it means that it cannot be considered “ordered” or a good temptation. It is objectively speaking, a disorder. But it is not a sin. For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm
 
HansTrappist said:
I think the good Bishop is a bit confused. Hopefully his statements will not come across as infallible to the impressionable…
Click to expand...
I was wondering if his statement was accurate, so thanks for providing the quote from the CCC. I believe the bishop is trying to be compassionate and caring for all of the youth. He is also concerned for the many young Catholic boys who are still members of the scouts so at this point, encouraging faithful members to take flight from the BSA doesn’t ***seem to him ***to be the right thing to do. His attitude is more to give the BSA an opportunity to hold that line while admitting that they have already failed to do what they said they would do.

But pastors are concerned for their youth, too, and some do not want to take the chance of a “wait and see” approach when door has already been opened. Then there is the fear of law suites at the first opportunity.
 
wynnejj said:
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. I think the good bishop is showing some clear signs. He is not encouraged … suggesting that he was not please with the decision … would have preferred otherwise. If he is truly channelling the general pulse of the bishops, then those that have come out thinking all is OK with this decision are not in line with the general pulse. Of course, this could be just his reaction only. He’s basically saying that he knows it looks bad and he agrees but, it actually isn’t as bad as it looks.
Click to expand...
Well, I can’t channel the bishop’s thoughts and won’t disagree, however, I am still missing the point of this decision. Scouts who were gay served in the past, now, what? What’s changed? And the instigators have already stated the decision has not gone far enough. I can’t speak for anyone in Church leadership but the instigators have announced they want more.

Peace,
Ed
 
Cat_Herder said:
Wake me up when Christians are allowed to read the Torah in a synagogue.

It is not discrimination to associate among members of your own faith to the exclusion of others. If you’re looking to pick a fight, you won’t get one from me because I have much better things to do. Au revoir.
Click to expand...
Walk away if you want to. However, your comparison is totally invalid. You are proposing an organization that discriminates on the basis of religion as an alternative to an organization that has no religious test whatsoever. And by the way, we’re talking a boys’ activity here, not a house of worship. And your “members of your own faith” comment would have a lot more meaning of the definition of “own faith” wasnt “all of Christianity.”
 
bsroufek said:
I understand the Bishop’s stance, but I believe that letting SSA boys into the BOY scouts is just getting a foot in the door for homosexual practices. Not that boys have sleep overs or anything – never been a boy scout – but openly gay boys is not healthy for our Catholic children.
Click to expand...
I fear this as well but at the same time wouldn’t it be unjust discrimination to prevent boys from joining based on sexual orientation alone. Keep in mind that the Catechism says we can’t allow *unjust *discrimination of homosexuals:
Chastity and homosexuality
Click to expand...
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
**
2358** The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
**
2359** Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Click to expand...
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
 
edwest2 said:
Well, I can’t channel the bishop’s thoughts and won’t disagree, however, I am still missing the point of this decision. Scouts who were gay served in the past, now, what? What’s changed? And the instigators have already stated the decision has not gone far enough. I can’t speak for anyone in Church leadership but the instigators have announced they want more.

Peace,
Ed
Click to expand...
The good bishop is speaking as liaison between the bishops and Catholic scouting. He seems to be speaking in that office, not as an individual. Therefore, I assume he is expressing his impression of the views of the bishops and the NCCS committee. Regardless of whether his comments are personal or representing his role as liaison, his statements clearly suggest that he has concerns about the next step of allowing gay adults. I can’t see how his comments can be read any other way than some fear, uncertainty and doubt about BSA’s resolve not to allow gay adult leaders.
 
edwest2 said:
Well, I can’t channel the bishop’s thoughts and won’t disagree, however, I am still missing the point of this decision. Scouts who were gay served in the past, now, what? What’s changed? And the instigators have already stated the decision has not gone far enough. I can’t speak for anyone in Church leadership but the instigators have announced they want more.

Peace,
Ed
Click to expand...
The decision by the BSA is puzzling. Instead of standing firm at a time when everyone was allowed to participate as long as they abided by the moral code of the BSA, they decided to let gay youth openly identify themselves by their temptations. Can you imagine, the outrage if a 15 year old identified himself as a pedophile (non practicing of course, but having a sexual attraction to children)? I don’t care how outraged anyone gets about this comparison, because it is a valid point.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
Walk away if you want to. However, your comparison is totally invalid. You are proposing an organization that discriminates on the basis of religion as an alternative to an organization that has no religious test whatsoever. And by the way, we’re talking a boys’ activity here, not a house of worship. And your “members of your own faith” comment would have a lot more meaning of the definition of “own faith” wasnt “all of Christianity.”
Click to expand...
You’re on a Catholic board so what do you expect? Second. You’re totally wrong. Discrimination for you means something that does not apply here. If the rich can have exclusive clubs that require members to do this or that or get kicked out, then why can’t we form organizations that are for the education and promotion of our beliefs?

scouting.org/sitecore/content/scoutparents/scouting%20basics/what%20scouting%20is/scout%20oath%20and%20law.aspx

Right now, the Boy Scouts has ceased to exist. It will be openly infiltrated by those who will promote “Not that there’s anything wrong with that.” After all, they can’t use the word propaganda, instead they will “educate” or should I say “reeducate” young minds about right and wrong.

Peace,
Ed
 
I think that that decision was a huge mistake. As for me and my troop, we will leave the boy scouts.
 
gilliam said:
The term objectively disordered doesn’t not mean that same sex attraction is a sin. What it means is that it is a temptation that can lead to sin. All sorts of lusts can lead to sin. We are all sinners and we all have temptations. Even heterosexual Scouts. When something is objectively disordered it means that it cannot be considered “ordered” or a good temptation. It is objectively speaking, a disorder. But it is not a sin. For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm
Click to expand...
I’ll let the Catechism speak for itself.

Same-sex attraction is objectively disordered in the same way that sexual attraction to animals is objectively disordered.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
Walk away if you want to. However, your comparison is totally invalid. You are proposing an organization that discriminates on the basis of religion as an alternative to an organization that has no religious test whatsoever. And by the way, we’re talking a boys’ activity here, not a house of worship. And your “members of your own faith” comment would have a lot more meaning of the definition of “own faith” wasnt “all of Christianity.”
Click to expand...
You mean kind of like choosing between joining Kiwanis and the KofC.

Yes, I can really see how dioceses across the US are abandoning the Knights :rolleyes:
 
HansTrappist said:
I’ll let the Catechism speak for itself.

Same-sex attraction is objectively disordered in the same way that sexual attraction to animals is objectively disordered.
Click to expand...
Correct. But the Church notes that it is possible for a person with SSAD to live a moral life. They are called (like all of us) to a life of chastity and avoidance of near occasions of sin.
 
I am sure if we push these boys who have SSA away from the troop and good role models that they will do just fine with the likes of GLAAD and the school yard bullies :cool:
 
Sonic said:
GLAAD Pushes Boy Scouts to Now Lift Ban on Openly Gay Leaders, Volunteers

christianpost.com/news/glaad-pushes-boy-scouts-to-now-lift-ban-on-openly-gay-scout-leaders-volunteers-96660/

Boy Scouts’ Woes Continue With Assault by Atheists

thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/15526-boy-scouts-woes-continue-with-assault-by-atheists
Click to expand...
Isn’t going to happen. 70% of BSA units are chartered by churches. The BSA is not likely to go in this direction, no matter how many articles people write.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top