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singerlady
Guest
Oh, I didn’t know about the Bishop Quinn from Detroit. It was the bishop from San Francisco who gave the homily at Bishop Untener’s funeral, though.
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sapulizzi
Guest
If anyone in MI has taped the coverage of Bishop Carlson’s installation Mass and could make a copy of it for me, I would be eternally grateful!
Please let me know.
Susan
Please let me know.
Susan
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Pax2u
Guest
Susan, if you go to this link, one of the local tv channels has it on this website, and you can watch it on your computer wnem.com/Global/story.asp?S=2995591&nav=7k75Wn6L
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sapulizzi
Guest
Thanks for the link! I would like to have it on tape or dvd as well, since I very rarely have the time to sit and watch it all at once. On the computer it is hard to get back to the spot you left off when watching a video…unless I am missing something.
Many Blessings!
Susan
Many Blessings!
Susan
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ekindermann
Guest
Hi All from sunny Florida! I came down Friday to visit my folks (Tampa) and the forums were still not up & running! I thought I’d go crazy that week. I finally figured perhaps, maybe, I was getting a little bit too addicted and God said, “no forums for you this week!”
So now I sit in the library at MacDill AFB, where the folks are on vacation, trying to quickly catch up!*We too went to Mt. P - I wish I would have known you would be there scapular! We could have met! *
He was great. I thought the same thing you did about the “mortification” It was indeed refreshing.
*I have still no reply to my letter to him, but I bet he has quite a stack to work through. *
Awaiting changes in Harrison!!!
God Bless You All!
So good to see you again.
Beth
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MBS1
Guest
Beth, I sent him a letter when he was still in S.D., and got a fairly quick reply. Nothing meaty - just asking us to pray for him in his new ministry (which of course I’ve been doing all along). Anyone going to the luncheon at Swan Valley on April 10th? I know the woman from CUF setting it up. Maybe we can get a FORUM TABLE
!
Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll get a reply - he says he reads all of his mail.
MBS1
!Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll get a reply - he says he reads all of his mail.
MBS1
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cdwiseman
Guest
Bishop Carlson does read all his mail… I received a response from him when I emailed him while he was Bishop of Sioux Falls and congratualed him on his new assignment in Saginaw…Beth, I sent him a letter when he was still in S.D., and got a fairly quick reply. Nothing meaty - just asking us to pray for him in his new ministry (which of course I’ve been doing all along). Anyone going to the luncheon at Swan Valley on April 10th? I know the woman from CUF setting it up. Maybe we can get a FORUM TABLE
Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll get a reply - he says he reads all of his mail.
MBS1
I even sent him this vocation questionnare I got from my Archdiocese about my vocation and he responsed and told me that he wants an inviation to my ordination to the priesthood (if I follow my called vocation in life)…
-Chris
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ekindermann
Guest
Hey yes! A FORUM table would be very cool! Let me know if anyone asks Marge about it. We already requested to sit with another homeschooling friend and her hubby, but I don’t know, I might be forced to table hop!Beth, I sent him a letter when he was still in S.D., and got a fairly quick reply. Nothing meaty - just asking us to pray for him in his new ministry (which of course I’ve been doing all along). Anyone going to the luncheon at Swan Valley on April 10th? I know the woman from CUF setting it up. Maybe we can get a FORUM TABLE
Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll get a reply - he says he reads all of his mail.
MBS1
Hey sorry about the GIGANTIC GREEN obnoxious font that I used on my last message! Wanted to look like FL happiness, but geez, I didn’t know it would come out that big!
Now it supposed to rain here for two days, then we go home Friday. 
My niece did get a reply to her letter, sounds kind of like what you got, a general, nice reply. Perhaps he will respond to some of the points that I brought up. Or perhaps not, I’m just glad he’ll read it. I told him that to feel forced to leave your home parish is like a spiritual divorce. It is quite painful and continues to be.
But, to us, going back while things are still so disobedient would be tantamount to someone going “back” to a highly, almost abusive dysfunctional family. Sometimes you have to leave. Especially when the matter for Eucharist is invalid. That was the clincher for me about six weeks ago now, when I knew we were getting Bishop Carlson, I thought maybe we should return & put up with the nun homilies, etc, and await the changes, so that we could help with the changes. But when I discovered the recipe…that was it - NO WAY. I can still hear that woman from the diocese office saying, “Don’t make waves in your parish. It will probably be changed soon.” Good grief! Like telling me not to intervene in a domestic violence situation because, “we don’t want to make waves.” It makes me physically ill.
Sorry! Geez where did that sunny Florida attitude go?
Guess I need a longer vacation!God Bless You All,
Beth
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frommi
Guest
OK…it has been two weeks…have all the heretics been chased out of Saginaw like the snakes out of Ireland?
Did the Bishop bring in a construction company to reinstall kneelers throughout?
Are they having an “authenticity of the bread” bake off?
Come on…with as bad as things purportedly are…I would expect such an orthodox man to take of these grievous problems before worrying about things like keeping schools open…sheesh…
Did the Bishop bring in a construction company to reinstall kneelers throughout?
Are they having an “authenticity of the bread” bake off?
Come on…with as bad as things purportedly are…I would expect such an orthodox man to take of these grievous problems before worrying about things like keeping schools open…sheesh…
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singerlady
Guest
I’m wondering if we can expect a post like this every week. I’m not sure what the purpose is except to stir the pot.
Most of the people I’ve talked to are impressed with what they have seen of Bishop Carlson.
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ekindermann
Guest
**So very true, singerlady. Let’s not give him the satisfaction.
He just shows his true colors, not the innocently inquiring mind he pretended to be in the beginning. So transparent it makes me laugh. And with St. Patty’s day approaching and me being half Irish & all, snakes like him should be on the run! **Beth
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singerlady
Guest
You joke about this, but I was talking to one of our “bread” bakers. Because she has small children (she’s living with her fiancee) she bakes bread at home. “Sometimes I put honey in, sometimes I don’t. Depends on my mood. I don’t always put baking powder in.” Huh? What part of unleavened do we not understand? Personally, it wouldn’t bother me if the new bishop swooped into every parish in the diocese, willy nilly, correcting abuses. But that doesn’t appear to be his style. Which is probably why he is so well-loved.
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ekindermann
Guest
and we’re so making mountains out of molehills here, dontcha know?Personally, it wouldn’t bother me if the new bishop swooped into every parish in the diocese, willy nilly, correcting abuses.
you know, i knew i’d like you!
swoop away, swoop to Harrison first please!
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frommi
Guest
I don’t have an issue with Bishop Carlson, sounds to me like he’s a wonderful guy.
I’m just remembering the folks who were ready for him to show up crozier’s a blazin and take out all the “heresy” and “inauthentic catholic teaching” (in their opinion) in the diocese.
This is about a lack of charity on the part of others…not the Bishop.
And btw…I don’t think I ever pretended to be some innocent inquiring mind…and my agenda isn’t nearly as misbegoten as some in this forum
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BayCityRickL
Guest
I think it is significant that so many Saginaw Diocese Catholics over a wide area are fed up with a Beavis-and-Butthead approach to the liturgy, where the Mass rubrics are always a moving target marked by pointless innovation.
Even the Vatican has recently attempted to put back some solemnity into the Mass and to upgrade the appreciation of the Eucharist by having some devotional, such as a genuflection or bow before reception of the Eucharist. Even Rome can sense that things are not well out here.
There is a bias in this column to criticize people for a lack of charity. The usual scenario of this is that some liberals are citing loopholes for innovations that they are trying to force on others. The people rebelling against the “stodgy authoritarianism” of the church are doing so by simply using the same authoritarianism in their own way to p.o. other people. Then, they criticize those people as lacking in charity. So, they add a false moral claim to their own selfish dictates.
In many instances, it seems, the Vatican allowed bishops some lattitude in certain implementations. The late bishop took that a step further by delegating that implementation down to the parish level, so the whole diocese has all these varied practices and implementations.
Don’t take my word for it. The Vatican, as we all know, has spoken out against abuses of the liturgy that have resulted and is itself backpeddling to make some greater sense out of the rubrics of the Mass.
If the Bishops of the U.S. want to have an American or English rite, on a par with the Latin rite or any of the others, then I’d say that would be a spectacular development. And, certainly, an orderly and sensible role for lay women and men in the Mass would be outstanding. I wish I knew more about the Eastern rites and the valid Orthodox rites where the emphasis in the liturgy is often different, and refreshingly so.
What we seem to have now, is that every step in the Mass seems to have 5 options, and that leads, in my view, to simply pointless and distracting variation.
I hardly want to step into the “honey” debate, but I do have an opinion. There’s no religious significance to using honey in the Eucharistic bread. The references in the Old Testament to the promised land of “milk and honey” was not a promise of bees and cows in Jerusalem. It was a symbolic reference to the promised land as being a place where the good news of the gospel would be proclaimed.
If nothing else, the arguments and debates in the Saginaw Diocese seem to have no other purpose than fostering disunity.
I am sure it will take all of Bishop Carlson’s ministry to bring people together.
Even the Vatican has recently attempted to put back some solemnity into the Mass and to upgrade the appreciation of the Eucharist by having some devotional, such as a genuflection or bow before reception of the Eucharist. Even Rome can sense that things are not well out here.
There is a bias in this column to criticize people for a lack of charity. The usual scenario of this is that some liberals are citing loopholes for innovations that they are trying to force on others. The people rebelling against the “stodgy authoritarianism” of the church are doing so by simply using the same authoritarianism in their own way to p.o. other people. Then, they criticize those people as lacking in charity. So, they add a false moral claim to their own selfish dictates.
In many instances, it seems, the Vatican allowed bishops some lattitude in certain implementations. The late bishop took that a step further by delegating that implementation down to the parish level, so the whole diocese has all these varied practices and implementations.
Don’t take my word for it. The Vatican, as we all know, has spoken out against abuses of the liturgy that have resulted and is itself backpeddling to make some greater sense out of the rubrics of the Mass.
If the Bishops of the U.S. want to have an American or English rite, on a par with the Latin rite or any of the others, then I’d say that would be a spectacular development. And, certainly, an orderly and sensible role for lay women and men in the Mass would be outstanding. I wish I knew more about the Eastern rites and the valid Orthodox rites where the emphasis in the liturgy is often different, and refreshingly so.
What we seem to have now, is that every step in the Mass seems to have 5 options, and that leads, in my view, to simply pointless and distracting variation.
I hardly want to step into the “honey” debate, but I do have an opinion. There’s no religious significance to using honey in the Eucharistic bread. The references in the Old Testament to the promised land of “milk and honey” was not a promise of bees and cows in Jerusalem. It was a symbolic reference to the promised land as being a place where the good news of the gospel would be proclaimed.
If nothing else, the arguments and debates in the Saginaw Diocese seem to have no other purpose than fostering disunity.
I am sure it will take all of Bishop Carlson’s ministry to bring people together.
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BayCityRickL
Guest
By now, anybody in Saginaw that is interested watched the installation of Bishop Carlson at the cathedral church. It seems that only Cardinal Maida and a fellow priest had kneelers to use during the consecration of the Mass.
I don’t think that Mass had Carlson’s touch to it, but I wouldn’t know. I have as much hope for and in him as anybody, but I’m not even going to worry about anything for a year or two, anyway.
Even before he left S.D. he sent a message ahead and said to give him a chance. I think he had a sense of his calling.
I think he needs to meet with the priests and set some directions. I strongly suspect that with him all the past is forgiven (and perhaps well it should be) but I expect him to exert the leadership that corresponds to his writings and reputation. When he puts pen to paper, so to speak, and starts speaking his own mind, we will have a much better idea.
He is a canon law scholar and I think he will give us his best, in accordance with his episcopal rank and pastoral responsibilities. we just need to keep pulling our oars down in the bowels of the boat and we will sense the breeze of the new direction in which we will be heading.
For the last 30 years our minds have been re-molded in various ways. We no longer have an altar, but a table. We no longer have a pulpit, we have another table. The folks are using the architecture itself to hammer a message. Like others, I am so numb from the hammer I haven’t heard the message yet. That’s another little nit that bothers me. But, I’ll keep listening, all the same.
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bknebel
Guest
Bay City Rick-
I pray for you. May God Bless you! Although there are a fair share if issues in my Diocese, I know that liturgical abuse is one that we haven’t had to deal with much. I pray for the entire diocese of Saginaw and the future with Bishop Carlson. May it all be a time of fruitful ministry and may the proper ways of the church be followed!
God Bless the Diocese of Saginaw!
I pray for you. May God Bless you! Although there are a fair share if issues in my Diocese, I know that liturgical abuse is one that we haven’t had to deal with much. I pray for the entire diocese of Saginaw and the future with Bishop Carlson. May it all be a time of fruitful ministry and may the proper ways of the church be followed!
God Bless the Diocese of Saginaw!
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singerlady
Guest
The phrase “you don’t know how to read the documents” is quite popular here. What I hear is “you don’t know how to spin the documents.” Those of us who point out abuses are told that we are fostering disunity in the parish. We’re busybodies and troublemakers who need to “get a life.”
It’s even worse than that. Lay people who have no liturgical training whatsoever, are directing and inserting “innovations.”
My complaint here is that the bread bakers are taking it upon themselves to do whatever they want with the recipe. One of the bakers, who prides herself on her cooking, states empatically that the bread will simply not “work” without honey. I stated earlier that the inmates have taken over the asylum - an unfortunate analogy, but, sadly, rather accurate.
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frommi
Guest
ekindermann said:**So very true, singerlady. Let’s not give him the satisfaction.
Beth
Now I’m a snake…you might be the most entertaining poster on these boards.
For the record, I have no issue with Bishop Carlson, I’ve never met the man, and no longer live in the diocese of Saginaw.
What I was trying to highlight is the way that people have made it sound like he would come in crozier’s a blazin and wipe out the “rampant abuses” in the diocese.
I have found the discourse about the direction of the diocese of Saginaw to be ill-mannered and contemptable.
The very fact that I would be referred to as some kind of snake, tells you the level to which people will stoop to strike back at something they don’t understand and don’t want to understand.
I guess I could do a better job of following the former bishop’s example…he was ill spoken of and spoke no evil in return…that’s probably why he didn’t respond to Beth’s letter.
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singerlady
Guest
You’re painting with a rather wide brush. Considering how disturbed a lot of us are with what has been going on in this diocese and the length of time we have been more or less told to “stuff it” in the interest of unity and harmony, I think the discussion has been fairly civil.
No one said they expected Bishop Carlson to come in here with “crozier’s a blazin,” but since YOU mention it, that surely would be something to see.
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