Bishop Robert Carlson - Sioux Falls

[avephilomena]

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And for you to berate a pastoral administrator by calling them “nun pastors” - did you ever stop to think it was because some of you lazy men did not step up to the plate to become priests?
from teri123

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I am offended by this statement. I have been working my way through the seminary and have been blocked at many turns by envious, liberal, and/or gay priests, religious, and laity who gloat in the power they wield over seminarians. I know many men who have not only quit the seminary and their vocation, but also have lost their faith due to these people. For more information see “Good Bye, Good Men” by Michael Rose – it’s contents are hauntingly accurate.
Untener did not ordain priests for many years, holding out until he could ordain women. Rome twisted his arm so he ordained a token number of priests, whose shadow never darkened the doorway of a seminary. Three men in eight years. This is the manner to strangle the faith – the small number and the lack of priestly formation (not to mention the theology gleaned at the Chicago Theological Union).
Pray for Bishop Carlson, but don’t expect immediate changes in the parishes. Priests have free will, just as everyone else, and they may reject Bishop Carlson given the current status quo in Saginaw.
Write Bishop as I have previously posted. He will like to hear from you and has already heard from many in Saginaw. Pray for the spiritual life of your diocese and be a good example through personal sanctity. This is the method that rechristianized Europe, thanks to the English and Irish Benedictines, in the early years of the Church. I think that this is an essential tool in the New Evangelization of our Post-Christian society we live in today.
Sorry for rambling. I hope that this has helped someone.
Pax Christi
Alex

 

[frommi]

*****************
Untener did not ordain priests for many years, holding out until he could ordain women. Rome twisted his arm so he ordained a token number of priests, whose shadow never darkened the doorway of a seminary. Three men in eight years. This is the manner to strangle the faith – the small number and the lack of priestly formation (not to mention the theology gleaned at the Chicago Theological Union).

Again…another false assertion against the former Bishop.

I’m amazed that people actually believe these things.

Let’s be clear.

Bishop Untener did not ordain anyone into the permanent diaconate. We can argue if this was good or bad, but it basically came down to him feeling that men and women were going through the same formation program and in the end, men were ordained and their wives (or other women) were commissioned as lay ministers.

There is no basis for a statement that Bishop Untener was “holding out until he could ordain women”, so that meant he was going to protest by ordaining no men. The Diocese rejected something like one candidate for the priesthood in those years, and it had nothing to do with wishing the guy was a woman.

You honestly believe that any bishop would put the spiritual and liturgical life of his diocese at risk, simply to make a point to Rome?

If you have evidence, I’ll listen to it. But I think you’ve decided that the lack of vocations in Saginaw is due to some conspiracy within the church of Saginaw. You have no right nor any means to prove such a thing.

 

[ekindermann]

BayCityRickL:

Like many, I’d like to “write that letter to the new Bishop.”

I’m not sure that will have so much of an effect, as it might to meet him personally and simply welcome him to the diocese. Introduce yourself as I will, as an “orthodox and faithful” Catholic.

Like he said, “give [him] a chance.” I think he KNOWS what is going on.

As a specialist in canon law, Carlson knows the book. There’s no reason to read it to him. A lot of people are going to come at him like a ball of fire. Let them respectfully meet the new Bishop.

May I suggest we all pray for the Bishop and invoke the Holy Spirit upon him and the Diocese.

Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful
Enkindle in us the fire of Your divine love
Send forth Your Spirit and we shall be re-created
And You shall renew the face of the earth

Oh, God, You renew the hearts of the faithful
By the light of the Holy Spirit
Make us always truly wise
And ever rejoice in Your consolation
Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Thank you for this opprtunity to pray. And it is comforting knowing that he is a canon lawyer. In addition to my letter, which remains 1/2 done - I haven’t been able to get back to it for days, I am planning a homeschool field trip to the Installation in February - the 24th right? Does anyone know what time and if we should arrive extra early? I’ll have 5 children with me so I’ll want to sit where they can see. I am so excited!

On a sort of related note…other than a few other Catholic homeschoolers in my immediate area, do you know what the diocese has made of homeschoolers in the last few years?? I never heard boo from anyone in any parish, never encouraged , but never hassled over the reception of sacraments - of course I worked around some of their religious education programs, since we went to the Gaylord diocese for the last few years, the excuse that we had to drive so far often allowed us to miss the rel ed stuff and just teach them at home. On Confirmation day, my two pupils (my daughter and niece) were the only two out of about 25 to raise their hands and answer correctly the bishop’s questions.
Sorry, I digress into bragging, my point is, and I really have one: Does anyone have any knowledge on the homeschooler realtions with the diocese until now or what Bishop Carlson thinks about homeschooling? Hope that’s not too off topic, Thanks. Beth

 

[BayCityRickL]

Wow…are you ever misguided…when Untener sold the mansion, he specifically put money aside so that his successors would have the option of purchasing a new home. (frommi)

I’m misguided? Well, it was Bishop Untener who told me this in a letter almost 20 years ago. And, no, I didn’t save the letter. I think I wrote him to ask him what he did with the money from the sale of that house, and he told me.

Due to the passage of time and the passing of Bishop Reh, the Florida property may have also been sold and the money reverted to the diocese of Saginaw. That’s entirely plausible and likely.

I was disturbed about Bishop Untener and disturbed in ways that others who have posted here apparently were. But, letter-writing might not be the best first step as Father Todd has pointed out. I think the diocese will be well-piloted by Bishop Carlson and I’d say give him six months or a year and see what emerges. He has to make the rounds, himself.

A local pastor has reported that the attendance figures for last October show a Mass attendence decline by 16% over the last several years in the Diocese (and an 18% decline in his parish, alone).

Bishop Carlson has some obvious problems waiting for him, like the decline in the number of priests, small number of seminarians, and the withering Mass attendance. His presence in the diocese will be felt almost immediately, I am sure, as he addresses these problems and the roots of these problems. And, everyone will love him, too. Maranatha!

 

[stevendmo]

BayCityRickL:

It was a dramatic decision, and he got a lot of attention for it. It was mentioned throughout his career as bishop, and, of course, it was a big deal in obituaries and eulogies. If he didn’t do it for publicity and ego-reasons, he would have done this out of public view. .

I see your point, Rick, but if Bishop Untener had “done this [sold the mansion] out of public view,” wouldn’t people wonder what the heck he did with the money – the diocese’s money? I suspect at least a few folks would have considered such a move suspicious.

BayCityRickL:

Furthermore, no one has touched on the political correctness or incorrectness of the Bishop vacating the East Side of Saginaw. But, I’m sure that implication has not been lost on a lot of people. Saginaw is racially divided. And, now the Bishop, like a lot of white folks and businesses, have deserted the East Side of Saginaw. Tell me that has never occurred to you?.

Again, good point. No one familiar with Saginaw can dispute the racial divisions and de facto segregation that you point to. But I thought I read that Bishop Carlson plans on taking up residence in Saginaw Township (which is still very white, right?). What a bishop does is ultimately more important than where he lives – but let’s not cut down Untener for not spending more side on the east side of the Saginaw River when his successor (a man who seems very popular on this board) is headed for Saginaw Township.

Regards,
stevendmo

 

[chnchris]

MBS1:

Teri 123 said,
"I have been to many churches throughout this Diocese for the past 30 years and I have never once not seen a crucifix (which leads me to believe those of you ranting a very, very select few). "From another site one learns from Loyola Rambler, "We’ll have to meet for mass at the cathedral (St. Mary’s in Saginaw) No crucifix.
I also understand that Blessed Sacrament Parish in Midland does not have a crucifix as well. Those are just a couple to start. Just thought you should know. However, maybe the readers here can enlighten us. If you **do not **have a crucifix on the alter of your church in the Saginaw Diocese, come on down!! Let’s take an informal poll (frankly, I’m more curious than anything else).MBS1

  When we were in MI, Our Lady of Perpetual Help in
  Chesaning had **no crucifix**, but boy did they have a
  huge pipe organ and the organist right by the altar,
  as if he was giving a recital.

 

[chnchris]

frankieg:

hello i am a catholic , and i have been invited to go to a bible study at a non catholic church.(bible church)we will will be studying the book of romans ,one day a week for about 8 weeks.Is this a good idea? thans Frank

No.

 

[chnchris]

ekindermann:

I am planning a homeschool field trip to the Installation in February - the 24th right? Does anyone know what time and if we should arrive extra early? I’ll have 5 children with me so I’ll want to sit where they can see. I am so excited! Thanks. Beth

   Check with your priest about this, at our new bishop's
   ordination you had to have a ticket to get in - each parish
   was allowed only 2.

 

[Jim_B]

chnchris:

No.

Dear Chris, (who was thinking about joining a Protestant study-group)

We love our fellow Christians - even if they interpret Scripture differently. I have a friend who was in your spot and she found it to be very uncomfortable. It is easy to be misled by a bible-study group if there is no reference point (who becomes the “authority” in the group if there is a disagreement?)
Especially when reading Romans> Romans 3:28 is often quoted by non-Catholics to justify why they don’t need the Church.

They feel justified by “faith alone”.
The Catholic Bible (which preceeded Luther by more than 11 centuries) states, “We hold that a man is justified by faith, apart from the works of the law.”
But chances are, the bible used in the bible-study you are referring to will read, “We hold that a man is justified by faith alone.”
SO - why the difference? Martin Luther changed Rom 3:28
The context of Paul writing that letter was over the issue of circumcision. It is found before, during, and after chapter 3 in romans. Paul was telling the non-Jewish converts that they did not need to be circumcised (“the works of the law”) in order to be Christians.
But Luther’s new twist on Rom 3:28 changes the meaning completely. Protestants interpret this to mean they are justified by ‘faith alone’ and do not need the sacraments of Holy Communion (as properly understood to mean the Real Presence), or Confession. This freed Protestants from Church authority and they could start their own branch (Lutheranism).

The Protestant Bible is different from the Catholic Bible because of Luther. Changing Scripture is a serious offense, just look at the last chapter of Rev. and see what John says about those who add or delete from the sacred word. I would be very cautious if I were you about joining a Protestant study group.

God Love You!
Jim B

 

[chnchris]

Jim B:

Dear Chris, (who was thinking about joining a Protestant study-group)
I would be very cautious if I were you about joining a Protestant study group.God Love You!Jim B

  Good advice Jim, but it was Frankieg (Frank) that asked
  about a Protestant Bible study, which i also said he
  should not bother with.

 

[ekindermann]

chnchris:

Check with your priest about this, at our new bishop’s
ordination you had to have a ticket to get in - each parish
was allowed only 2.

Wow! That is ridiculous! Well, I guess in a very populated area…hmmm. Problem is I don’t have a priest to, well…I guess I’ll just call the diocese and directly inquire and go from there. Cathedral should be large enough to accomodate I would think, but what do I know??? Thanks for the reply, I would have just gone! And been very unhappy if we were turned away.

 

[BayCityRickL]

The Catholic Weekly newspaper stated that the Bishop will be installed on Feb 24 in St. Mary’s Cathedral, which holds 800. He plans to visit other cities for “satellite” celebrations. Given that, I’m sure there will be a time and place to visit with him. Haven’t heard yet, but perhaps the installation will be covered on local TV.
Why not write WNEM and WJRT and let them know how you feel about this.

 

[ekindermann]

BayCityRickL:

The Catholic Weekly newspaper stated that the Bishop will be installed on Feb 24 in St. Mary’s Cathedral, which holds 800. He plans to visit other cities for “satellite” celebrations. Given that, I’m sure there will be a time and place to visit with him. Haven’t heard yet, but perhaps the installation will be covered on local TV.
Why not write WNEM and WJRT and let them know how you feel about this.

You know, I was going to reply to you & ask what in the world you think the media would have to do with it, but instead I decided to pop on over to the Saginaw Diocese website, then thought I’d email someone. Well, I couldn’t make heads or tails about which department to email, so I thought I’d just call & get a general voice mail. So what do you know, someone answered the phone in the bishops’ office at nearly 9pm on a Friday eve! She was very nice, I have no clue as to who she was. She told me that it will be jammed and that each parish is indeed only getting three tickets and it is up to each parish as to who gets them and how. So bummer for us, I really wanted my children to see this, but perhaps what you meant Rick was that maybe it would encourage WNEM & WJRT to cover it??? Duh! That’s probably what you were trying to tell me. Sorry, brain is on weekend autopilot.

Anyway, the Bishop will be at (according to this unknown source) St. Mary’s in Bay City (that must be your parish Rick?) on Saturday(Feb. 26th) at 4pm, then at Sacred Heart in Mt. Pleasant on Sunady(Feb. 27th) at 11am. So I guess we’ll be going down to the mountain town from Harrison! I think she said that he will then be at Rite of Election (services?? but not masses) at 3 and 6:30 that Sunday evening at the Cathedral. (That last part is iffy, I stopped taking notes once she gave me the Mt. P info.)

OK, so I’m still excited!!

 

[Jim_B]

chnchris:

Good advice Jim, but it was Frankieg (Frank) that asked
about a Protestant Bible study, which i also said he
should not bother with.

Dear Chris,
Thanks for the correction. OK Frank, so now you’ve heard from both of us. God be with you.

Oremus pro omnia
(let us pray for all),
Jim

 

[frommi]

Great…the Bishop’s first pastoral visit is to St. Mary’s Bay City…talk about a church in the middle of a culture war. The pastor has to stay on the altar for almost all of the closing song to prevent people from leaving the second he leaves the altar.

Not to mention that whole posture issue they have.

By the way…the Rite of Election is a mass at the cathedral where those who are going receive the Easter Sacraments are presented to the to Bishop.

 

[ekindermann]

frommi:

By the way…the Rite of Election is a mass at the cathedral where those who are going receive the Easter Sacraments are presented to the to Bishop.

I am familiar with what the Rite of Election is. Actually, the woman I spoke with made sure to emphasize that these were not masses. I, too expected these would be masses, but she made a point to clarify this.

 

[chnchris]

Shiann:

But everything that a Catholic does at a Mass is a reflection of that internal Faith. Every kneel, every prayer, every offering is a manifestation of the internal Faith…

23 Ways To Identify A Faithful Parish
CRISIS Magazine
January 14, 2005

I do think these points can help you identify a solid parish. Brian Saint-Paul

23 Ways To Identify a Faithful Parish

1. There is at least one daily Mass. Obviously, if a parish shares a pastor with other parishes, this may not always be possible.
2. Confession is offered for a set time… not just “by appointment only.”
3. The tabernacle is inside the main church in a prominent place. It’s always frustrating to have to play “Where’s Jesus?” when you
   walk into a parish for the first time.
4. The church has kneelers. Period.
5. The church doesn’t have a sign in the front that describes itself as a “Catholic Community.” I know, this one seems petty at first, but it tends to be true. If a parish has an objection to the word “church,” that’s a good indication that a larger problem exists. And if that parish magnifies the nonsense with a sign that says something
   like, “An Open, Inclusive Community of Catholic Christians Who Care and Share,” stop, turn around, run.
6. As you enter the church, you see people in the pews in prayer or, at least, reverent silence. If, on the other hand, it looks like
   social time down at the bingo parlor, that’s a bad sign.
7. The Mass is not intentionally altered through the use of inclusive language.
8. The Mass is said according to the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and the instructions of the local bishop. Improvisation is great in jazz. Mass isn’t jazz.
9. The gospel is not being read, nor the homily given, by someone other than a priest or deacon.
10. Latin has pride of place in the Mass. It’s right there in the documents of the Second Vatican Council. That should be reflected in
    the liturgy itself.
11. The bread for the Eucharist isn’t made with added ingredients not allowed by the Church. Honey, for example.
12. The liturgical music focuses on God, not the community. We are there, after all, to worship Him, not ourselves. And there’s never a good reason to sing songs about bridges over troubled waters. You can do that at home, Mr. Garfunkel.
13. Extraordinary ministers do not outnumber the parishioners. There’s a reason, after all, that we refer to them as EXTRAORDINARY
    ministers. We only use them when there are too many people for the priest and deacon to handle.
14. If you’re able to find the mission statement of the parish (it’s often carried in the bulletin), make sure it says something about fidelity to the Magisterium of the Church.
15. And while you’re thumbing through the bulletin, see if there are other good groups there, like the Knights of Columbus, Legion of
    Mary, St. Vincent de Paul, and Holy Name Society. A faithful Bible study group is also a great sign.
16. The parish offers some form of Eucharistic adoration.
17. The parish has an active Pro-Life ministry, as well as a ministry that cares for the poor.
18. The priest wears his collar. Now, obviously, if you see your local pastor jogging one morning, he’s not going to be wearing his clericals. But a priest should generally look the part. It’s an important witness to the secular world and a sign that he recognizes the great value of his own vocation.
19. The pastor isn’t afraid to preach on the tough issues: abortion, divorce, contraception, cloning, etc. That’s not to say that every homily should cover those topics. But a priest should truly believe the Church’s teaching and defend them without pause.
20. The parish’s marriage preparation program includes instruction in Natural Family Planning (NFP). And if someone involved in the
    program describes NFP as “the rhythm method,” go immediately limp and drop to the ground. With luck, he’ll think you passed out and will
    take you to the emergency room, far, far away from that parish.
21. The church has a vibrant religious education program for both children and adults based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
    You might also try to find out who’s involved in the program and where they received their own formation.
22. The church’s Website doesn’t link to dissident groups like Call to Action, Voice of the Faithful, or Catholics for a Free Choice.

And finally…

1. If there’s a literature rack in the church, look at the publications the parish is carrying. Dissident magazines or newspapers tend to go hand in hand with a dissident parish. On the other hand, should you see a copy of Crisis in the rack, join that parish. The pastor is clearly a man of great taste and refinement.

 

[frommi]

ekindermann:

I am familiar with what the Rite of Election is. Actually, the woman I spoke with made sure to emphasize that these were not masses. I, too expected these would be masses, but she made a point to clarify this.

I think it can be done both ways (I’d have to dig out my Rite of Christian Initation for Adults…and I don’t have to do that until the Easter vigil).

Perhaps it’s just a way not to add two more lengthy celebrations to what will already be quite a weekend (Saginaw hasn’t had an installation in 24…almost 25 years).

 

[saggal]

The reason that Rite of Election is not a Mass here is because catechumens and candidates cannot fully participate in the Mass yet, so it seems rude to invite them, but not let them fully in, so to speak.

 

[reneewood]

frankieg:

hello i am a catholic , and i have been invited to go to a bible study at a non catholic church.(bible church)we will will be studying the book of romans ,one day a week for about 8 weeks.Is this a good idea? thans Frank

You can take a bible study for free on the Book of Romans from Scott Hahn on line – personally or in a group. It is through Catholic Exchange or faster to find it: scotthahn.com