Bishop Robert Carlson - Sioux Falls

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FatherTodd:
Basil. You don’t know the full story on that and you are giving out a bit of inaccurate information. SJVman is as well on the Latin Mass.
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Which is why I said that before I would give anymore details I would have to make sure I had good information.
 
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Sanveann:
I’m very interested to hear what the problems you are alleging in the Lansing diocese. I have seen very few abuses here – the main ones were at St. John’s in East Lansing, but those seem to have mostly been cleared up since Bishop Mengling took over. I believe in Brighton you have Father Dan, correct? He was the pastor in Williamston when I attended there, and I never saw him do anything unorthodox.
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Perhaps every diocese has its own problems. Most of ours come from less discipline than there should be…
abuses at

After typing a lot, I have deleted the list of the “problems” that I am aware of at different parishes. Those who post here can recognize the forms of “attack” which many parishes have to indure. Critizing/questioning a pastor or bishop’s problems often does little good. But denying they exist is the same as condoning them. So I can only encourage one to speak up when the perceived abuse occurs. Pray for the leaders, remembering that they are human too. Perhaps if Bishop Mengeling was a younger man, he would be more forceful - but God knows best, and hopefully the bishop will do what God wants before he retires. Again, I hope Bishop Carlson is a motivation to that end.
 
Young confirmations are traditional in the Eastern Rites where confirmation is usually done at Baptism. The Western Rite traditions (now largely only Latin, Mozarabic, and Ambrosian) confirm around early adolescence. The age has shifted throughout the years, but is generally around the age of twelve now. One of the tenents is that they need the sacramental grace for the rocky road of puberty. I agree with this and add that when I was that age I didn’t fully understand what was going on, but consenting was important. I liked the idea of picking out my name: Paul after the Apostle.

The US instruction is to bow to Our Lord when the person directly in front is communicating. In the Saginaw Cathedral I only saw people bow when Our Lord was presented to them, which means their face was to the floor when the priest was attempting to give Our Lord to the communicant. This, logically, means that he had to give the communicant Our Lord in their hands in an effort to speed up the process (we all know the American motto: Time is Money). The whole process if much simpler, quicker, and more reverent when the faithful kneel at the communion rail! Sorry for the confusion.

A bishop can change the location of his Cathedral if he wishes. The church that was his cathdral would simply be a parish church. This is an easy task. The church in Manhattan named St. Peter’s (if I remember correctly) was the Cathedral before St. Patrick’s was built (diocese of New York).

When I said petition I only meant it in its traditional interpretation, meaning to ask Bishop Carlson for the nuns to establish a monastery in the diocese to pray for it. I don’t necessarily mean that a campaign should be started. I don’t think that is in order since Carlson brought them to Sioux Falls, then worked to bring them to Colombia (paying for their move their as well). It’s just an idea.

Pax
Alex
 
Actually, St. Patrick’s Cathedral is in fact NOT the seat of the diocese. I believe that’s the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, which has been under construction for more than 100 years now.

I was simply amazed when I found this out – when in New York, I make it a point to attend Mass at St. Patrick’s. And if I remember correctly, St. Patrick’s relies solely on donations – the diocese does not provide money for it.

It’s so odd, because every time there’s a major event in New York, it takes place at St. Patrick’s, and the 10:15 Mass is known as the Cardinal’s Mass.

Just a little Big Apple trivia 🙂
 
welcome back all!

I missed this forum for so long! Michigonians- How has it been going the past 2 weeks with Bishop Carlson? Who was able to attend Mass in Mt. Pleasant that was speaking of going? or, any other Mass for that matter?
 
Bknebel,

Yeah, we decided to drive over to Mt. Pleasant last Sunday to enjoy Mass with Bishop Carlson and meet him.

I AM SO THRILLED!! Bishop Carlson is absolutely awesome!

For example, the word “mortification” entered his homily - woooOhaaa - how scary this must have been - for some…

I love him, he is awesome, we are so blessed.

His words were words of truth and power and the real “meat” we have been missing. I have been so tired of the “Mahoney Fluff” they have been feeding us lately.

I pray for Bishop Carlson EVERY DAY. His enemies have no chance.😃

Take care,
Scapular
 
Scapular,

So glad to hear it! I do hope he makes the ‘non-orthies’ of the diocese a little nervious!
 
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saggal:
Actually, St. Patrick’s Cathedral is in fact NOT the seat of the diocese. I believe that’s the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, which has been under construction for more than 100 years now.

I was simply amazed when I found this out – when in New York, I make it a point to attend Mass at St. Patrick’s. And if I remember correctly, St. Patrick’s relies solely on donations – the diocese does not provide money for it.

It’s so odd, because every time there’s a major event in New York, it takes place at St. Patrick’s, and the 10:15 Mass is known as the Cardinal’s Mass.

Just a little Big Apple trivia 🙂
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Hello,

Don’t let me stop the conversation of this thread but I am quite sure that St. John’s is Anglican.
 
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avephilomena:
Hi, I’m catching up on the posts and will reply with what I know and to what has not been responded to.
  1. Carlson gave permission for the Tridentine Rite and it was in full swing to start. His appointment to Saginaw put the skids on it, esp. since Aquila is historically against the old Mass.
  2. Carlson whispered the “Deliver us Lord . . .” which is why it looked like he was shocked or caught off guard.
  3. The pastor of St. Mary’s Cathedral is a good and kind priest. I am very impressed with him. He jumped through hoops to have a beautiful Installation Mass. He did all Bishop asked for, esp. with having altar linenes, gold plated chalices, gold patens for ciboria, and such.
  4. It it true that many (not all) in the congregation sang the Doxology. It is also true that some knelt during the consecration, even though there were no kneelers.
  5. I found it awkward for the communicants to bow when the priests presented Our Lord to them for communication. The bowing automatically eliminates communication via tongue as an option.
  6. The priests I met were all very kind to me and did not seem incredibly liberal as one would think. They did show demoralization given the state of the diocese – especially the severe and chronic lack of seminarians. I suppose I would, too, if I were to see die what I dedicated my life to!
  7. The Cathedral is a beautiful edifice. It has not been destroyed but just gutted. It can easily be restored to its deserved grandeur. There is a parish nearby which may be able to serve as the cathedral, thus saving the diocese the money needed for restoration. This parish (Holy Family I think is the name) is just a few houses down from what was the Bishop’s house before Untener sold it.
  8. Untener ordained three priests in the last ten years, while Carlson ordained 33. Just before Carlson was installed there were two seminarians as the third quit. Carlson already has two more who want to study for him. He has doubled the number of seminarians for the diocese in his first day as Bishop!
  9. The Adoration Sisters are a rich blessing to the Sioux Falls Diocese. You should petition Carlson to start a Monastery of them in Saginaw. A Discalced Carmelite Convent would be a good thing, too.
  10. Throughout the US the Bishops should be confirming at age 12. They agreed to this several years back and should abide by their agreement.
    Sorry for the long post. I’ve been away for awhile and thought I’d put in my two cents in one single post instead of many small ones.
    Pax
    Alex
    PS – To all of you in Saginaw: thanks for your incredible hospitality. I loved my visit and feel blessed to have been there for your great celebration. I never saw a unkind person nor heard an unkind word. I dare say you know that Charity is the Queen of Virtues!
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  • I didn’t know Aquila was aganist the Traditional Mass? That’s good that more seminarians are studying for the Diocese of Saginaw… I wonder where Bishop Carlson will send them for their studies?
-Chris
 
Well…it’s been a week…have all the “liberals” left the diocese because they are “enemies” of the new bishop?

Just wondering…
 
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ekindermann:
Basil. You don’t know the full story on that and you are giving out a bit of inaccurate information. SJVman is as well on the Latin Mass.

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I’ve been waiting for Fr. Todd to clarify…Will you Fr. Todd? Respectfully, perhaps this should have been in a PM to Basil rather than out here? Unless, you wanted to give more info?

What is the real deal on the Latin mass availability (either at the cathedral or elsewhere) I think that was th eoriginal question;

and what is the story on the TEC program? Isn’t that a spin off of Cursillo for teens? Can you (or someone) explain that program?

:blessyou: Beth
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My point is that some matters are internal to the diocese and it would be important to ask the person involved.

If someone does something we should ask them for the reason. That is a requirement of Charity.

I know both SJVman and Basil and believe them both to be faithful men of God. My purpose in not messaging them privately was to respond in public to inaccurate info that was given in public so other would not think that info was accurate.

I fully believe they thought it was accurate but I think they heard somethings through the grapevine and you know how they can get changed.

That being said if you have concerns about TEC or the Traditional Mass in the Diocese of Sioux Falls I think they would best be asked of those in the chancery who made the decisions. I wasn’t one of those so I can’t speak for them.

Hope that helps clarify a bit.

Please pray for Bishop Carlson. I am glad to hear the people are responding well to him. I love him and am firmly convinced that God chose him for this and you can’t go wrong if your doing God’s will.
 
Oops. I stand – well, sit, actually – corrected. St. Patrick’s is in fact the cathedral seat of the Archdiocese of New York.

Must be all those taxi cab fumes.
 
This is my first posting on this forum, and may be my only one. I prayed about this for a while now and know I have to say something in order to be at peace with myself.

Many issues have been raised here, but I would only like to address a few.
  • the Cathedral in Saginaw may be “ugly” in some people’s eyes, but it is a building and its real beauty shines forth when the faith and spirit of the Church of Saginaw gathers there. By the way, the Cathedral was renovated by our late Bishop Reh.
  • two seminarians are coming to Saginaw to finish studies for the priesthood, we welcome them and pray that they are drawn by a love for and a desire to serve the whole Church of Saginaw and not just it’s Shepherd.
  • remarks have been made about Bishop Untener being ego-centered, in fact the exact opposite it true. He was the most humble man I think I ever knew. When he died, we and his family found out many, many things that he had done to touch the lives of thousands of people who stood in line for hours to pay their respect. Archbishop John Quinn gave the homily at his funeral and said that he gave example to all bishops on how a Bishop should serve.
  • it appears to me that many have already drawn lines in the sand in this Church of Saginaw. How can we ever hope to be on body with the division these remarks have already caused. I pray for all of you who carry so much anger and bitterness in your hearts. I heard Bishop Carlson say that your faith must be in your heart - can it live in the same house as anger and bitterness?
  • please be assured that the whole Church of Saginaw welcomes Bishop Carlson and is eager to work with and for him. We also believe that Bishop Untener is smiling on us and would expect nothing else from this Church.
Peace!
 
Hestia -

That was a beautiful post - obviously written after much prayer.
Thank you for giving us something to think and pray about.
 
The Most Reverend John M. Quinn is not an “Archbishop.” He is an Auxiliary Bishop of Detroit. It appears the question is: Who was Bishop Untener serving?
 
Archbishop John Quinn is the retired bishop of San Francisco, and also a good friend of Bishop Carlson
 
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Hestia:
This is my first posting on this forum, and may be my only one. I prayed about this for a while now and know I have to say something in order to be at peace with myself.

Many issues have been raised here, but I would only like to address a few.
  • the Cathedral in Saginaw may be “ugly” in some people’s eyes, but it is a building and its real beauty shines forth when the faith and spirit of the Church of Saginaw gathers there. By the way, the Cathedral was renovated by our late Bishop Reh.
  • two seminarians are coming to Saginaw to finish studies for the priesthood, we welcome them and pray that they are drawn by a love for and a desire to serve the whole Church of Saginaw and not just it’s Shepherd.
  • remarks have been made about Bishop Untener being ego-centered, in fact the exact opposite it true. He was the most humble man I think I ever knew. When he died, we and his family found out many, many things that he had done to touch the lives of thousands of people who stood in line for hours to pay their respect. Archbishop John Quinn gave the homily at his funeral and said that he gave example to all bishops on how a Bishop should serve.
  • it appears to me that many have already drawn lines in the sand in this Church of Saginaw. How can we ever hope to be on body with the division these remarks have already caused. I pray for all of you who carry so much anger and bitterness in your hearts. I heard Bishop Carlson say that your faith must be in your heart - can it live in the same house as anger and bitterness?
  • please be assured that the whole Church of Saginaw welcomes Bishop Carlson and is eager to work with and for him. We also believe that Bishop Untener is smiling on us and would expect nothing else from this Church.
Peace!
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Your words are so true. And when Bishop Ken was ordained in the Saginaw Diocese he said, and this has been quoted several times, “My name is Ken. I’m going to be your waiter”. This is what he told a packed arena for his ordination. And he served us well, just as Jesus washed the feet of His disciples. There wasn’t a more humble man than Bishop Ken. I knew personally a man that Bishop Ken went to visit in the hospital who had to have his leg amputated due to diabetes. He was protestant and didn’t know Bishop Ken. But Bishop Ken had something to share, and when he shared that his own leg had been amputated, it gave this man a reason to go on living. Bishop Untener’s life in the Saginaw Diocese is filled with examples like this of his love for his flock and also other denominations.

The Cathedral in Saginaw is beautiful. We make it this way. The simplicity allows our spirits to shine forth.

And we do welcome Bishop Carlson with open arms, in spite of what some on this web site have inferred.

Yup, Hestia, you got it right!!
 
Gary Konczal:
The Most Reverend John M. Quinn is not an “Archbishop.” He is an Auxiliary Bishop of Detroit.
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I think you’re confusing him with Bishop Gumbleton.
 
There are simply two "John Quinn"s serving as bishops in the US:

Bishop John Michael Quinn, Auxiliary Bishop of Detroit
Archbishop John Raphael Quinn, Archbishop Emeritus of San Francisco

(plus 3 other Quinn bishops not named John 🙂
 
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