Bishop Robert Carlson - Sioux Falls

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saggal:
I’d settle for not being mocked when I cite basic doctrine, actually.

Anyway, yes, many of us here are hoping Bishop Carlson will re-establish the diaconate here. Of course, he will meet with resistance from those who will cite Bishop Untener’s “it’s not fair to elevate men but not women” party line.
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I’ve never understood this argument about rank. Being concerned about being “elevated” tells me there is something else going on. We are called to serve. Some serve as priests, some as deacons, some as music ministers, some as teachers etc. I don’t see my role as any less or any more important than anyone else’s in the Church - it’s just different - because we are all given different gifts. I think some of the more militant proponants of female ordination are really after something else - power. And yet we have no power except that which God gives us. Jesus said so himself. Therefore ordained and laity alike, are equally called to draw others to Christ. We are all called to spread the Gospel. What difference does it make to evangization if we do it from the ambo or if we do it in our everyday lives? Jesus wasn’t ordained, Mary wasn’t ordained - that certainly didn’t keep them from doing the work of God.
 
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singerlady:
I wondered about this and was told that there is no permanent deaconate in Sioux Falls. Perhaps Fr. Todd could shed some light on whether he thinks this is something Bishop Carlson might re-establish here in Saginaw.
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I can’t speak about Bishop Carlson’s plans. He would have to do that.

I can tell you we do have a permanent deaconate in Sioux Falls. We just admitted 8 men to candidacy for it. We do not use them as priest substitutes though like many dioceses do.
 
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FatherTodd:
I can tell you we do have a permanent deaconate in Sioux Falls.
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This is what I was actually asking - whether Sioux Falls has one.
I am glad to hear that I was mis-informed. Our parish is blessed to have a wonderful deacon.
 
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singerlady:
I’ve never understood this argument about rank. Being concerned about being “elevated” tells me there is something else going on. We are called to serve. Some serve as priests, some as deacons, some as music ministers, some as teachers etc. I don’t see my role as any less or any more important than anyone else’s in the Church - it’s just different - because we are all given different gifts. I think some of the more militant proponants of female ordination are really after something else - power.
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I think more is being read into this than is necessary…from speaking with people who know, it really came down to the fact that men and women were receiving similar (if not exactly the same) training for ministry in the church, and in the end the men were ordained and the women were not.

My personal view is that having deacons is a good thing. But similar to deciding whether or not to admit female altar servers, such decisions are left to the ordinary of the diocese. Bishop Untener didn’t feel it was something he wanted to continue, perhaps Bishop Carlson will feel differently once he takes canonical possession.
 
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frommi:
I think more is being read into this than is necessary…from speaking with people who know, it really came down to the fact that men and women were receiving similar (if not exactly the same) training for ministry in the church, and in the end the men were ordained and the women were not.
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How were women receiving the same training as men before the Lay Ministry program came to be?

Whether women are ordained or not, they can still do what their training prepares them for.

Believe me, there is a larger agenda here than women not being “elevated” to ordination after lay ministry training.
 
But similar to deciding whether or not to admit female altar servers, such decisions are left to the ordinary of the diocese. Bishop Untener didn’t feel it was something he wanted to continue, perhaps Bishop Carlson will feel differently once he takes canonical possession.
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 This is correct as far as it goes. Not every bishop thinks permanent deacons are necessary for the spiritual life of the diocese. But . . .
from speaking with people who know, it really came down to the fact that men and women were receiving similar (if not exactly the same) training for ministry in the church, and in the end the men were ordained and the women were not.
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 I really hope Bishop Untener did not end the permanent diaconate in Saginaw in order to protest the Church's teaching on male ordination. A bishop should never publicly oppose Church teaching.
-Illini (27 and counting)
 
I heard 2 different stories as to why Bishop Untener suspended the permanent deaconate. Both came from deacons in the Saginaw Diocese. The first one said that the bishop called them all together for a meeting and said “Gentlemen, I will not ordain another deacon until I can ordain a woman.”

The second said that some of the deacons were so full of themselves that the bishop threw up his hands and said, “no more.”

I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 
Bishop Untener cited the training of deacons (he wasn’t sure they were receiving adequate education) and the lack of ordination of women as the reasons he cancelled the diaconate program.

He did in fact strongly advocate the ordination of women, calling it “a justice issue.”

That resulted in our diocese becoming a magnet for those women religious who believe they should be priests. At my parish, our nun is very vocal about her ambition to become the first female priest.

I’m thinking many of these folks will leave if Bishop Carlson won’t support them. Which to me means they have more ambition than vocation.

You see, Bishop Untener had the right to run the diocese the way he wanted, whether or not it countered directives from Rome. But I’m not sure other bishops (who may be more in line with the Vatican) will be granted the same right by the Untener-ites.
 
Saggal - thanks so much for clearing that up.

I’ve already heard rumblings at my parish about how this bishop had better not move us backwards. There were times when I felt like the inmates were running the asylum in this diocese.

You’re probably right about the ambition vs. vocation. As I said in a previous post, one does not have to be ordained to do the work of God. In fact, those pushing the envelope are often very un-Christian in there conduct.
 
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saggal:
Bishop Untener cited the training of deacons (he wasn’t sure they were receiving adequate education) and the lack of ordination of women as the reasons he cancelled the diaconate program.

He did in fact strongly advocate the ordination of women, calling it “a justice issue.”

That resulted in our diocese becoming a magnet for those women religious who believe they should be priests. At my parish, our nun is very vocal about her ambition to become the first female priest.

I’m thinking many of these folks will leave if Bishop Carlson won’t support them. Which to me means they have more ambition than vocation.

You see, Bishop Untener had the right to run the diocese the way he wanted, whether or not it countered directives from Rome. But I’m not sure other bishops (who may be more in line with the Vatican) will be granted the same right by the Untener-ites.
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The former Bishop never advocated for the ordination of women. The closest he came was saying that he had a feeling that if the church simply looked at the issue in a real honest way, they may find something they were not looking for. Bishop Gumbleton advocated for women’s ordination, people often get the two confused…but Bishop Untener never specifically advocated for women’s ordination.
 
The Michigan Bishops (under the late John Cardinal Dearden) were real pieces of work and unfortunetely, Untener was the leader of the band, which was very sad indeed!!

Bishop Carlson will DEFINITELY be an asset to the Diocese of Saginaw and everybody there will be much better off. Albiet, he’s got a mess to clean up.

We need to pray for him and all of our bishops, God knows they need all the prayers they can get. That’s how they’ll survive!!
 
I’m sorry, Frommi, but when you cancel your diaconate program in part because you can’t ordain women as deacons, that’s advocacy. Perhaps it’s passive-aggressive in nature, but it’s still advocacy.

And no, I’m not confusing him with Bishop Gumbleton. I endured nearly 25 years in this diocese under Bishop Untener, so I’m quite aware of who he was. Was he a nice man, with a good heart? Yes. Did he do things his own way? Absolutely. Did he (or his staff, for that matter) care if many of us in the pews disagreed or were upset? No.

As I’ve said before, his supporters keep saying they hope Bishop Carlson will listen to them. And I hope he does as well, because I understand all too well how frustrating and disheartening it is to be shut out.
 
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FatherTodd:
Bishop Carlson officially left Sioux Falls this morning and has begun the commute to Saginaw. It was tough seeing him go even though I will see him at the installation next week.

He is a great man and I would ask your prayers for him as well as for our diocese. I hope the Holy Father is as kind to us as he was to Saginaw.
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I agree, I’m a seminarian for Sioux Falls and Bishop was like a father to me.
 
I’ve been reading a lot of contraversy over weather or not Bishop Untener really ever advocated ordaining women. I see a lot of I heard but no I talked to him personally on the issue and this is how he felt. Has anybody had a personal conversation with him or had a letter from him about this?
 
Bishop Untener gave a homily years ago in which he talked about taking a course in sensitivity. He said he came to realize that not ordaining women hurt not only those women who felt called to the priesthood, but that denying ordination to women hurt every woman. I was present when this homily was given.

It was pretty common knowlege in this diocese as to what Bishop Untener’s views were regarding female ordination.
 
Taking a mometary break from what the late bishop did or did not say…

If anyone is interested, the installation will be available on the following:

People in the Diocese can view it on Charter Channel 99…

WMAX radio and WNEM radio will carry it live as well.

WJRT will air the installation on their digital channel (which means anyone with HDTV can watch it)

Wnem.com will supposedly have streaming live video of the installation available on the web for anyone looking to catch it ‘out of town’ (I believe WMAX also has a way to listen to the live programming…just go the website).
 
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frommi:
If anyone is interested, the installation will be available on the following:

People in the Diocese can view it on Charter Channel 99…

WMAX radio and WNEM radio will carry it live as well.

QUOTE]

Thanks so much for this info, frommi! We will be watching since we cannot attend!
:blessyou: Beth
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The Argus Leader (the paper in Sioux Falls) has a good write-up about Bishop Carlson… interestingly, it mentions this thread! You should check it out, if you haven’t already.

PAX,
-C
 
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