Bishop Robert Carlson - Sioux Falls

  • Thread starter Thread starter MBS1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Frommi,

You are right, except for the missing embolism, there wasn’t much in terms of abuse. Nobody knelt after the Agnus Dei but I don’t know what the call is in that diocese regarding that.

One interesting thing I noticed was the sign of reverence before receiving Communion. Instead of a bow before receiving the Host, most people bowed while they were receiving, that is bowed over the hand of the priest as he set the host into their hand. I have never seen that before. Is it the norm there?

I was confuse by the altar/ambo set up. Since they are on facing ends, I guess they weren’t in the camera shot at the same time and whenever there was a wide shot from the back, the tree/cross blocked the view of the sanctuary.

Lovely Mass. Congratulations to you and everyone in the Saginaw diocese.
 
40.png
kmktexas:
I’m not in a “tizzy” 😃 The Bishop appeared kind of shocked and didn’t say anything for a moment. I had a picture in my mind of him taking out a mental list and moving the item labled “GIRM” up a few notches. 😉

Since you are local, it looks like the altar serves double duty as the ambo. Is that right or is it just that they are cramped for space today? Nice cathedral by the way (except the dead tree cross in the middle). Lots of nuns in habit too 👍 along with several middle-age women in suits who might be incognito nuns.
Click to expand...
I’m not Frommi, but I can tell you that the ambo looks like the altar except that it’s smaller. The altar doesn’t double as the ambo.
 
Frommi,

You are right, except for the missing embolism, there wasn’t much in terms of abuse. Nobody knelt after the Agnus Dei but I don’t know what the call is in that diocese regarding that.

One interesting thing I noticed was the sign of reverence before receiving Communion. Instead of a bow before receiving the Host, most people bowed while they were receiving, that is bowed over the hand of the priest as he set the host into their hand. I have never seen that before. Is it the norm there?

I was confuse by the altar/ambo set up. Since they are on facing ends, I guess they weren’t in the camera shot at the same time and whenever there was a wide shot from the back, the tree/cross blocked the view of the sanctuary.

Lovely Mass. Congratulations to you and everyone in the Saginaw diocese.
 
I was priveleged to be at the installation today. All I can say is that we in Saginaw are truly, truly blessed. Bishop Carlson is a man of God and his faith shines forth so clearly in what he says. It’s not hard to see why vocations rose under his leadership.
 
40.png
kmktexas:
Frommi,

You are right, except for the missing embolism, there wasn’t much in terms of abuse. Nobody knelt after the Agnus Dei but I don’t know what the call is in that diocese regarding that.

You may not have noticed, but the entire congregation sang the doxology. Some were even chanting the words of Institution along with the priest.

One interesting thing I noticed was the sign of reverence before receiving Communion. Instead of a bow before receiving the Host, most people bowed while they were receiving, that is bowed over the hand of the priest as he set the host into their hand. I have never seen that before. Is it the norm there?

No, we are supposed to bow before receiving. Some of the priests did not teach their congregation the correct way to do it. Sometimes the EM doesn’t give one a chance to bow. I was almost hit in the head with a chalice several times.
Click to expand...
 
I’m sorry for those of you who could only watch the webcast. That station (WNEM) just doesn’t get it. They blabbed all the way through Bishop Untener’s funeral as well. It’s as if they think that liturgical silence is dead airtime that needs to be filled with inane comments.

I was blessed to have watched (and taped) the coverage from WJRT, which is far better. They respect viewers enough to know that not everything needs words. Plus, they had a priest from the Diocese of Lansing who gently put things in perspective.

It was a beautiful ceremony, and I was thrilled by the promises Bishop Carlson made during his homily. But believe me, it’s not going to be easy. Some of the priests here are already talking about what they will and won’t give in on. And at least a few were upset that there were hosts used at the installation.

I never thought I’d live long enough to hear a priest make snide comments about using Hosts for Holy Eucharist.
 
40.png
saggal:
Some of the priests here are already talking about what they will and won’t give in on. And at least a few were upset that there were hosts used at the installation.

I never thought I’d live long enough to hear a priest make snide comments about using Hosts for Holy Eucharist.
Click to expand...
I find it ironic that when I questioned some of the practices we’ve adopted - presidential chair out of the sanctuary, singing of the doxology, the ingredients used for the bread etc, I was told by a former pastor pastor, in essence, “the bishop is the boss.” I would lay odds that this same priest is now one of those making a list of deal-breakers.

Yesterday’s Mass was very much toned down from what we have been doing. I am thinking that the Sioux Falls people didn’t think so. I couldn’t believe we did the Saginaw Blessing. It seemed more of an “in your face” statement than a blessing. You could tell that the Sioux Falls contingent was very much in grief mode. I can only imagine their sorrow at losing such a great leader - and to a diocese that appears to not want such a man. But, we have some wonderful priests serving in our diocese - men who want to love their bishop and who will stand behind Bishop Carlson. I am confident that all of this is being orchestrated by the Holy Spirit and that the diocese of Saginaw is going to thrive!
 
I’m almost scared to read what our Sioux Falls visitors thought of our Diocese. If the SF priests conversed with some of our pastors, I’m sure they walked away discouraged and appalled. Especially since many diocesan folks I’ve talked to are openly suspicious of how Bishop Carlson has managed to attract so many men to the priesthood. Not one has expressed admiration for his efforts – all have immediately questioned the quality of the seminarians.

To me, that’s just a sad, sad commentary on how far things are out of whack here.
 
An open letter to all michigonians-

We are very much in grief mode here in South Dakota missing out beloved and Holy Bishop.

I watched the webcast yesterday and thats one ugly cathedral!

I saw Fr. Todd on the webcast and a few other South Dakotan priests. Does anyone know how many of our fine ‘men in black’ made the trip?

Enjoy your time with Bishop. He’s not only one of the best, I’d venture to say he is the best! Your priests that challenge him are no better than Judas on the night of the Last Supper.

It has been said many a time here that Bishop Carlson has begun his journey to his own Calvary and his installation was just the part where he was condemned to death.

A comment I heard from someone in sioux Falls yesterday was “I drove by bishop’s house and it looked so dead!” Truly, Our Diocese is in mourning and will continue to be so.

Please, realize that this is a Holy man. One who has taken me under his roof many a time. He deserves better than the stupid ludicris treatment that it sounds will be coming his way. How he is treated is just how your clergy and people would treat the Lord Jesus, had he come to Saginaw; and yet in a way he has: in the person of Bishop Robert James Carlson.

Pray for him. He needs the prayers and he needs your support! If you doubt his decisions, realize he has a reason for them and it will be okay in the end.
 
40.png
bknebel:
It has been said many a time here that Bishop Carlson has begun his journey to his own Calvary and his installation was just the part where he was condemned to death.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, but I take great umbrage with my hometown being compared to Calvary.

The Bishop is the chief liturgist of his diocese, if Bishop Carlson wants things a certain way, I’m relatively confident that those things will be respected.

These forums deal in some much heresay that no one knows what to believe. Snide comments about hosts? From who? When?

The installation of this new bishop is just the beginning of a new relationship. I wish people would respect the fact that for the priests and laity of the diocese of saginaw, this is the first new bishop since 1980. There is going to be some time before people are at ease. It really isn’t any different than when you or I get a new boss at work. You spend time getting to know people and getting to know their style and move on.

I reject wholeheartedly the idea that yesterday’s installation mass was “toned down by diocesan standards”. That was pretty much how any mass in the diocese has gone. Regardless of what people here or say, there were not “rampant abuses”.

Bishop Carlson will be Bishop Carlson, not Bishop Untener. That’s the way it is supposed to be.

The priests will come to know him and respect him and his office. But for crying out loud, give them a little time.

And stop calling Saginaw calvary…I would never say that the diocese has no issues, but people who throw such awful statements as “calvary” out there obscure the good work done by the people in that local church for a good many years. That is a shameful thing to do.
 
What bishops were at the Installation Mass yesterday? I just saw photos and video segments on abc12.com

I did watch an interview online at abc12.com about Bishop Carlson. He celebrated a Mass for students at Nouvel High School in Saginaw. I saw two photos from that Mass and hosts were not used… instead “real bread”… Also, glass vessels were used…

He has a lot do to in Saginaw but with prayers and support… he will get the job done…
 
40.png
cdwiseman:
What bishops were at the Installation Mass yesterday? I just saw photos and video segments on abc12.com

I did watch an interview online at abc12.com about Bishop Carlson. He celebrated a Mass for students at Nouvel High School in Saginaw. I saw two photos from that Mass and hosts were not used… instead “real bread”… Also, glass vessels were used…

He has a lot do to in Saginaw but with prayers and support… he will get the job done…
Click to expand...
I love that saginaw has a bishop for the first time in a year…and people think his energies should be spent getting glass cups off the altar…aren’t there a few more important items to deal with?
 
40.png
frommi:
I reject wholeheartedly the idea that yesterday’s installation mass was “toned down by diocesan standards”. That was pretty much how any mass in the diocese has gone. Regardless of what people here or say, there were not “rampant abuses”.
.
Click to expand...
You can reject the idea all you want. Not to be argumentative, but I was there, as I have been for all major diocesan celebrations. It WAS toned down. There were no liturgical dancers, ther choir did not rehearse the doxology in preparation for leading the congregation in singing it, there was no accompaniment behind the Eucharistic prayer, the congregation was not encouraged to mimic the motions of the celebrant. It WAS toned down.
 
40.png
singerlady:
You can reject the idea all you want. Not to be argumentative, but I was there, as I have been for all major diocesan celebrations. It WAS toned down. There were no liturgical dancers, ther choir did not rehearse the doxology in preparation for leading the congregation in singing it, there was no accompaniment behind the Eucharistic prayer, the congregation was not encouraged to mimic the motions of the celebrant. It WAS toned down.
Click to expand...
I don’t think we’ve had liturgical dance since Pat Wilson left to go to Nova Scotia…but I could be wrong.

I guess, from what I watched and having been at several diocesan celebrations in the past I’m saying that contrary to popular belief it’s not like we had musical numbers that rivaled “Cats” during mass.

Assume it was “toned down”, it still appeared very celebratory, and it appeared that people were singing full throated and that the liturgical action of installing a bishop was received quite well.

If Bishop Carlson wants his chair moved, so be it…if he wants hosts made at a monastery instead of in the community…go for it…I just don’t think it serves anyone particularly well to keep some sort of “liturgical scorecard”.
 
40.png
frommi:
I love that saginaw has a bishop for the first time in a year…and people think his energies should be spent getting glass cups off the altar…aren’t there a few more important items to deal with?
Click to expand...
I imagine so, although getting glass cups off the altar seems a fairly simple process. Bishop Carlson seems to have his priorities straight since he spoke at length in his homily about our responsibilities to the poor. From what I’ve seen, this is a man who will do what needs to be done with pastoral love and care. My heart was touched when he said that he has prayed for the people of Saginaw and that he loves us.

As far as yesterday’s Mass - it was beautiful and prayerful. Perhaps toned down in not the correct term. The people of Saginaw know how to celebrate and celebrations in Saginaw have always been spirt-filled and wonderful.

I don’t remember when Pat Wilson left, but liturgical dance has been part of diocesan celebrations as recently as last year’s Chrism mass. I seem to remember that there were liturgical dancers at Bishop Untener’s funeral, but I’d have to check the tape to verify that.
 
40.png
singerlady:
As far as yesterday’s Mass - it was beautiful and prayerful. Perhaps toned down in not the correct term. The people of Saginaw know how to celebrate and celebrations in Saginaw have always been spirt-filled and wonderful.
Click to expand...
Exactly…and I really believe that regardless of the GIRM and getting things “straightened out” that the person worshipping in the pew will continue to bring their whole self to the celebration of mass.

The singing will be good…the preaching will be excellent…and the reverence for eucharist will be there.

This other stuff…cups, chairs, ordinary versus extraordinary…that will all work itself out, but I have a hard time picturing it stifling the celebratory nature of the people of the diocese.
 
40.png
kmktexas:
I just heard him say that he personally will be the Vocations Director in Saginaw. Now, I would say that’s a strong committment! 👍
Click to expand...
He was the vocations director in here when I first started looking at becoming a seminarian.
 
40.png
StThomasMore:
SaintJVMan,

Do you know if the old Mass will be celebrated anytime soon at the Cathedral? Or anywhere else in the Sioux Falls diocese?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure off the top of my head on the details. Our seminary is in St. Paul so I’m about 4 hours removed from Sioux Falls, I will check and get back to you as soon as I find a reliable source (I’ll just email the priest who I believe was going to be the one to celebrate it).
 
40.png
saggal:
all have immediately questioned the quality of the seminarians.
Click to expand...
As a Sioux Falls seminarian I think I can comment on this. With the possible exception of myself (I say this because I’m hardly in a position to judge my own quality with any degree of objectivities) all of our men are of very high quality, there’s not one who is anything less then completely, obediently orthodox (some even militantly so). And you to will get to see so, since two of our men are following bishop and will cease studding for the diocese of Sioux Falls and study for Saginaw.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top