Bishop Robert Carlson - Sioux Falls

[Anna_Elizabeth]

FatherTodd:

To say God is a male is incorrect. God has no gender per se. But to refer to God in the feminine also is incorrect. Both are at best heterodox at worst pagan.

Dear Father,

I hope my question has not been asked before only to have been carelessly missed by me.

I do not understand how to refer to God as male can “at best be heterodox or at worst pagan,” when we have always been told to refer to Him as “Abba, our Father.” Even Our Lord taught us to pray saying, “Our Father.”

In Mark, Our Lord himself calls upon His Father to remove the cup.

What sort of Abba or Father is genderless, not to say feminine?



God bless,

Anna

 

[Shiann]

Anna Elizabeth:

Dear Father,

I hope my question has not been asked before only to have been carelessly missed by me.

I do not understand how to refer to God as male can “at best be heterodox or at worst pagan,” when we have always been told to refer to Him as “Abba, our Father.” Even Our Lord taught us to pray saying, “Our Father.”

In Mark, Our Lord himself calls upon His Father to remove the cup.

What sort of Abba or Father is genderless, not to say feminine?



God bless,

Anna

Father Todd:

When a masculine pronount is used to describe God it isn’t describing God’s gender but rather a relationship to us.

In other words, God is our provider, our protector, and our creator. The relationship we have with God is similar to the relationship a child has with a loving and caring father. But it is obviously so much more at the same time.

God transcends gender. God doesn’t need or want the “label” of masculine or feminine. “I am who am.” (Exodus 3:14) God just IS.

I don’t think Father Todd was saying it was heretical to refer to God as our Father or as “He” in prayer. But was just reminding us of the fact that God truly is everything to us- we need not try to gender “Him”. And to try to gender Him beyond the relationship of we have with Him as Father/Child is the error.

 

[FatherTodd]

Anna Elizabeth:

Dear Father,

I hope my question has not been asked before only to have been carelessly missed by me.

I do not understand how to refer to God as male can “at best be heterodox or at worst pagan,” when we have always been told to refer to Him as “Abba, our Father.” Even Our Lord taught us to pray saying, “Our Father.”

In Mark, Our Lord himself calls upon His Father to remove the cup.

What sort of Abba or Father is genderless, not to say feminine?

It isn’t improper to use Masculine pronouns but we can’t say God is a male. God has no body.

The pagan part would come in when people slip into the Gaia goddess stuff. I probably shouldn’t have widended the scope.

Suffice it to say God has no gender. We should stick with what the church teaches in how to refer to him.



God bless,

Anna

 

[psalm90]

Shiann:

I don’t think Father Todd was saying it was heretical to refer to God as our Father or as “He” in prayer. But was just reminding us of the fact that God truly is everything to us- we need not try to gender “Him”. And to try to gender Him beyond the relationship of we have with Him as Father/Child is the error.

I worked with a Baptist gentleman who graduated from Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. We had many conversations about the Bible. He was always trying to make end runs around me, strangely, even when I agreed with him.

But, he liked to keep a certain rule in mind, he told me, and that was to always be agreeing with what it says in the Bible. I think every Catholic ought to be able to agree with that statement, and, therefore, to be able to pray to God our Father.

God created gender and He declared that it was good. Judeo-Christian beliefs are somehow trumped by gender? That’s not Christianity, folks.

We should not let feminism, or over-reactions to feminism, unplug our faith, beliefs, and tradition.

 

[Shiann]

psalm90:

I worked with a Baptist gentleman who graduated from Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. We had many conversations about the Bible. He was always trying to make end runs around me, strangely, even when I agreed with him.

But, he liked to keep a certain rule in mind, he told me, and that was to always be agreeing with what it says in the Bible. I think every Catholic ought to be able to agree with that statement, and, therefore, to be able to pray to God our Father.

God created gender and He declared that it was good. Judeo-Christian beliefs are somehow trumped by gender? That’s not Christianity, folks.

We should not let feminism, or over-reactions to feminism, unplug our faith, beliefs, and tradition.

Let’s get back to chatting about Bishop Carlson and his calling to the Saginaw Diocese.

 

[FatherTodd]

Bishop Carlson officially left Sioux Falls this morning and has begun the commute to Saginaw. It was tough seeing him go even though I will see him at the installation next week.

He is a great man and I would ask your prayers for him as well as for our diocese. I hope the Holy Father is as kind to us as he was to Saginaw.

 

[ekindermann]

FatherTodd:

Bishop Carlson officially left Sioux Falls this morning and has begun the commute to Saginaw. It was tough seeing him go even though I will see him at the installation next week.
He is a great man and I would ask your prayers for him as well as for our diocese. I hope the Holy Father is as kind to us as he was to Saginaw.

Fr. Todd, Please know that you, too have been a blessing to us on this board. I wish I could meet you at the installation, but it doesn’t look like we can be there. Unless I get the courage to just show up and hope to get in. But at any rate, we will be praying for your diocese. I decided to mail my letter to him at both locations, just to make sure he’ll get it. I hope he gets a chuckle out of that. Beth

 

[singerlady]

Beth, as much as I know you want to be at the installation, I wouldn’t advise showing up and hoping to get in. Every seat in the Cathedral has been accounted for. They are being very, very strict with the seating. Even the choir is 3 times the size it usually is. People are being asked to carpool because parking is also going to be a big issue.

 

[ekindermann]

singerlady:

Beth, as much as I know you want to be at the installation, I wouldn’t advise showing up and hoping to get in. Every seat in the Cathedral has been accounted for. They are being very, very strict with the seating. Even the choir is 3 times the size it usually is. People are being asked to carpool because parking is also going to be a big issue.

Thank you, that seals that.I would only do it if I thought there was a good chance. I’ll be satisfied with what God allows. Meeting Bishop Carlson in Mt. Pleasant will be just fine. Thanks so much for the heads up.

However,if anyone gets 6 seats they won’t use…we can plan to attend at the drop of a hat! :tiphat:

(the pleasures of homeschooling fieldtrips!)

Beth

 

[singerlady]

Beth, I’m thinking that you’ll get a better chance to actually meet the new bishop in Mt. Pleasant, anyway. Saginaw still being what it is, it will most likely be a zoo on the 24th. Are you near Mt. Pleasant? Are the 5 you are homeschooling all yours? My hat is off to you. My sister is homeschooling her 4 kids and they are the sweetest little bunch you will ever see.

It will be interesting to see what transpires in the the diocese over the next year. Many of us have been praying about the situation for a long time. I think there are many more moderates and conservatives here than people realize. Many people are not aware of just how bad some of the abuses are. “I don’t think Jesus cares what the recipe for the bread is, etc.” “Does is really matter if we sing the doxology?” “We need to get past Good Friday - we don’t need a crucifix in the sanctuary - a risen Christ or plain cross will do.” Some of us just get tired of beating our heads against the wall - particularly when there is no back up from the pastor. I have seriously considered leaving the church, but this is where I feel I am called to be.

Anne

 

[frommi]

FatherTodd:

Bishop Carlson officially left Sioux Falls this morning and has begun the commute to Saginaw. It was tough seeing him go even though I will see him at the installation next week.

He is a great man and I would ask your prayers for him as well as for our diocese. I hope the Holy Father is as kind to us as he was to Saginaw.

At times like these, I think it’s kind of good to step back and look at the ‘grace’ of the process of shepherds being called to lead a particular flock.

Bishop Untener ministered in Saginaw for nearly 24 years, and now my hometown is being sent a new bishop. I really believe he’ll find a very welcoming community that is happy to have a leader. My most fervent prayer is that no one on other side of some of these debates use his installation as some kind of opportunity to highlight an agenda.

 

[singerlady]

My hope is that Bishop Carlson’s installation will be a prayerful event. My hope is the NEITHER side will use this to highlight an agenda. (For some reason I am vividly remembering a friend’s ordination and the picketers who gathered outside - talk about an agenda)

 

[frommi]

singerlady:

My hope is that Bishop Carlson’s installation will be a prayerful event. My hope is the NEITHER side will use this to highlight an agenda. (For some reason I am vividly remembering a friend’s ordination and the picketers who gathered outside - talk about an agenda)

Unfortunately, you cave 700 people inside praying, and the news cameras will focus on the 5 yahoos with signs calling the people inside heretics.

 

[FatherTodd]

Beth,
I am the Chaplain appointed by Bishop Carlson for the Home Schoolers in Sioux Falls. I love home schooling.

Anne,
In good times and in bad the Church is still the Church Christ founded. I encouarge you to offer up any suffering you have experienced for Bishop Carlson.

 

[ekindermann]

singerlady:

Beth, I’m thinking that you’ll get a better chance to actually meet the new bishop in Mt. Pleasant, anyway. Saginaw still being what it is, it will most likely be a zoo on the 24th. Are you near Mt. Pleasant? Are the 5 you are homeschooling all yours? My hat is off to you. My sister is homeschooling her 4 kids and they are the sweetest little bunch you will ever see.

Thanks, Yes we’re in Harrison, just about 30 minutes north from Mt. P. Three are mine, two are my nieces.

Some of us just get tired of beating our heads against the wall - particularly when there is no back up from the pastor.

Please - know what you mean. I have permanent bumps from the head banging:banghead: But hey, as my niece so adeptly pointed out to me this weekend after she was reprimanded in the communion line by the EM for genuflecting before receiving Jesus, “Isn’t that the persecution, Aunt Beth?”

I have seriously considered leaving the church, but this is where I feel I am called to be.

Never a choice. You would be cutting yourself off from His Graces through the Sacraments - The Catholic Church is where we are all called to be.

Anne

 

[ekindermann]

FatherTodd:

Beth,
I am the Chaplain appointed by Bishop Carlson for the Home Schoolers in Sioux Falls. I love home schooling.

Sure, now I really want to meet you! How long have you been involved in homeschooling, what do you see are the biggest concerns or issues facing homeschoolers? Any advice or opinions to share? Off the topic I know. thanks

 

[singerlady]

Beth, did the EM reprimand your niece during Communion? Or did the EM seek her out after Mass. Either way, sheeeeshhhhhh!!!

 

[Illini]

Perhaps a good start for the new bishop would be to re-establish the permanent diaconate in Saginaw. With a solid program, he could increase the ranks of the clergy with men he trains from the beginning.

 Any folks from Saginaw have thoughts on this?

-Illini

 

[saggal]

I’d settle for not being mocked when I cite basic doctrine, actually.

Anyway, yes, many of us here are hoping Bishop Carlson will re-establish the diaconate here. Of course, he will meet with resistance from those who will cite Bishop Untener’s “it’s not fair to elevate men but not women” party line.

It’s really amazing with these folks. All they keep talking about is how “reassuring” it is that Bishop Carlson has a reputation for listening to his flock, because perhaps that means he won’t make the changes many of us anticipate.

I’m already planning weekly visits to the confessional to receive my penance for gloating over their frustration when things don’t go their way.

 

[singerlady]

Illini:

Perhaps a good start for the new bishop would be to re-establish the permanent diaconate in Saginaw. With a solid program, he could increase the ranks of the clergy with men he trains from the beginning.

Any folks from Saginaw have thoughts on this?

-Illini

I wondered about this and was told that there is no permanent deaconate in Sioux Falls. Perhaps Fr. Todd could shed some light on whether he thinks this is something Bishop Carlson might re-establish here in Saginaw.
.