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frommi
Guest
Once again, here’s where I take issue…
Is there a bishop out there (anywhere) who would not be acting in the spirit of this well written encyclical?
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Is there a bishop out there (anywhere) who would not be acting in the spirit of this well written encyclical?
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bknebel
Guest
FromMi,
I think MS PRoule was making the point that everyone expected both Bishop Carlson and Pope Benedict to come into their roles ‘crosiers a blazin’ and everyone was proven wrong by the gentle, loving and caring these men have shown.
I think MS PRoule was making the point that everyone expected both Bishop Carlson and Pope Benedict to come into their roles ‘crosiers a blazin’ and everyone was proven wrong by the gentle, loving and caring these men have shown.
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frommi
Guest
Kudos on remembering my “croziers a blazin” line.
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bknebel
Guest
thanks, good buddy!
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msproule
Guest
:yup: I took a repose from the Forums yesterday. Thanks for clarifying my point!
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frommi
Guest
msproule said:
Although it should be pointed out that several people were hoping that would be exactly the way the new bishops of rome and saginaw would go about their business.
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singerlady
Guest
Really? Exactly why does that needed to be pointed out? Especially since you were the only one who said it.
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frommi
Guest
Can you honestly tell me that there weren’t people hoping that in 60 days or less that the Pope would stamp out all dissent? There were people within days whining about his appointment of Levada to the CDF because he was too liberal!
Then, if you read this thread, you have people who want to know why a year after his installation, they still have nuns giving homilies.
Excuse me for saying so, but it’s readily apparent that people wanted swift, decisive, and forceful action.
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singerlady
Guest
So? Interesting that the terms “croziers a blazin”, “Girm Hammer”, “and stamping out dissent” all came from you. It seems like you are just trying to fan the flames. Not only that, you have come very close to saying that we wanted to see the former bishop dead. That’s harsh, uncharitable, and meant to stir the pot. That seems to be your style here and on other threads.
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bknebel
Guest
whoa there all…
we need to keep the charity up!
I can honestly say I’m glad the Holy Father and Bishop Carlson are both taking loving and pastoral steps, but yet would’ve been delighted in the initial sweep if they would’ve taken it; but alas- our world is one that doesn’t deal well with forceful actions, especially towards their ‘personal choices’ and ‘good feelings’
Give me that old time religion!
we need to keep the charity up!
I can honestly say I’m glad the Holy Father and Bishop Carlson are both taking loving and pastoral steps, but yet would’ve been delighted in the initial sweep if they would’ve taken it; but alas- our world is one that doesn’t deal well with forceful actions, especially towards their ‘personal choices’ and ‘good feelings’
Give me that old time religion!
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frommi
Guest
The start of this thread was a phrase I think set the tone
“notoriously liberal”
Then we had a priest tell us that Bishop Carlson was going to “Calvary”
So, I think that we can all take responsibility for the tone of the argument here.
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bknebel
Guest
that is true, FromMi.
In defense of Fr. Reitmeyer I will say that the priests here were all sad to lose their beloved shepherd, who truly cared for them like his own brothers and sons. They saw a diocese where there would be work to in areas of liturgy and sacraments, morals, etc (pretty much big city things compared to the cattle and ranch lifestyles here!) as his calvary- his challenge.
God calls all of us to be challenged in our faith. In fact Christ himself said “Take up your cross.” We’re all called to a Calvary. Bishop Carlson had it pretty easy here. He had Daschle to deal with and some parish consolidations and such, but he had very little work that needed to be done in the area of reforming liturgy and bringing parishes back to a catholic Catholic Holy Sacrifice of the Mass… that is one that is UNIVERSAL and uses proper bread, etc… things that the church has asked us to do.
This is his Calvary, his challenge. As a good bishop, he needs to instruct his people and guide them, not let them do what ‘feels good’ or what they wish to.
He spoke harshly here to Senator Daschle and told him to recind calling himself Catholic if he cannot walk the talk.
This is the sign of a good bishop- one that will challenge us and keep us close to the heart of Jesus and his Holy Mother Church.
Mother Angelica of EWTN said “We’re all called to be great saints. Don’t miss the opportunity.” She’s a woman who has suffered and suffered. EWTN was her calvary. She was met by opposition in the form of liberal bishops and other bishops who just didn’t want her interfering. She held firm to the Heart of Christ and created a television network that produces holy and inspiring broadcasting.
Bishop will do the same in his diocese- produce Holy and inspiring priests and help inspire parishes and parishioners as well.
No one said Saginaw was heaven and no one said it was hell. Its paradise for some, but for Bishop- he saw the work ahead of him. The liturgical abuses, the lack of respect for Christ in the Eucharist. It is Calvary for him, just as EWTN is/was calvary for Mother Angelica.
Does that mean that either one of them didn’t want that cross to bear? no. They both have probably fallen in love with their challenges. I know Mother did. It was hard for her to leave the network (read the book by Raymond Arroyo), but she had to do it.
We all have our crosses and we need to joyfully carry them. Mine currently is not knowing exactly where God wants me in life. I will carry that happily and keep doing what I’m doing (studying education) and will go where I feel him leading me, but will also keep close to Christ in the Eucharist.
Thats our goal- follow Christ, up the road to calvary. It won’t be easy, but it will be worth it.
In defense of Fr. Reitmeyer I will say that the priests here were all sad to lose their beloved shepherd, who truly cared for them like his own brothers and sons. They saw a diocese where there would be work to in areas of liturgy and sacraments, morals, etc (pretty much big city things compared to the cattle and ranch lifestyles here!) as his calvary- his challenge.
God calls all of us to be challenged in our faith. In fact Christ himself said “Take up your cross.” We’re all called to a Calvary. Bishop Carlson had it pretty easy here. He had Daschle to deal with and some parish consolidations and such, but he had very little work that needed to be done in the area of reforming liturgy and bringing parishes back to a catholic Catholic Holy Sacrifice of the Mass… that is one that is UNIVERSAL and uses proper bread, etc… things that the church has asked us to do.
This is his Calvary, his challenge. As a good bishop, he needs to instruct his people and guide them, not let them do what ‘feels good’ or what they wish to.
He spoke harshly here to Senator Daschle and told him to recind calling himself Catholic if he cannot walk the talk.
This is the sign of a good bishop- one that will challenge us and keep us close to the heart of Jesus and his Holy Mother Church.
Mother Angelica of EWTN said “We’re all called to be great saints. Don’t miss the opportunity.” She’s a woman who has suffered and suffered. EWTN was her calvary. She was met by opposition in the form of liberal bishops and other bishops who just didn’t want her interfering. She held firm to the Heart of Christ and created a television network that produces holy and inspiring broadcasting.
Bishop will do the same in his diocese- produce Holy and inspiring priests and help inspire parishes and parishioners as well.
No one said Saginaw was heaven and no one said it was hell. Its paradise for some, but for Bishop- he saw the work ahead of him. The liturgical abuses, the lack of respect for Christ in the Eucharist. It is Calvary for him, just as EWTN is/was calvary for Mother Angelica.
Does that mean that either one of them didn’t want that cross to bear? no. They both have probably fallen in love with their challenges. I know Mother did. It was hard for her to leave the network (read the book by Raymond Arroyo), but she had to do it.
We all have our crosses and we need to joyfully carry them. Mine currently is not knowing exactly where God wants me in life. I will carry that happily and keep doing what I’m doing (studying education) and will go where I feel him leading me, but will also keep close to Christ in the Eucharist.
Thats our goal- follow Christ, up the road to calvary. It won’t be easy, but it will be worth it.
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msproule
Guest
There are many different ways to handle a given situation. One is not always better than the others. In my opinion, the best results arise out of masterful use of various techniques acting in concert.
In both cases (locally in Saginaw and Universally at the Vatican) we are speaking in generalities, of course. The Holy Father may have written Deus Caritas Est, but he has also shown the strength of his arm in tackling other topics. So is it fair to say he is taking the “pastoral approach”? Sometimes? Yes. Always? Certainly not.
In both cases (locally in Saginaw and Universally at the Vatican) we are speaking in generalities, of course. The Holy Father may have written Deus Caritas Est, but he has also shown the strength of his arm in tackling other topics. So is it fair to say he is taking the “pastoral approach”? Sometimes? Yes. Always? Certainly not.
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bknebel
Guest
very true, MSProule.
I don’t think anyone can handle all situations the same way! But like you said, we were speaking in generalities.
I don’t think anyone can handle all situations the same way! But like you said, we were speaking in generalities.
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frommi
Guest
Here’s the thing…when the initial view people have is that someone (anyone) is being sent somewhere to “clean up”, thats going to create some harshness on all sides of the coin.
When I still read things like “he has to go promote a devotion and reverence for the Eucharist”, that makes my blood boil because my experience growing up there was that there was reverence and a deep understanding of the Eucharist.
When a statement is made “He’ll find holy priest”, thats upsetting because the priests that were part of my formation growing up WERE holy priests.
Do you know that I read a blog on the internet from a Sioux Falls Seminarian who said something like “Bishop Carlson got transferred to Saginaw, where they had a not so good Bishop”. For an 18 year old seminarian to say that is disconcerting, because it means that an inaccurate portrait of things has been painted about oh so much.
It’s interesting living in this big city…I get on public transport in the morning, and during the season I see Bishop Untener’s “Little books” everywhere…people using that as a devotional resource on their way to work to help their pray life…all over a metropolitan area…and yet a young seminarian has been told he was a “not so good bishop”.
It’s no secret that each local church has its challenges. For some its lack of vocations, for others its lack of funds, for still others its an explosion in sex abuse allegations…
But once again, the grenade throwing started early on in this conversation. It was offensive to hear Saginaw referred to as Calvary, because the reference seemed to be that Sioux Falls was utopia. How do people learn to know and love a shepherd who’s heart might be somewhere else? This is the question that I think the people of Saginaw and their bishop have been trying to answer for each other the last several months.
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bknebel
Guest
I can see where that seminarian was coming from. The only question against Bishop Untener was- why did abuses happen under his leadership? That is all anyone here is saying.
I have talked to several people across the Saginaw Diocese and it always comes back to the same thing- “We USED to have holy priests and USED to have Eucharistic Devotions…” Why don’t they say “We have…”?
I don’t know, I’m not there. I only know what others have said.
I do not wish to tarnish Bishop Untener and his little books. They are probably very good.
Calvary is a harsh thing to have your home referred to. There is a simple solution- clean up!
I have talked to several people across the Saginaw Diocese and it always comes back to the same thing- “We USED to have holy priests and USED to have Eucharistic Devotions…” Why don’t they say “We have…”?
I don’t know, I’m not there. I only know what others have said.
I do not wish to tarnish Bishop Untener and his little books. They are probably very good.
Calvary is a harsh thing to have your home referred to. There is a simple solution- clean up!
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frommi
Guest
Can I just say to you, as one voice, probably in the minority…
Saginaw does have holy priests…it has holy people…and the signs of the holy spirit moving among those people are intensely vibrant.
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singerlady
Guest
SOME of the priests in Saginaw are holy. Many are not. Some ought to be ashamed of the language they use and the way they treat people. People in our parish are begging for Eucharistic devotions. Ain’t happenin’ here.
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frommi
Guest
And I would suggest that SOME of the priests anywhere, any diocese are holy…so that’s not a unique situation.
The fervor for Eucharistic devotions confuses me quite a bit, since they really aren’t a longstanding part of our tradition. I’ve never understood why people wouldn’t ask more for the divine office to be prayed than for benediction.
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bknebel
Guest
I would assume its because when most of these people were growing up, it was the 40’s-early 60’s and Adoration was at a high in some parishes. 40 hours were pretty regular as was adoration and parish missions.
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