Bishop Robert Carlson - Sioux Falls

[Scapular]

Fast_ed75:

Using ordinary bread helps to shift the focus from the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist – “body, blood, soul and divinity” – to other “modes of presence”, such as Christ’s presence in the gathered community and the “shared meal” as a sign of unity.

Fast_ed75,

Brilliant. I heard this heterodoxy just the other day by some lay minister at St. Brigid in Midland, MI.

I don’t know how to address this. While I do believe in the Body and the Word as sources of Christ’s presence among us, it seems that only the Devil himself would enjoy the diminution of the Eucharistic Sacrafice. What greater evil could there be?

I believe we must fight adamantly for the sanctity of the Eucharistic Sacrifice.

Frightened,
Scapular

 

[Illini]

BayCityRickL:

Hey, Illini, I lived in DuPage County for 13 years, not long ago. Hi, neighbor.

 How about that! Hope you're enjoying the Great Lakes State. The Orange and Blue enjoyed their trip to East Lansing this week. :D

Sorry, I was being ironic there, about being a homilist. I thoroughly understand ordination and agree with you. We hear all that scripture of St. Paul about wives and husbands being submissive to one another. In the extension of this idea, I love to submit to a priest who is submissive to the Magisterium of the Church and to the Vicar of Christ.

 I could tell you were being ironic; it crystallized the reasoning behind allowing only the Magesterium, the representatives of Christ, to give the Homily at Mass.

-Illini

 

[Illini]

Scapular:

FromMI,

Why would anyone “wait” to see what was already published in 2002 GIRM and other very clear documents like Redemptionis Sacramentum?

 If I remember correctly, there really were not many changes between the 2002 GIRM and its predecessor. The only one I can think of is standing at the "May the Lord accept this sacrifice . . ." There was nothing new in *RS* either. Maybe the difference is that today more bishops are following Rome's lead and insisting that the Missal be followed this time. Thank you Pope John Paul!

-Illini

 

[BayCityRickL]

Three weeks until Bishop Bob and the three hounds.

We shall see what we shall see. May God bless him and favor us.

 

[system]

BayCityRickL:

Three weeks until Bishop Bob and the three hounds.

We shall see what we shall see. May God bless him and favor us.

I happen to be from the eastern diocese of the South Dakota, that diocese our beloved Bishop Robert Carlson is leaving to become your Bishop upon his installation the 24th. I have also followed this thread from it’s inception…Some of the things I’ve read are just simply incredible to me…the worst I guess are those that have impugned the character of Bishop Carlson, ie, being called a lair, etc., this from people who do not even know this blessed man. From the outset I’ve wanted to respond to this tread by saying that, to the dedicated orthodox Catholics of the diocese of Saginaw, you should be aware that you are experiencing a living miracle. To those Catholics that choose to refer to Bishop Robert Carlson as Bishop Bob, his dogs as hounds, or to any person or grops of person’s whose mindset is in opposition to the teaching of the Church’s tradition, to Scripture or to her Magisterium, you will quickly find, this Bishop will not be duped in any way, shape or form.

 

[Pax2u]

Things have run rampant in the Saginaw Diocese for so long that Bishop Carlson will definitely have many challenges ahead of him–but I think most on this thread are eagerly awaiting the positive changes he will bring. God bless him!

 

[StubbleSpark]

Yikes!

I went to mass in Michigan ONCE in my whole life about a year a year ago. It was in Vicksburg (South of Kalamazoo). One mass and I heard from the parishoners there that things “up north” were really bad.

You guys get some prayer-action tonight! That is worse than it is here in hedonistic Hawaii!

ONE mass! And now here I am a year later and half a world away getting an eyeful! I am speechless at these abuses.

God save the new Bishop!

 

[Flower]

I find it interesting that in two pages of this web site, I have seen only one response that might “impugn” Bishop Carlson and yet many of the rest of the comments on the site rake Bishop Untener and his leadership over the coals and you obviously didn’t feel these important enough to respond to. The so called “liberal” Catholics will welcome Bishop Carlson to this diocese the same as we did Bishop Untener - well, not quite the same. We were allowed to attend Bishop Untener’s ordination as a bishop. I have read several uncharitable comments on this site which I discovered by accident. If the “majority” of the catholics in the Saginaw diocese knew this site existed, they would be appalled at what they read. I feel that most of us are not pre-judging and we also don’t feel that Bishop Carlson will be coming into a mess that was left behind. Love is not in bread recipes and all the things that some people seem to be arguing about. It is in how we treat each other and I am sure Bishop Carlson will be treated with the utmost respect and loved in the same way that most of us loved Bishop Ken.
Irishsh:

I happen to be from the eastern diocese of the South Dakota, that diocese our beloved Bishop Robert Carlson is leaving to become your Bishop upon his installation the 24th. I have also followed this thread from it’s inception…Some of the things I’ve read are just simply incredible to me…the worst I guess are those that have impugned the character of Bishop Carlson, ie, being called a lair, etc., this from people who do not even know this blessed man. From the outset I’ve wanted to respond to this tread by saying that, to the dedicated orthodox Catholics of the diocese of Saginaw, you should be aware that you are experiencing a living miracle. To those Catholics that choose to refer to Bishop Robert Carlson as Bishop Bob, his dogs as hounds, or to any person or grops of person’s whose mindset is in opposition to the teaching of the Church’s tradition, to Scripture or to her Magisterium, you will quickly find, this Bishop will not be duped in any way, shape or form.

 

[ekindermann]

Flower:

I find it interesting that in two pages of this web site, I have seen only one response that might “impugn” Bishop Carlson and yet many of the rest of the comments on the site rake Bishop Untener and his leadership over the coals and you obviously didn’t feel these important enough to respond to.
Well, Flower, maybe I can “respond” and help you to “understand”…The point of the thread is clear at the outset, if you will look back at the original post started by MBS1 which begins:
I am from the diocese of Saginaw, Mi., which had notoriously been very liberal under former Bishop Ken Untener (who passed away earlier this year). Liturical abuse was rampant.
The point of the discussion here is to delve into the possibilities for change from what most view as disobedience to transform this diocese into what it could/should be: one of faithful, obedient Catholics, who are faithful to the Church of Jesus Christ and to the Holy Father and Magisterium. To discuss what is wrong (not a popular word with Untener supporters) and to discuss how/when/if these things will be corrected. Because, yes, Flower, there is WRONG and there is RIGHT.
The so called “liberal” Catholics will welcome Bishop Carlson to this diocese the same as we did Bishop Untener - well, not quite the same. We were allowed to attend Bishop Untener’s ordination as a bishop.
I was very disappointed when I learned that I and my children could not witness the installation, however apparently the seating in the cathedral is not enough - Someone in this forum, or a related one, can’t find it right now, but I know I just read it a few days ago, said that seating was eliminated when Bishop Untener remodeled the Cathedral! Furthermore, perhaps humility is motivating our new bishop-elect? To rent out (or secure somehow) a stadium for your flock to witness your installation is somehow a little grandiose or I don’t know, in some way it says, “I’m a superstar, come and see me.” Call me uncharitable yet again, but I’m sure that’s just my take on it.
I have read several uncharitable comments on this site which I discovered by accident. If the “majority” of the catholics in the Saginaw diocese knew this site existed, they would be appalled at what they read.
Most would be appalled at the entire topic - Perhaps that is because they are so unaware of how out of sinc their diocese has become. My dear friends right in the parish we were forced to leave are absolutely clueless that: there is a recipe for the vread and about things like confession BEFORE First Communion. They have been, as is said in the educational world, “Dumbed Down”. They don’t even KNOW that they don’t KNOW!So yes, they would probably be appalled, but not for the reason you state.
I feel that most of us are not pre-judging
Heavens NO! “judge”? No, that’s not allowed, is it?
and we also don’t feel that Bishop Carlson will be coming into a mess that was left behind.
Its not about your feelings, dear, or even my feelings, its about what is right, correct and truthful, and what is wrong, disobedient and lies.
Love is not in bread recipes and all the things that some people seem to be arguing about.
AAARRRGGGHHH!!! :banghead: Ok, now I understand your name of “Flower”, is it “Flower child” as in “all we need is love”, like in the 70’s? Dear Flower, I’m sorry, I’m beginning to slip into uncharitability again, but you must realize that you cannot throw out the “Uncharitable” charge just because someone tells you that something is WRONG (See, its that word again!) Wrong is wrong, its not pretty and you can’t make it look pretty. Bishop Untener may have done many things right, but he did many things wrong and that’s why we are haviong this discussion. To quote BayCityRick from another thread entitled “Remembering Bishop Untener” Also, the claims that comments in these forums are given with a lack of charity is simply a last resort. It is love and charity itself that motivates me to speak out, again and again, about the liberals who like to play with words.
It is in how we treat each other and I am sure Bishop Carlson will be treated with the utmost respect and loved in the same way that most of us loved Bishop Ken.
Well, I hope that is true, and I don’t think that anyone here suggested that he wouldn’t be treated that way. However, from what I understand about him, he’ll do what is RIGHT, no matter how he’s treated or feels. (That obedience thing, you know?)

 

[bknebel]

I am from the Diocese of Sioux Falls and a former seminarian under Bishop Carlson. I will guarantee you Saginaw-ites of one thing- the cleaning out of heretics!

I sure hope you are ready for a realignment of priests and parishioners. I know Bishop won’t maybe immediately start swinging the stick, but it will come.

For those of you thinking that its going to be a battle, you are right. May God win righteously!

I pray for all of you that you will be able to come back to the full faith and cut out illicitness and for those of you that are orthodox, that you will be pleasantly surprised.

I have been throwing back and forth ideas of re-entering the seminary, and I have half a mind to come study for Saginaw just because Bishop Carlson is there!

Pray for him and for the Vocations to come to your diocese!

He’s a good bishop. Just give him a chance!

 

[ekindermann]

Oh, bknebel, what HOPE you inspire. Thank you so much! I am actually afraid to hope at times, it can be so discouraging. But then what does that say about my ability to keep the faith and trust in Jesus when the times get hard, which we have been told they will. I can battle the outside worldly forces, but I need my church to help me. I so long for a priest (and others) that I can talk to who … well, you get the picture.

Hey, bknebel! the church needs you, we need you, don’t ignore that call! My children need you, please come! Come to Central Michigan! Its beautiful here AND we’re getting a great bishop! Yeah God!
I’ll be praying for you!

 

[avephilomena]

BayCityRickL:

Three weeks until Bishop Bob and the three hounds.

We shall see what we shall see. May God bless him and favor us.

I’m sorry for not following well. Who are the “three hounds?” Thanks for your help.
Pax
Alex

 

[BayCityRickL]

Irishsh:

To those Catholics that choose to refer to Bishop Robert Carlson as Bishop Bob, his dogs as hounds, or to any person or grops of person’s whose mindset is in opposition to the teaching of the Church’s tradition, to Scripture or to her Magisterium, you will quickly find, this Bishop will not be duped in any way, shape or form.

I referred to Bishop Carlson as Bishop Bob in a sort of ironic reference to the “legacy” of Bishop Kenneth Untener, who usually simply signed his name as Ken. Untener was ordained and installed in a civic arena, where hockey is played. He quipped that that was the longest he had been in a hockey rink without throwing a punch – real inspirational, no? The legacy of Bishop Untener is to refer to everybody by their first names, and I do so only to emphasize one of the small ways that Untener was using to make a more horizontal structure of the Church.

As a resident of the Diocese of Saginaw, I can say that there is a cultural war going on here as you can tell. I thoroughly expect and hope that Bishop Carlson will restore the real Catholic Church to Saginaw and will be Bishop of all, instead of serving just a faithful and devoted inner circle. Even at his funeral, the bishop eulogizing him said that his critics did not understand him. Oh? He had 25 years to reconcile himself to them, bring them in, and make them understand, but, gosh, he didn’t. I think he offended many people by discarding people who did not “understand” – you know, a diocese within a diocese.

By all means, let Bishop Carlson be Bishop Carlson. How beautiful are the feet of him that brings glad tidings and says unto Zion, Thy God reigns.

 

[Pax2u]

Flower:

If the “majority” of the catholics in the Saginaw diocese knew this site existed, they would be appalled at what they read. I feel that most of us are not pre-judging and we also don’t feel that Bishop Carlson will be coming into a mess that was left behind.

I don’t think any of the comments that speak negatively about things we KNOW occur in the Saginaw diocese are meant to be uncharitable–on the contrary, those who take the time to read this thread and post are full of love for the Church. I believe every person posting prays for the repose of the soul of Bishop Untener. That does not mean we (many who have experienced it FIRST HAND) have to shut our eyes and pretend wrongdoing was/is not going on in the diocese. We aren’t saying that there was nothing good going on–obviously that is not true. But we have a right–and a responsibility to speak truth if we see that something else is being passed off as truth.

Obviously you don’t think the new Bishop is walking into a mess–I disagree with you, but hope I wrong and he receives resounding, loving support from all.

 

[MBS1]

Flower says:

“Love is not in bread recipes and all the things that some people seem to be arguing about.”

Do you realize that under the guidance of the Holy Spirit the Church has determined that the bread of the Eucharist should be the same as the last supper - wheat and water only?

From Chapter III of *Redemptionis Sacramentum *we read:
THE PROPER CELEBRATION OF MASS

1. The Matter of the Most Holy Eucharist

[48.] The bread used in the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharistic Sacrifice must be unleavened, purely of wheat, and recently made so that there is no danger of decomposition.[123] It follows therefore that bread made from another substance, even if it is grain, or if it is mixed with another substance different from wheat to such an extent that it would not commonly be considered wheat bread, does not constitute valid matter for confecting the Sacrifice and the Eucharistic Sacrament.[124] It is a grave abuse to introduce other substances, such as fruit or sugar or honey, into the bread for confecting the Eucharist. Hosts should obviously be made by those who are not only distinguished by their integrity, but also skilled in making them and furnished with suitable tools.

Do you realize that if the bread in ilicit, than it cannot be consecrated to the body of Christ,?

Do you realize that if this is true (and the above source and every other source I have asked about it says it is), than thousands of Catholics in the Diocese of Saginaw are not getting the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist? (Unless they take the wine). They are simply getting bread, no more, no less.
Flower, our Church feels that “bread recipes” are important enough to be specific about what can and cannot be used - to preserve what can truly be consecrated, and what can not. Do you really think it is too much to ask that our Eucharistic celebration is valid? Is it wrong to fight for His Real Presence with all our heart?

I hope you will someday see why this is such an important issue in this diocese. Peace and God Bless, MBS1

 

[zaradawn2]

I found this thread looking for info on our new bishop and I sure learned a lot. First may I say that I am very excited to hear of Bishop Carlson! I welcome him with open arms! I must also say that Bishop Ken did do some wonderful things in spite of all our current problems. I am a recent convert (from self satisfying nothingness) and I fell head over heels for the Catholic Church. I was amazed by the idea of a universal church that would be the same wherever I went. This is my biggest problem with the current status is the Saginaw area. The things that throw me off and leave me distracted at church are all listed in the previous posts. I thought I was the only one that noticed or cared that in Rosebosh the woman saying half of the liturgical prayers, saying the homily, standing next to the priest during the consecration, and even last weekend baptised a baby isn’t even a nun but a widow with adult children that’s an administrator of some sort. I’ve been told that this was a direct desire of Bishop Utner’s. I went through a period of knowing that I shouldn’t think ill of a bishop but having severe issues with the way he did things (he wouldn’t let my inlaws teach NFP in Mt. Pleasant although certified instructors). Then before the situation could get the better of me I was supprised to see him giving the homily that Sunday and his sermon was about the way he handles things as a bishop and that he needed our prayers as a whole and individually that he may follow the will of God and not his own. Then I realized that he was my brother, human and beautiful.

 

[FatherTodd]

bknebel:

I am from the Diocese of Sioux Falls and a former seminarian under Bishop Carlson. I will guarantee you Saginaw-ites of one thing- the cleaning out of heretics!

I sure hope you are ready for a realignment of priests and parishioners. I know Bishop won’t maybe immediately start swinging the stick, but it will come.

For those of you thinking that its going to be a battle, you are right. May God win righteously!

I pray for all of you that you will be able to come back to the full faith and cut out illicitness and for those of you that are orthodox, that you will be pleasantly surprised.

I have been throwing back and forth ideas of re-entering the seminary, and I have half a mind to come study for Saginaw just because Bishop Carlson is there!

Pray for him and for the Vocations to come to your diocese!

He’s a good bishop. Just give him a chance!

Basil,
Bishop Carlson would be the first to tell you that the most natural place to study is your home diocese.

Fr. Todd

 

[Pax2u]

zaradawn2:

I thought I was the only one that noticed or cared that in Rosebosh the woman saying half of the liturgical prayers, saying the homily, standing next to the priest during the consecration, and even last weekend baptised a baby isn’t even a nun but a widow with adult children that’s an administrator of some sort.

Please say this didn’t really happen…a woman administrator baptized a baby? I’m not a theologian, but isn’t that only valid in case of a life-threatening emergency?

 

[zaradawn2]

I attended mass at 10:30 Sunday morning two weeks ago at St. Henry’s in Rosebush. I don’t know the legality of what happened either, I just know what I saw. Lorraine is the administrator and she held this baby over a large bowl of Holy Water and dipped her in three times as she had invited the whole community to recite the words of baptism. Father Don, who is more than capable, stood over her shoulder and watched. I couldn’t see well enough to see who annointed her because everyone was standing and moving around to get their own peek. I enjoy going to St. Henry’s because Father Don does the mass and my husband and I recieved the sacrement of marraige from him almost four years ago. He is such a wonderful priest that when I asked how he can let this go on, he grinned and said his hands were tied. I assume his “lesser of two evils” in this circumstance would be to do what he can until someone of greater power comes to fix it than to have the church close its doors because it doesn’t have a full time priest. There is a similar situation in Coleman, but their administrator is a nun and their preist is retired. As well I attended the Ash Wednesday service there last night and for those who were curious, I couldn’t find a crucifix, only a risen Christ.

 

[FatherTodd]

zaradawn2:

I attended mass at 10:30 Sunday morning two weeks ago at St. Henry’s in Rosebush. I don’t know the legality of what happened either, I just know what I saw. Lorraine is the administrator and she held this baby over a large bowl of Holy Water and dipped her in three times as she had invited the whole community to recite the words of baptism. Father Don, who is more than capable, stood over her shoulder and watched. I couldn’t see well enough to see who annointed her because everyone was standing and moving around to get their own peek. I enjoy going to St. Henry’s because Father Don does the mass and my husband and I recieved the sacrement of marraige from him almost four years ago. He is such a wonderful priest that when I asked how he can let this go on, he grinned and said his hands were tied. I assume his “lesser of two evils” in this circumstance would be to do what he can until someone of greater power comes to fix it than to have the church close its doors because it doesn’t have a full time priest. There is a similar situation in Coleman, but their administrator is a nun and their preist is retired. As well I attended the Ash Wednesday service there last night and for those who were curious, I couldn’t find a crucifix, only a risen Christ.

Can you tell me what words they had you recite? Was it I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

Or was it something else?