Bishop responds to Boy Scouts' decision on admission of homosexual members [CWN]

[fix]

If the concern is that people will see each other in various states of undress in changing areas, I suggest people avoid all such public facilities such as pools, fitness centers, school locker rooms, etc. Matter of fact, I was at a fairly new municipal recreation center that had gang showers in the men’s locker room.

Moreover, the gay Scouts are already here and among us. For them, it’s nothing new to see.

I fail to follow this logic? If this is the position then co-ed locker rooms should be fine.

 

[on_the_hill]

I fail to follow this logic? If this is the position then co-ed locker rooms should be fine.

That’s not the same thing.

What’s the BSA going to do? “Since we changed the policy, we’ll have to refit all the showers because there might be gays in troops.”

What I meant was that there have been gay Scouts in troops from the founding of the BSA. Gang showers didn’t make a difference up until now.

 

[on_the_hill]

Some (many?) camps still have group showers.

The last one I saw was relatively new, so I don’t doubt there are still gang showers.

Frankly, I think gang showers aren’t always a bad thing, from a ‘get comfortable with yourself’ and ‘get over it’ perspective.

 

[fix]

That’s not the same thing.

What’s the BSA going to do? “Since we changed the policy, we’ll have to refit all the showers because there might be gays in troops.”

What I meant was that there have been gay Scouts in troops from the founding of the BSA. Gang showers didn’t make a difference up until now.

Apparently in the past any one who claimed to be “gay” was dismissed. Now that it is open that is different.

Either sexual attraction makes a difference or it does not. Which is it?

How is the male/female issue different?

 

[Brendan]

That’s not the same thing. .

Why not?

As I mentioned above, there have been boys who have peeked into girls lockers before, so wouldn’t it be, as you stated, ‘nothing new to see’.

 

[Momofmyangels]

Frankly, I think gang showers aren’t always a bad thing, from a ‘get comfortable with yourself’ and ‘get over it’ perspective.

I find this thinking appalling. Have we thrown modesty out the window now as well?

 

[fix]

Frankly, I think gang showers aren’t always a bad thing, from a ‘get comfortable with yourself’ and ‘get over it’ perspective.

OK, so that can apply to co-ed showers too.

 

[on_the_hill]

Well, I respectfully disagree that the BSA policy change will have much of a practical effect at the unit level.

I do believe in & support modesty.

I’ll stop responding on this line in the tread because I don’t want the discussion to be locked by the mods, and I can see that’s where this is headed.

 

[fix]

Despite the rhetoric that simply self identifying as “gay” will have no impact on the BSA the truth is it cannot but have a serious moral impact.

Once we start to ask specific questions the answers seem to be it does not matter or it is not a problem. What are these answers based on ? I have no idea because no rationale is given.

We are to believe that the attraction itself as lived out under these circumstances will not matter until the advocates tell us it matters. See how it works?

 

[on_the_hill]

We are to believe that the attraction itself as lived out under these circumstances will not matter until the advocates tell us it matters. See how it works?

But the BSA isn’t creating the attraction. I’m not sure I understand your point.

My feeling on this is essentially that it’s better for us to have the opportunity to show leadership and teach, mentor, and otherwise raise younger generations to be the types of future leaders that we need them to be.

 

[Brendan]

But the BSA isn’t creating the attraction. I’m not sure I understand your point.

My feeling on this is essentially that it’s better for us to have the opportunity to show leadership and teach, mentor, and otherwise raise younger generations to be the types of future leaders that we need them to be.

Correct, and as part of that, we have to teach what the Virtue of Modesty is, and the avoidance of near occasions of sin.

If a boy has SSAD, I agree, he needs good mentorship and guidance. But allowing him to tent and shower with others is not good mentorship. No more so that allowing a boy into a girls shower.

It is a near occasion of sin for one, and a violation of modesty for the others.

 

[Sonic]

What are these answers based on ?

[sign]Viewing The World Through Rose Colored Glasses.[/sign]

 

[Sonic]

Frankly, I think gang showers aren’t always a bad thing, from a ‘get comfortable with yourself’ and ‘get over it’ perspective.

Most guys have always been uncomfortable with gang showers and open facilities. Why do you think there have been so many “soap-on-a-roap” jokes told by men all these years? It’s because they are uncomfortable with such facilities.

I find your opinion unsettling to say the least.

 

[on_the_hill]

If a boy has SSAD, I agree, he needs good mentorship and guidance. But allowing him to tent and shower with others is not good mentorship. No more so that allowing a boy into a girls shower.

How will we know which boy is gay and which isn’t? Let’s say a 14 year old boy is camping with his troop. A week later he tells everyone he’s gay. The week after that the troop goes camping again. He was gay before he “came out.” The only difference would be that other kids in his troop will be uncomfortable around him. So let them avoid tenting with him.

Not sure what SSAD means.

Eesh. I’m getting backed into a corner as being some kind of gay advocate, which I’m not at all, believe me. I’m seeing arguments that need some strengthening, though.

 

[Dawnia]

How will we know which boy is gay and which isn’t? Let’s say a 14 year old boy is camping with his troop. A week later he tells everyone he’s gay. The week after that the troop goes camping again. He was gay before he “came out.” The only difference would be that other kids in his troop will be uncomfortable around him. So let them avoid tenting with him.

Not sure what SSAD means.

Eesh. I’m getting backed into a corner as being some kind of gay advocate, which I’m not at all, believe me. I’m seeing arguments that need some strengthening, though.

If you don’t know…you’re not paying attention.

 

[Brendan]

How will we know which boy is gay and which isn’t?

Let’s say a 14 year old boy is camping with his troop. A week later he tells everyone he’s gay. The week after that the troop goes camping again. He was gay before he “came out.” The only difference would be that other kids in his troop will be uncomfortable around him. So let them avoid tenting with him.

It would not matter if they are comfortable or not with tenting with him, he will tent by himself, in much the same way as if a girl came on the campout, it wouldn’t matter if she was comfortable or not with tenting with a boy, she would be assigned a tent by herself.

Not sure what SSAD means.

Same Sex Attraction Disorder

 

[dcs]

If a boy has SSAD, I agree, he needs good mentorship and guidance.

Not only that, but I wonder if the average youth group has the ability to provide that mentorship and guidance. For example, there are parishes that have legitimate outreach to homosexuals (COURAGE chapters, etc.). But not every parish.

 

[Momofmyangels]

My feeling on this is essentially that it’s better for us to have the opportunity to show leadership and teach, mentor, and otherwise raise younger generations to be the types of future leaders that we need them to be.

I think everyone agrees with this thought. However, exposing children to immorality should not be part of the package.

 

[pnewton]

The bishop’s statement reminds me of the rhetoric of political candidates.

I think the good Bishop is a bit confused. Hopefully his statements will not come across as infallible to the impressionable.

Bishop Guglielmone is flat out wrong when he states that “Church teaching is very clear that the homosexual inclination is not sinful and that same-sex attraction is not immoral.”

That is a lot of hubris, especially since the bishop understands the difference between immorality and disorder. Temptation is not immoral. It is not sinful. I would think that a little more respect should be in order.

 

[pnewton]

And this guy is SUPER dangerous, because everyone will give his words more weight than others because he’s got a blog/he’s a writer.

His attitude is the one that will have us all say, ok, it’s ok, I’ll just stay with scouts till either my son gets his Eagle and I can get the heck out, or I’m confronted with my first gay boy. And people who could all band together now to make a point to BSA will all be persuaded by people like this guy into just letting things go and it’s going to all go down the toilet anyway…but HIS son will have his Eagle so don’t worry about the poor little guy who is just now a Tiger Cub.

Maybe it is just not in his nature to cut and run every time Satan throws an obstacle at us. Maybe he sees the value in staying and fighting for morality. That seems to be the bishop’s stance.