Bishop says "I will go to jail before I will obey," as California proposes law requiring priests to report to police what they heard in confession

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see "I will go to jail before I will obey" - California Catholic Daily

A new law being proposed in the California State Senate would require priests to report certain sins they heard in confession to the police. A California bishop is very outspoken about his refusal to obey it.

Even if this bill passes, no priest may obey it. The protection of your right to confess to God and have your sins forgiven in total privacy must be protected, he said to the people of his diocese.

I will go to jail before I will obey this…
…
The bill would require priests to tell the police knowledge or suspicion of child abuse gained during sacramental confessions.
 
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The same state which allows, even promotes the killing of children in the womb; the same state which pollutes their minds with absolute moral trash during their “education” is now concerned about sexual practices that it otherwise endorses or engages in?

Beam me up, Mr. Scott.
 
I fail to see how this bill will capture more abusers.

Those inclined to confess this will leave the state to do so.
 
Query: Let’s say I shoplift an ice cream sandwich from a convenience store. After eating the ice cream sandwich I become consumed with guilt. I go to my parish priest and confess. Why wouldn’t my priest require me - as an act of true contrition and penance - to go confess my crime to the store owner, pay for the sandwich, and perhaps expose myself to criminal charges? Could the priest require me to do this? Why wouldn’t he? Thanks all.
 
TULIPed said:
Why wouldn’t my priest require me - as an act of true contrition and penance - to go confess my crime to the store owner, pay for the sandwich, and perhaps expose myself to criminal charges? Could the priest require me to do this? Why wouldn’t he? Thanks all.
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We’ve been over this on many, many confession threads.

Priests CANNOT require a penitent to tell anyone anything about their confession or their sins. They CANNOT require it as a condition of absolution. They CANNOT require it as a penance. They CANNOT even suggest that you do it.

All they can do, if you’ve committed some really bad sin, is ask you to come and talk to them about it OUTSIDE confession, which conversation wouldn’t be protected by the seal.

But while hearing your confession,
They CANNOT require you or suggest that you tell law enforcement.
They CANNOT require you or suggest that you tell your spouse (for instance if you cheated).
They CANNOT require you or suggest that you tell your parents (for instance if you’re a minor).
Et cetera.
 
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“But it’s just one exception! Don’t you want to capture the child abusers?”

Of course it’s just one–until “just one more exception” is proposed. Just “just one more”.
Until there are enough exceptions to justify demanding that all confessions be turned over to the authorities.
 
On a purely secular note, this is likely a violation of the First Amendment.
 
TULIPed said:
Query: Let’s say I shoplift an ice cream sandwich from a convenience store. After eating the ice cream sandwich I become consumed with guilt. I go to my parish priest and confess. Why wouldn’t my priest require me - as an act of true contrition and penance - to go confess my crime to the store owner, pay for the sandwich, and perhaps expose myself to criminal charges? Could the priest require me to do this? Why wouldn’t he? Thanks all.
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The priest cannot explicitly require the person to reveal himself under canon law. However, if the priest does not feel the penitent is truly remorseful he can withhold absolution. If he thinks the person truly is repentant then he should not withhold absolution pending the person turning themselves in.
 
Thanks. Makes sense to me.

Would not an act of true remorse be to confess to authorities? Said another way - is it possible to be truly remorseful without subjecting yourself to the secular authorities? Paul says in Romans 13:

“Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.”
 
Yeah, sorry. Just got lazy on the search. Slothfulness is but one of my top deadly sins.
 
I would also say that anyone priest heading the confession of a person who admits to abusing a child should not give absolution to that person, unless that person confesses the crime and accepts punishment for that crime.
 
I disagree that they cannot suggest that you confess your sin to a spouse, parents or law enforcement. I have been told that they certainly can encourage that, especially if someone is being injured by the secrecy. But I agree that, from what I understand, they cannot require it for absolution.

I am open to correction on that, but I have heard priests say that they can recommend disclosure.
 
JoeShlabotnik said:
I would also say that anyone priest heading the confession of a person who admits to abusing a child should not give absolution to that person, unless that person confesses the crime and accepts punishment for that crime.
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That’s not the grounds for receiving absolution. A priest gives absolution if someone confesses the sin, expresses sorrow for the sin and has a firm purpose of amendment meaning they are going to avoid the sin in the future.

The priest cannot condition absolution on the person confessing the sin to a third party or “accepting responsibility” outside the confessional. It’s not permitted.

As said before in the thread, it is highly doubtful that people confess child sexual abuse in the confessional in any event, because they don’t regard it as a sin and are in denial that they even did anything wrong, and also don’t want anyone else to know, not even a priest in confession.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
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TULIPed:
Why wouldn’t my priest require me - as an act of true contrition and penance - to go confess my crime to the store owner, pay for the sandwich, and perhaps expose myself to criminal charges? Could the priest require me to do this? Why wouldn’t he? Thanks all.
Click to expand...
We’ve been over this on many, many confession threads.

Priests CANNOT require a penitent to tell anyone anything about their confession or their sins. They CANNOT require it as a condition of absolution. They CANNOT require it as a penance. They CANNOT even suggest that you do it.

All they can do, if you’ve committed some really bad sin, is ask you to come and talk to them about it OUTSIDE confession, which conversation wouldn’t be protected by the seal.

But while hearing your confession,
They CANNOT require you or suggest that you tell law enforcement.
They CANNOT require you or suggest that you tell your spouse (for instance if you cheated).
They CANNOT require you or suggest that you tell your parents (for instance if you’re a minor).
Et cetera.
Click to expand...
Correct! :+1:t3:
Otherwise the misunderstood argument about confessing your sins to a priest would then become a valid argument. As it is the confession is to God and it is God who absolves. Putting these requirements on the priest would sure give the non-Catholics true ammunition to use against the priesthood.

Peace!!!
 
Yes, I know it is a recurring thread topic on CAF. (I wonder why that is?)
But…
How would a priest telling someone go to the police as part of their penance prevent that priest granting absolution and completing the sacrament as normal?
How is that any different from some other act of contrition which the priest might suggest ?
 
Lion_IRC said:
Yes, I know it is a recurring thread topic on CAF. (I wonder why that is?)
But…
How would a priest telling someone go to the police as part of their penance prevent that priest granting absolution and completing the sacrament as normal?
How is that any different from some other act of contrition which the priest might suggest ?
Click to expand...
Because it requires the priest to mandate the penitent to break the seal, and priests are forbidden from using the knowledge they have to break it, which they are doing when they mandate it of a penitent. He’s also forbidden by canon law from using the knowledge to the detriment of the penitent.
 
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Wesrock said:
40.png
Lion_IRC:
Yes, I know it is a recurring thread topic on CAF. (I wonder why that is?)
But…
How would a priest telling someone go to the police as part of their penance prevent that priest granting absolution and completing the sacrament as normal?
How is that any different from some other act of contrition which the priest might suggest ?
Click to expand...
Because it requires the priest to mandate the penitent to break the seal, and priests are forbidden from using the knowledge they have to break it, which they are doing when they mandate it of a penitent. He’s also forbidden by canon law from using the knowledge to the detriment of the penitent.
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  1. The priest isn’t required
  2. The penitent isn’t mandated
  3. A supposed abuser going to the police doesn’t logically entail any violation of the seal.
  4. There is no detriment to anyone.
Please answer my question - how is it ok for a priest to tell me to say 10 Hail Marys as an act of contrition as if my absolution were conditional unless I did so?

ETA - I predict you will tell me my absolution isn’t conditional. (And I agree.) Therefore, a priest isn’t mandating anything when they say …please go and submit to secular authorities.
 
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bquinnan said:
I disagree that they cannot suggest that you confess your sin to a spouse, parents or law enforcement. I have been told that they certainly can encourage that, especially if someone is being injured by the secrecy. But I agree that, from what I understand, they cannot require it for absolution.

I am open to correction on that, but I have heard priests say that they can recommend disclosure.
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Same here.
The priest can give a valid sacrament of confession AND tell the penitent to…“reconcile quickly with your adversary, while you are still on the way to court.”
 
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